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Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire) => IWI Tavor SAR & X-95 => Topic started by: Gear Head on June 25, 2015, 07:06:30 PM



Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Gear Head on June 25, 2015, 07:06:30 PM
I have beaten many AR15 shooters in mag change speed. Some have been posted on Youtube as well as how I did it.

My Tavor has a forward assist.


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Gear Head on June 25, 2015, 07:34:59 PM

My Tavor has a forward assist.

I'm listening...

 :x-x ;)


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: freefallindan on June 25, 2015, 08:17:40 PM

This thread just got interesting....!


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Kevlar on June 25, 2015, 08:25:17 PM
Sgt. P.  -   ;D

Now back to business,  FA?

Someone make him talk!


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Gear Head on June 25, 2015, 08:30:56 PM
Now you guys realize why I've been so quiet on here for a while now.  ;D


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: TNC on June 25, 2015, 11:16:22 PM
I have beaten many AR15 shooters in mag change speed. Some have been posted on Youtube as well as how I did it.

My Tavor has a forward assist.

This guy is a loon but at least it can be called entertainment and distract us from the real world for a moment.

Well, obviously the circus is over now, but on your point about the reload/mag change on the Tavor is dead bang...entertaining video BTW.  Anyone who's really performed such with a Tavor and an AR will realize how well thought out a Tavor mag change can be.  This was the one area where the two instructors in that 2-day class I attended last week were actually impressed.  An AR mag change can be performed pretty darned quickly with enough training.  The Tavor just has a couple of its reload elements in a little better location.

And about the Tavor FA you speak of... ;D


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Gear Head on June 25, 2015, 11:51:32 PM
There has been a photo leaked accidentally by someone that has one. But I'm not telling who or where...


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: BullpupT on June 26, 2015, 07:04:24 AM
There has been a photo leaked accidentally by someone that has one. But I'm not telling who or where...

Please do tell about the FA on your Tavor. I have been trying to think up a way to mount a FA without major modification.


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Tj7 on June 26, 2015, 08:50:55 AM
I searched likely places on the Internet for this leaked photo to no avail! :'( I can't wait to see this.


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: freefallindan on June 26, 2015, 09:12:45 AM
I'm sure GH is waiting until his product is GTG before making the formal announcement, so we're on our own to speculate while he sits back and enjoys the show. And if there's a leaked picture floating out there in the darkweb, that means he's been field testing it out there below our very nose.  clever!

But speculate I will!  Five directions you can initiate a fwd assist from.  The side, like an AR; the top (no-go because of gas/optics); the bottom (unlikely because of all the other hardware already there); the front... plausible with some kind of single/dual charging-rod mech; or the back... quite possible if you can provide access directly to the rear of the BCG without interfering with the shooter's shouldering

go!


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Kevlar on June 26, 2015, 11:05:36 AM
If someone finds the leaked photo please share


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: RadScorpius on June 26, 2015, 01:05:48 PM
If someone finds the leaked photo please share

I'm not sure why everyone are so fired up about a forward assist, it jams a jammed round further.


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: jdwboy on June 26, 2015, 01:39:27 PM
The original M16 had no forward assist.  The reason they decided they needed one was :

A. wrong powder in ammo causing too much dirt.

B.  Barrel and chamber not chrome lined and in the humid environs of South VietNam there was a lot of corrosion which hindered chambering.

obviously with a piston driven action, chrome line barrel and good ammo, IWI, I'm sure after plenty of testing, decided it was like nipples on a boar hog.
 


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: TNC on June 26, 2015, 02:01:14 PM
If someone finds the leaked photo please share

I'm not sure why everyone are so fired up about a forward assist, it jams a jammed round further.

Your point is correct in regards to a "jammed" or otherwise snafu'd cartridge.  I think most of us in this case are referring to the press check or accidentally riding the charging handle where the bolt doesn't go into battery.  After using this rifle in a class where you're wearing body armor and have a 2-point sling, one "can" fumble the charging handle or have it drag back against something you're wearing to where a perfectly good cartridge is now not in battery...and you know why it's not in battery.  One can also bump the charging handle on cover or such do the same thing...knock the bolt out of battery.  These are extreme conditions of course, and something not normally found to occur in recreational shooting.  But in the cases where it can...and you know why the bolt and cartridge are not in battery due to an identifiable instance...then an FA is a nice feature.  I have no qualified specifics to back this up, but I would almost bet that a soldier somewhere, sometime may have saved his life with a FA.  But you're right also in that people can make a malfunction worse by improperly using the FA. 


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Tex78 on June 26, 2015, 05:07:55 PM
If someone finds the leaked photo please share

I'm not sure why everyone are so fired up about a forward assist, it jams a jammed round further.

After seeing my one and only malfunction with a Tavor go from bad to worse due to no FA, I would disagree.

Sure a Forward Assist, like a ejection seat or a fire extinguisher can be used improperly, but I'd rather have it than not. (Well maybe an ejection seat in my truck wouldn't be a good idea, but you get my drift)

ETA: I used to be one of those that didn't see the need for a FA on an AR15 either, years back.


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: larryz on June 27, 2015, 06:37:02 AM
Five directions you can initiate a fwd assist from.  The side, like an AR; the top (no-go because of gas/optics); the bottom (unlikely because of all the other hardware already there); the front... plausible with some kind of single/dual charging-rod mech; or the back... quite possible if you can provide access directly to the rear of the BCG without interfering with the shooter's shouldering

go!

I'm guessing that any mod that breaches the polymer frame would void your IWI warranty.



Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: WLJ on June 27, 2015, 09:04:14 AM
How about hard attaching the charging rod to the bolt in some way? Detachable for cleaning of course. Would thus making the charging handle reciprocating be a problem? Just something that just now popped into my head, haven't looked into what may be involved.


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: TNC on June 27, 2015, 10:28:04 AM
How about hard attaching the charging rod to the bolt in some way? Detachable for cleaning of course. Would thus making the charging handle reciprocating be a problem? Just something that just now popped into my head, haven't looked into what may be involved.

Making the Tavor or an AUG charging handle reciprocating might be death on many of its combat application benefits.  IMO you need to be able to disregard the CH to some degree when shooting from cover where you have the rifle stock braced or rested against something...like the edge of a building, a tree, a doorway, etc.  Yes, you can knock the Tavor out of battery by accidentally banging or pushing the CH while bracing the rifle against cover but having that CH flying back and forth up on the end of the handguard seems counterproductive just to obtain an FA by that method.  Most combat style rifles that I've seen with a reciprocating CH seem to have it in a less obtrusive location where it's less likely to come in contact with the shooter's hand or objects during bracing and firing.


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: WLJ on June 27, 2015, 10:47:03 AM
I agree, I should have made it clear that in no way shape or form have I seen a real need to actually have a FA on the Tavor. Seems like the IDF would have seen the need years ago  and the Tavor has been in service how long now?


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: pilot4prophet on June 27, 2015, 08:15:18 PM
Easiest implementation of the FA would be the off-side port cover. Saw a photo on face-book of some milling being done to the bolt carrier of a tavor, so I guess that's whats going on there. Not a drop in mod then.


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: boscoman on June 27, 2015, 08:27:34 PM
I agree, I should have made it clear that in no way shape or form have I seen a real need to actually have a FA on the Tavor. Seems like the IDF would have seen the need years ago  and the Tavor has been in service how long now?

I have to agree with you on this. If there was a need for a FA, I think IWI & the IDF would have done it years ago. I have close to 10K rounds through my tavor & have never felt or found a need for one.


Title: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: RadScorpius on June 29, 2015, 12:15:46 AM
I agree, I should have made it clear that in no way shape or form have I seen a real need to actually have a FA on the Tavor. Seems like the IDF would have seen the need years ago  and the Tavor has been in service how long now?

I have to agree with you on this. If there was a need for a FA, I think IWI & the IDF would have done it years ago. I have close to 10K rounds through my tavor & have never felt or found a need for one.

How does the bore/grouping look at that round count?


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: boscoman on June 29, 2015, 08:10:49 PM
How does the bore/grouping look at that round count?[/quote]

The same as when I first purchased the rifle I'm happy to say.
 In August another 1500 rounds will be used at a Magpul Carbine class.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: RadScorpius on June 30, 2015, 12:21:59 AM
How does the bore/grouping look at that round count?

The same as when I first purchased the rifle I'm happy to say.
 In August another 1500 rounds will be used at a Magpul Carbine class.
[/quote]

Nice, good to know that cold hammer forging and chroming can make a long lasting 5.56x45 barrel too.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: NWGlocker on June 30, 2015, 08:36:33 AM
There has been a photo leaked accidentally by someone that has one. But I'm not telling who or where...

I remember that photo! Have to say it looks really promising. Now I have to go back to that site to see if it's still there...

...yup, still there. ;)


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: twpayne75 on June 30, 2015, 10:49:45 AM
I have a picture of it saved. It is still posted in a very public place.

But I assume it they want it posted here they will do it.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: BullpupT on June 30, 2015, 12:08:03 PM
I have a picture of it saved. It is still posted in a very public place.

But I assume it they want it posted here they will do it.

I haven't been able to find it. Can you please PM with the picture. I am dying to see how it looks.


Title: Re:
Post by: Gear Head on June 30, 2015, 03:17:21 PM
If you have seen the photo you know it is part of something cool but isn't finished. So let's not ruin the surprise for everyone please.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Darkamek on June 30, 2015, 05:59:46 PM
If you look hard enough you can find it. It took me a while but I found it.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: brodband on June 30, 2015, 07:20:21 PM
I found the picture where you were milling into the carrier, but is there more pics out there?


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: ryokox3 on July 01, 2015, 07:00:54 PM
Maybe I'm missing something. I intentionally pulled back the charging handle to make it out of battery. Then I hit the back of the charging handle and it went back into battery.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: freefallindan on July 01, 2015, 07:17:53 PM
The spring is what puts it back in battery.  It's a pretty strong spring.  Try riding the bolt home slowly, it will leave a visible gap that you can see through the ejection port.

What you feel you're pushing against is a piece of the barrel near the front of the rifle that the charging handle levers against when you press it all the way forward


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: onetwentyish on July 03, 2015, 12:24:13 AM
Blowndeadline Customs.... Bobafet... GHW. Tavor Owners Group on facebook....
(http://i.imgur.com/rg9kLuc.jpg)


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: larryz on July 03, 2015, 09:59:18 AM
Nice.



Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Apache on July 03, 2015, 10:58:21 AM
I was just thinking that for thirty years I've shot AR's, AK's, HK's and tons of other weapons, not once have I ever needed to use a forward assist. I must be doing something wrong ...


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: brodband on July 03, 2015, 11:30:47 AM
Shoot suppressed 90 percent of the time and it will get dirty enough to want/need one, trust me.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Ded-Eye0311 on July 03, 2015, 02:00:36 PM
I just want to clarify what a forward assist used properly does. I carry an M16a4 on a daily basis. In sandy environments and dusty areas where you really don't want lubrication all over your action as it just attracts dust, dirt, and sand and creates a nice sludge in your action we typically run our rifles dry. The forward assist helps a sluggish action. Lets say you insert a magazine and rack the charging handle back and the action sticks before properly engaging the locking lugs you would then tap the forward assist to help fully lock the lugs in place. It is not intended to fix jams or jam anything further. I'm assuming we know the difference in a dirty or sluggish action and a true jam. In a true jam you would perform immediate action (tap the magazine, rack the bolt, and attempt to fire) not smack your forward assist and possibly make the problem worse as in a double feed or brass over bolt. If immediate action does not work then remedial action is needed. The FA just provides a quick fix when your round does not seat fully due to sluggish action or extreme carbon build up in your chamber. I hope this is not beating a dead horse or missing the point entirely. I feel knowing how to clear a jam and knowing the correct way to perform immediate action and remedial action with your specific weapon system eliminates the need for a forward assist in a tavor. Of course your specific situation would dictate the merits of a forward assist. Maybe you shoot a ton or run your weapon suppressed or maybe even carry your tavor as a duty weapon then I could see why you would want one. Just my humble two cents.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Kevlar on July 03, 2015, 03:32:15 PM
Agree with Ded eye

Have I used a FA on an AR platform?  Yes, in Iraq.  Same as the above mentioned.

Have I found a need for FA with the Tavor?  Not yet.  Exception being as a possible solution during a press check to ensure bolt is forward.  But, I just changed how I confirm a round in the chamber.  But I can see the potential value in a FA.

Couple things

I think it is awesome people come up with add ons and such for our Tavors.  Keep up the good work Gearhead, Manticore, MI, and others. Even if some don't see a need.  If everything depended on a "need" would we have half of what we own?  :)

That AR in Bobafet pattern camo made me smile


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: TNC on July 03, 2015, 04:00:13 PM
Good assessment on the FA, deadeye...especially as it applies to an AR.  I think the same can apply to a Tavor if shot enough or not cleaned soon enough...even with the Tavor not being direct impingement.  The other thing that can really benefit a Tavor IMO is where you use a Tavor in a combat/tactical scenario like in a tactical class or some SHTF apocalypse.  You bump that charging handle just a tiny bit against cover, drag the sling across it, or anything that bumps the CH, and you're out of business until you stroke the CH hard enough to put the bolt back in battery.  This is where Steyr has a small leg-up for that scenario.  The AUG CH will act as a FA and put the bolt back in battery.  

I've seen the comment about the IDF not needing a FA, so therefore other shooters don't need one.  Frankly, I'm surprised that a true battle rifle with a forward mounted, exposed CH doesn't have a FA.  Bumping that CH would be so easy to do in a go-all-to-heck war zone or battle environment.  When I used my Tavor in a recent 2-day tactical school, when we shot in cover situations through and around obstacles, I had to keep a close eye on where and how I moved that left side of my rifle.  Not the end of the world as long as you pay attention, but I think Gearhead's pursuit of a good FA is worth the effort.  Are we absolutely, positively sure that the real IDF model assigned to the field doesn't have some form of FA...or at least something that serves as such?  I can easily see an IDF guy in a crowded urban setting or clearing a building in a scenario where stealth/quiet is critical.  He gently bumps his CH on something in the dark and doesn't want or can't make the noise necessary to go back into battery with the CH.  That would suck somewhat.  Strictly recreational or bench shooters will probably never have a concern over this.  And trust me...I'm no IDF special operator...LOL!  Still...Steyr was probably wise to allow the CH to serve double duty as a FA.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: boscoman on July 03, 2015, 05:51:46 PM
The IDF models except for being select fire are no different than what we have, & no they do not have a forward assist.
As to needing one when the rifle gets dirty, the Tavor requires a bare minimum of lubrication and is pretty much designed for sandy environments. Not sure the same can be said for the AR/M16 platform.
For what it is worth, in my last carbine class at Academi, I never cleaned or lubricated the rifle. We also spent a number of hours in the pouring rain shooting allowing the carbon to get rather thick in the rifle. I never had a single issue in close to 2500 plus rounds & with full kit never had an issue with the charging handle getting hit & knocking the rifle out of battery. That's not to say it can't happen, but I've never heard of it happening including from my friends in the IDF that use the rifle.
That being said, if someone makes one & puts it on the market, well that's the joy of the hobby. Always something out there to add to one's toys. I just know it will not be anything that I will be adding to my 5.56 or 9mm Tavor, anymore than I would add one to my Galils, Garand, or M1A1.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Gear Head on July 03, 2015, 06:02:51 PM
The Galil, Garand and M1A1 all have a forward assist already in the form of a fixed, reciprocating, charging handle attached to the bolt carrier like many other battle rifles.

This isn't something for everyone obviously and I knew this going into it. The original FLEx design was actually this and I removed the FA feature simply because it wouldn't be a simple bolt on.

Personally I have experienced the handle being bumped or wanted to chamber check and my only solution was to rack it all the way back. Of course you lose a round in that case.

Would all this discussion even exist if the Tavor had come with one from the factory even if you never used it?


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: boscoman on July 03, 2015, 07:00:41 PM
Lets be honest here, besides the AR/M16 platform what combat rifles have a forward assist? The Tavor basically uses a AK long stroke piston system that simply doesn't need a forward assist. The fascination with turning every rifle into an AR15 is a bit ridiculous, as is constantly doing press checks. ARs have a forward assist because they are gas impingement weapons that long ago were advertised as not needing to be cleaned & had ammo with the wrong powder. The bottom line is that Tavor has been battle tested since 2001 by the IDF & over 22 other countries that use the system & haven't found a need for the forward assist.
As I stated before, the joy of the hobby is that you can constantly modify your toys, & if people want this add on, I'm sure as hell not going to tell them not to get one, but I don't see the need or the sense to it & I believe the IDF & others see it my way also.
BTW, everyone complains that the SCAR doesn't have a non reciprocating charging handle, & I've never seen anyone defend it by saying that you can use it as a forward assist.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: FredsFlavor on July 03, 2015, 07:08:48 PM
Kids,

I humped my M16A1 around Viet Nam in 1970 and did not have an FA nor did I need it. I went almost a year without cleaning it and it never jammed. I'm sure that if it were needed the IDF would have had it years ago in their use of it for the last 12 years. I have several AR's with it and have never used it any.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: TNC on July 03, 2015, 07:18:54 PM
Hey Gearhead...I have not studied schematics or torn down my AUG to see how Steyr accomplished their FA capability without a reciprocating CH.  I'd almost bet you studied it in your pursuit of the FA on a Tavor.  Was there any magic in how they achieved it?  Just curious.  

Hey fellow bullpup forum guys...I'm not a hater on the Tavor's lack of FA.  I would just like that box checked off for the worst case scenario.  I really consider these bullpups like the AUG and Tavor as realistic "you-bet-your-life" weapons.  While honestly not being a tin foil hat guy, current events here and around the world...and the potential they bring...make it worth having guns and training that you "might" have to resort to.  I have guns for hunting and plinking fun, but I just put the Tavor and AUG in a different class.  So Gearhead...keep plugging away. ;D


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Gear Head on July 03, 2015, 09:36:53 PM
The Aug FA is done by having notches turned into the operating rod that the charging handle uses to charge the weapon. The operating rod reciprocates and the handle does not. When forward assist is needed, the user pulls the handle back to where the rod has stopped it's forward motion. Then you push up and in on the handle to engage a pawl that locks the handle to the operating rod. Then you can just push it forward using the charging handle.

Prior to the M16, battle rifles had fixed charging handles on the bolt carriers that allowed them to function as a forward assist. Much like the SCAR and G36 among others do today. They just didn't call it a forward assist because it was simply the bolt handle. I have seen (and not condone) someone take a M1 Garand with old surplus ammo that did not want to chamber, lay down and put his foot against the rear of the handle and force it closed. He fired it. Then he had to put the butt on the ground and stomp the handle open to get the case to eject. He claimed that's how they have always done it. At the time I was young and he was old so I'm assuming he used that rifle in the service. Just I'm sure they called it "foot assist" back then.

There is also the finger notch forward assist you see on many subguns. I think the UMP and Scorpion has that. So the "forward assist" doesn't have to mean a specific mechanical device like the M16 and Aug, but just some way to help the bolt forward manually and is still being designed into new gun designs.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: TNC on July 03, 2015, 11:23:23 PM
Thanks for that description of the AUG CH/FA function.  It sounds clever and relatively simple at the same time.  One more question, and probably requires just pure speculation on your part...why do you think IWI didn't design a FA into their battle rifle?


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Gear Head on July 04, 2015, 05:14:47 PM
Thanks for that description of the AUG CH/FA function.  It sounds clever and relatively simple at the same time.  One more question, and probably requires just pure speculation on your part...why do you think IWI didn't design a FA into their battle rifle?

I have no idea. But the people at IWI that I've shown mine too was impressed.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: WLJ on July 04, 2015, 09:01:06 PM
Lets be honest here, besides the AR/M16 platform what combat rifles have a forward assist? The Tavor basically uses a AK long stroke piston system that simply doesn't need a forward assist. The fascination with turning every rifle into an AR15 is a bit ridiculous, as is constantly doing press checks. ARs have a forward assist because they are gas impingement weapons that long ago were advertised as not needing to be cleaned & had ammo with the wrong powder. The bottom line is that Tavor has been battle tested since 2001 by the IDF & over 22 other countries that use the system & haven't found a need for the forward assist.
Look at your AK again, it has a forward assist on it as do most rifles. The AK had a forward assist long before the AR-15 came along. It's the way the charging handle is design on the AR-15 and nothing to do with it being gas impingement as to why there's a separate FA.


The FA on your AK and most rifles  is usually called a bolt handle and/or charging handle.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Halmbarte on July 04, 2015, 10:15:44 PM
The FA on the F2000 is pretty nifty too.

The op rod has a notch cut in it, normally the notch isn't engaged. But when you pull the CH out (for better leverage) the CH can catch the notch on the op rod. So if you do need the forward assist function, it's automatic and doesn't require the user to know how to engage it.

The downside to any FA mechanism more complex than a reciprocating CH is complexity and fragility. Making the things so they work and are robust enough to handle the stress they are likely to see isn't easy. And every part you add is another failure point, more weight, and cost.

H


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Chuck S on July 05, 2015, 09:30:48 AM
Quote
I was just thinking that for thirty years I've shot AR's, AK's, HK's and tons of other weapons, not once have I ever needed to use a forward assist. I must be doing something wrong ...

Quote
Lets be honest here, besides the AR/M16 platform what combat rifles have a forward assist?

ALL combat rifles other than the Tavor seem to have some sort of forward assist.  If you've never need one you may have never press checked the rifle (to see of there's really a cartridge in there) or bumped the rifle hard enough to move the bolt out of battery.  Manual of arms with the US M1 and M14 rifles includes bumping the back of the op rod handle to ensure the bolt is closed. Couldn't happen with the XM16. 

The specification for the "new" us combat rifle back 50 (yep) years ago listed a reciprocating bolt handle as an undesirable feature. Original XM16 didn't have one, of course.  But without it there was no way to ensure the bolt was closed. 

Forcing the bolt closed on a bad cartridge has never been the primary purpose but when ya need a round ya need a round.

IDF is not a magic military force.  Nor are their weapons the state of the art we should all mimic.

I'm looking forward to a forward assist for my Tavor "even if I'll never need it."  ;)

-- Chuck



Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Apache on July 05, 2015, 01:49:58 PM
I'm still wondering how it's actually going to work. The only way I can see it being feasible is to somehow replace/modify the shell deflector. I don't see how the charging handle could be utilized as a FA. Just because I've never needed one in the past doesn't mean I'll never need one in the future ...

Pretty sure Paul just needs to post a pic of the prototype ...  >:D


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: TNC on July 05, 2015, 02:10:33 PM
I'm still wondering how it's actually going to work. The only way I can see it being feasible is to somehow replace/modify the shell deflector. I don't see how the charging handle could be utilized as a FA. Just because I've never needed one in the past doesn't mean I'll never need one in the future ...

Pretty sure Paul just needs to post a pic of the prototype ...  >:D

That pic of a modded ejection port cover block that was posted looks like the avenue he's going in...and darned...I recently bought his aluminum block to replace the plastic OEM unit. ;D


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Apache on July 05, 2015, 05:31:47 PM
That pic of a modded ejection port cover block that was posted looks like the avenue he's going in...and darned...I recently bought his aluminum block to replace the plastic OEM unit. ;D

Now the pic I found of the carrier being milled makes sense ...


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: l2a3 on July 14, 2015, 10:50:20 PM
Not having a "Hammer" yet and being an "old guy" and been around the gun world a few times, instead of a Forward Assist (FA), cut thumb/finger grooves/serrations on the bolt carrier that can be used to push the bolt carrier forward (to check closure) if desired as the IIRC HK 93 had.  That seems to be a easier remedy, but less costly and less CDI factor than adding a FA.


Title: Re:
Post by: Gear Head on July 15, 2015, 09:27:45 AM
That is a possibility. While it does provide a method, they aren't as easy to use.


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: poodle shooter on September 06, 2015, 07:52:59 PM
When will this FA ejection port cover be available?


Title: Re: Tavor forward assist (discussion split from another topic)
Post by: Gear Head on September 08, 2015, 12:37:30 AM
When will this FA ejection port cover be available?

It is being revised and tested. My goal is the end of the year.