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Author Topic: Kel-Tec RDB Stoppages :(  (Read 21379 times)
addison1203
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« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2015, 02:32:59 PM »

With the RDB doesn't the bolt have to travel farther back to eject the cartridge downward than it does to feed a new round off of the mag?  I've seen it mentioned a few places that the travel is very long.  Does that mean that procedure for adjusting the gas system would be different?
Are you suggesting that the spent casing IS being extracted, hauled back towards the ejection port but stopping short, and being re-inserted into the chamber along with a new round? That would mean not enough gas, right?



The spent casing is being extracted and fully ejected. Both rounds on the double feed are fresh rounds from the magazine.
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Worn
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« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2015, 04:40:31 PM »

The spent casing is being extracted and fully ejected. Both rounds on the double feed are fresh rounds from the magazine.
Yikes! At this point I have to fall back to: "Most feed problems are magazine related." But you've tried at least two already, yes?
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addison1203
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« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2015, 04:44:36 PM »

The spent casing is being extracted and fully ejected. Both rounds on the double feed are fresh rounds from the magazine.
Yikes! At this point I have to fall back to: "Most feed problems are magazine related." But you've tried at least two already, yes?


I've tried 3 different PMAGs, both Gen2 and Gen3. I doubt it's mag-related.
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TNC
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« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2015, 08:01:47 PM »

I'm no expert by any means on the RDB, but I do have an RFB.  There is often a problem with rifles that have adjustable gas system for shooters not familiar with tuning them.  I have three semiautos that have adjustable gas, two of which I converted as adjustable via a gas block...AR15 and AR10.  I love adjustable gas systems, but they can cause a little heartburn for lots of shooters.  I think this has been the Achilles heel of the RFB.  It has so much finite gas adjustability and such a large range that many have had a hard time getting a handle on the proper setting for a given ammo category.  Not sure if this is what the OP is experiencing with his RDB, but it sounds possible.

The double feed issue can be attributed to the gas system being "overgassed".  Regardless of ammo, if the gas system...DI or in the case of the RDB, a piston system...is allowing too much gas to push the oprod or BCG too quickly, while your cartridge case is still expanded in the chamber during firing...a normal requirement for optimum bullet performance...the extractor and bolt can come off the cartridge, go to full rearward position, and then strip off a new round for chambering...obviously to have nowhere to go but jammed up behind the expended case that's still lodged in the chamber.  OP, I may have missed it in the text and pics, but is that case that's still in the chamber a fired/spent case?  When you remove that spent case/bullet, what does the case look like?  Is the extractor rim on the case aggressively marred, torn, or damaged?  Not getting see or experience your situation as it occurs, I'm somewhat just shooting in the dark here...pun intended.

The case in the chamber is an unfired round. Both of the rounds in the double feed are in good condition.

Wow!...that one is out of my league for any guesstimate of cause.  Double feeds of live ammo are almost universally diagnosed by real experts at over 99% in the magazine.  I can only speculate that something in the operation of the unique downward ejection system is contributing to this if it's not mag related.  But again, I don't know enough about the exact operation of the RDB.  I'd really like to see one broken down side-by-side to my RFB to check design similarities and differences.  My RFB has something more likely described as an upward ejection system even though the cases are pushed forward out of the chassis.  The cases go up at an angle, however, before they're pushed forward.  I'd like to eventually see the RDB setup.
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signkutter
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« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2015, 12:04:53 PM »

The spent casing is being extracted and fully ejected. Both rounds on the double feed are fresh rounds from the magazine.
Yikes! At this point I have to fall back to: "Most feed problems are magazine related." But you've tried at least two already, yes?


I've tried 3 different PMAGs, both Gen2 and Gen3. I doubt it's mag-related.

You said your jams consisted of one unfired round in the chamber and two unfired rounds jammed in the receiver.  I caused those same exact stoppages with a setting on the piston not allowing enough gas to cycle the bolt properly.
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addison1203
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« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2015, 12:16:55 PM »

The spent casing is being extracted and fully ejected. Both rounds on the double feed are fresh rounds from the magazine.
Yikes! At this point I have to fall back to: "Most feed problems are magazine related." But you've tried at least two already, yes?


I've tried 3 different PMAGs, both Gen2 and Gen3. I doubt it's mag-related.

You said your jams consisted of one unfired round in the chamber and two unfired rounds jammed in the receiver.  I caused those same exact stoppages with a setting on the piston not allowing enough gas to cycle the bolt properly.

The jam is just two rounds: one in the chamber and one stuck in the barrel lugs. I should be able to get to the range again tomorrow to see if it's a gas problem.
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Bennanias
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« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2015, 09:23:04 PM »

I just received my own rdb and was having this exact same issue ( failure to eject, double feeds, and the very weird triple feed). I turned the gas 90 degrees to the left ( it indexes every 90 degrees), far more than enough gas, but no more problems. I slowly was able to dial down the gas, somewhere at about 45 degrees to the left more gas than how it shipped. Sights died then, so i dont know where the right amount is yet. I was shooting 65 grain.
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signkutter
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« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2015, 07:38:03 AM »

I just received my own rdb and was having this exact same issue ( failure to eject, double feeds, and the very weird triple feed). I turned the gas 90 degrees to the left ( it indexes every 90 degrees), far more than enough gas, but no more problems. I slowly was able to dial down the gas, somewhere at about 45 degrees to the left more gas than how it shipped. Sights died then, so i dont know where the right amount is yet. I was shooting 65 grain.
Ditto on my RDB except mine worked great OTB, I screwed with the gas settings.
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addison1203
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« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2015, 02:55:27 PM »

Update:

I went to the range yesterday and it was just the gas settings. I'm glad that's all it was. It's my first gun with adjustable gas. Seems like more of a hassle than it's worth.
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« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2015, 06:28:29 PM »

Update:

I went to the range yesterday and it was just the gas settings. I'm glad that's all it was. It's my first gun with adjustable gas. Seems like more of a hassle than it's worth.
Hardly. The alternative is to be over-gassed like most ARs. Be happy that you've a gun that allows you to  minimize felt recoil because it is adjustable.
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TNC
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« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2015, 07:23:55 PM »

Good to know it was just the gas adjustment.  Like I said in my first post on the first page, some of the RFB .308 woes are due to misadjustment of the gas.  It's a good thing to have adjustments for potential suppressor use and just about any ammo short of black powder cap-and-ball level quality...LOL!  Glad you got it figured out.
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tf2addict
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« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2016, 12:08:34 AM »

Does the manual explain the need to adjust the gas setting when the rifle is new?
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« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2016, 04:45:32 PM »

With any adjustable gas rifle, it's a good idea to adjust the gas when you change ammo. Do you know what ammo they used at the factory to test fire? If not, then one should adjust gas for whatever ammo you use first time out.

If one is not interested in, much less eager to, adjust gas properly, one shouldn't be using an adjustable gas weapon.
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signkutter
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« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2016, 09:23:03 PM »

Does the manual explain the need to adjust the gas setting when the rifle is new?

It doesnt even tell you how to adjust the gas in the manual IIRC.  But it is a good idea to go through a gas setting procedure just to get familiar with the settings/gas rate of your adjustment increments. Check if gas can be shut off completely.
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Aeneas2020
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« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2016, 09:31:05 PM »

With any adjustable gas rifle, it's a good idea to adjust the gas when you change ammo. Do you know what ammo they used at the factory to test fire? If not, then one should adjust gas for whatever ammo you use first time out.

If one is not interested in, much less eager to, adjust gas properly, one shouldn't be using an adjustable gas weapon.

Per the manual the rifles were tested and tuned to work with M193 ammunition. It then goes into a full page description of how to adjust the gas settings.
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signkutter
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« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2016, 12:23:23 AM »

With any adjustable gas rifle, it's a good idea to adjust the gas when you change ammo. Do you know what ammo they used at the factory to test fire? If not, then one should adjust gas for whatever ammo you use first time out.

If one is not interested in, much less eager to, adjust gas properly, one shouldn't be using an adjustable gas weapon.

Per the manual the rifles were tested and tuned to work with M193 ammunition. It then goes into a full page description of how to adjust the gas settings.
I must have missed it.  To tell the truth, I barely skimmed the manual. I took it apart right away ..messed with it and slapped it together and started shooting.  I have adjustable gas block equipped rifles and I already know how to adjust them... so I guess I didn't look too hard.
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waffenmeister
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« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2018, 09:20:28 AM »

I have registered just to participate this thread
So far i am one of six RDB owners in Ukraine so everything has to be explored without much prior experience inside the Ukraine RDB community.and here is what I have found out on regards to this issue:
I have tried loading 223 with Gw 2. gunpowder with weights from 1.15 gram to 1.4 gram.  Bullets from 55gr to 80gr
Issue with double load sources not from the case type, gas piston opening or bullet types but rather from the gun powder speed and load.
Fully open piston works with 1.15 gram load, but if you use 1.2-1.3 gram load, then you will have issue which is being fixed when gunpowder load exceeds 1.3 grams
2 clicks to minus Starts ejecting from 1.24 grams  and double feed starts from 1.3 grams and being fixed with 1.35 gram load.
4 clicks to minus Starts ejecting from 1.30 grams and double feed starts from 1.33 grams and being fixed with 1.38 gram load.
6 clicks to minus Starts ejecting from 1.35 grams and double feed starts from 1.37 grams and being fixed with 1.40 gram load.

Of course this double feed gap depends on gunpowder type.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 09:24:52 AM by waffenmeister » Logged
HBeretta
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« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2018, 05:20:06 PM »

Update:
It's my first gun with adjustable gas. Seems like more of a hassle than it's worth.

oh no sir...quite the opposite; maybe in time you'll appreciate the gas tuning.
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