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Author Topic: Kel-Tec RDB Stoppages :(  (Read 22286 times)
addison1203
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« on: December 05, 2015, 08:19:00 PM »

Picked up a RDB from my LGS this week and got out to the range today to shoot it. I made it through 15 rounds of Wolf Gold before I ran into an issue. After firing a round, I pulled the trigger and just heard "click," so I dropped the mag and checked the action to find that I had one unfired round about 3/4 of the way into the breech with the bullet of a second round jammed into the side of the breech. I had to use pliers to get it out, it was so forcefully lodged that pulling on the brass actually separated the brass and bullet. After finally getting the bullet out and the other cartridge I resumed firing. Made it through the rest of that PMAG and switched to another PMAG and a few rounds in I had another identical misfeed. After finally dislodging that one I switched to another PMAG with steel cased Wolf. A few rounds in I had the same issue again. Other than the obvious issues I liked the downward ejection but disliked the relative inaccessibility of the action.

Pictures for reference.


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* IMG_0706.JPG (1848.6 KB, 4032x3024 - viewed 713 times.)

* IMG_0707.JPG (1670.67 KB, 4032x3024 - viewed 687 times.)
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Frostburg
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2015, 11:11:38 AM »

Yeah, there have been reports that the RDB doesn't like
steel cased ammo, which is fine by me because I only use
brass casings due to the various problems I frequently hear
about steel cased ammo.
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VASCAR2
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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2015, 11:18:17 AM »

Just curious if you cleaned and lubed the rifle before going to the range.  I wonder if the rifle could have been short stroking ( bolt not traveling far enough to the rear).  Did you consider changing the gas setting.  On rifles with adjustable gas blocks I load one round with an empty mag.  I fire the round and keep opening the gas setting till the bolt locks back on an empty mag.
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Rick53
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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2015, 01:09:41 PM »

Yeah, there have been reports that the RDB doesn't like
steel cased ammo, which is fine by me because I only use
brass casings due to the various problems I frequently hear
about steel cased ammo.
Wolf gold isn't steel cased He said the brass separated :
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Rick53
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« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2015, 01:11:41 PM »

Just curious if you cleaned and lubed the rifle before going to the range.  I wonder if the rifle could have been short stroking ( bolt not traveling far enough to the rear).  Did you consider changing the gas setting.  On rifles with adjustable gas blocks I load one round with an empty mag.  I fire the round and keep opening the gas setting till the bolt locks back on an empty mag.
Good point My gas setting was messed up when I first got it. I just assumed someone at the store had turned it.
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Snapperhead363
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« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2015, 01:24:06 PM »

Man, That sucks. I've never touched my gas setting and it runs Steel and Brass. It also ran 100% right out of the box. No lube or cleaning. I've since tore it down 4 times to clean and lube it. Still no problems. chin scratching
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addison1203
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2015, 02:24:28 PM »

Thanks for the replies guys. I didn't clean it or adjust the gas system before taking it out to the range. I gave it a thorough cleaning when I got back from the range yesterday and found that it was well lubed but had a fair number of grains of something throughout the rifle (I guess from the manufacturing plant.) I'm pretty sure that on the only mag that I did finish it held open on the last shot but next time I'll try VASCAR2's suggested method to make sure the gas is set correctly.

Hopefully I'll have a chance to get to the range sometime this week. I'll be sure to post an update.
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signkutter
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2015, 07:20:02 PM »

Strange that it is picking up 2 rounds at a time.  I messed with the gas settings on mine to intentionally cause problems...but i never got a double feed. i did get failure to eject and jammed up brass but that was as easy to clear as dropping the mag, locking the bolt back and re-inserting the mag. Check your mags arent letting loose rounds
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addison1203
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2015, 07:26:24 PM »

Strange that it is picking up 2 rounds at a time.  I messed with the gas settings on mine to intentionally cause problems...but i never got a double feed. i did get failure to eject and jammed up brass but that was as easy to clear as dropping the mag, locking the bolt back and re-inserting the mag. Check your mags arent letting loose rounds

From what I've read, double feeds are usually mag related. In this case, however, I had the same problem even though I was using 3 different mags. 2 Gen3 PMAGS (including the 20-rounder that came with the rifle) and 1 Gen2 PMAG. The 30-round PMAGs have been performing flawlessly in my ARs. With that said, it seems to be a rifle problem and probably not mag related.
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War_angel
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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2015, 09:52:27 PM »

could still be mag related some mags work better in some rifles then they do in other


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addison1203
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2015, 06:22:40 PM »

UPDATE

I took the RDB out again today after thoroughly cleaning it. I made it through the first 18 rounds of the 20-round Gen3 PMAG that came with the rifle before I had another double feed. I brought the wrong set of pliers (you need really thin needle-nose to access the action) so I was unable to clear the jam. Bummer, I guess I'll call Kel-Tec this week and see what they say.
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BullpupT
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« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2015, 01:42:41 AM »

The lack of access to the chamber and the need for pliers to remove a double feed are the exact issues I was concerned about. There is a nice long review with a pretty brutal mud test. The gun failed as I suspect most would in such a brutal, cement like mud test. The problem I had wasn't with the jams in the video, it was with the need to disassemble the rifle just to clear a jam.

Maybe the wolf stuff is underpowered. I though the wold gold stuff was up to nato velocities even though it's marked .223

Thanks for posting.
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signkutter
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« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2015, 02:01:55 PM »

UPDATE

I took the RDB out again today after thoroughly cleaning it. I made it through the first 18 rounds of the 20-round Gen3 PMAG that came with the rifle before I had another double feed. I brought the wrong set of pliers (you need really thin needle-nose to access the action) so I was unable to clear the jam. Bummer, I guess I'll call Kel-Tec this week and see what they say.

Did you reboot the gas system to zero and adjust it?

1. Shut off gas ( piston closed)
2   dail out 2 clicks
3. insert one round mag on an empty chambered gun
4. chamber up and fire round
5. check to see if you get  "Bolt hold open" position
6 if not BHO position , open up piston one more click and repeat steps 3 thru 5 until you do.
7. when you acheive BHO, adjust the piston one more click open.

See if that alleviates the feeding problem ( If you havent tried it already)
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addison1203
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2015, 02:11:06 PM »

UPDATE

I took the RDB out again today after thoroughly cleaning it. I made it through the first 18 rounds of the 20-round Gen3 PMAG that came with the rifle before I had another double feed. I brought the wrong set of pliers (you need really thin needle-nose to access the action) so I was unable to clear the jam. Bummer, I guess I'll call Kel-Tec this week and see what they say.

Did you reboot the gas system to zero and adjust it?

1. Shut off gas ( piston closed)
2   dail out 2 clicks
3. insert one round mag on an empty chambered gun
4. chamber up and fire round
5. check to see if you get  "Bolt hold open" position
6 if not BHO position , open up piston one more click and repeat steps 3 thru 5 until you do.
7. when you acheive BHO, adjust the piston one more click open.

See if that alleviates the feeding problem ( If you havent tried it already)

I was going to try adjusting the gas yesterday, but since I wasn't able to clear the first jam I didn't get to try it. If I have a chance to get to the range this week I'll see if that fixes it.
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signkutter
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2015, 10:39:41 PM »

UPDATE

I took the RDB out again today after thoroughly cleaning it. I made it through the first 18 rounds of the 20-round Gen3 PMAG that came with the rifle before I had another double feed. I brought the wrong set of pliers (you need really thin needle-nose to access the action) so I was unable to clear the jam. Bummer, I guess I'll call Kel-Tec this week and see what they say.

Did you reboot the gas system to zero and adjust it?

1. Shut off gas ( piston closed)
2   dail out 2 clicks
3. insert one round mag on an empty chambered gun
4. chamber up and fire round
5. check to see if you get  "Bolt hold open" position
6 if not BHO position , open up piston one more click and repeat steps 3 thru 5 until you do.
7. when you acheive BHO, adjust the piston one more click open.

See if that alleviates the feeding problem ( If you havent tried it already)

I was going to try adjusting the gas yesterday, but since I wasn't able to clear the first jam I didn't get to try it. If I have a chance to get to the range this week I'll see if that fixes it.

I think that will likely fix your rifle. When i messed with my rifle to get a feel for  malfunctions, they sounded alot like what your rifle is doing( except for the need for pliers, my stoppages were cleared out with a finger at most).  But I got double feeds,  failure to eject brass, i even got a few triple feeds.  After i adjusted the gas properly the misfeeds quit 100%
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Worn
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« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2015, 08:30:13 PM »

Picked up a RDB from my LGS this week and got out to the range today to shoot it. I made it through 15 rounds of Wolf Gold before I ran into an issue. After firing a round, I pulled the trigger and just heard "click," so I dropped the mag and checked the action to find that I had one unfired round about 3/4 of the way into the breech with the bullet of a second round jammed into the side of the breech.

Seems to me that if the bolt is going back far enough to get a new round, the previous casing should have been extracted long before. My guess is extractor trouble or a too-tight chamber. I'd be checking those extractors.
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MtBkCz
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2015, 11:50:54 AM »

With the RDB doesn't the bolt have to travel farther back to eject the cartridge downward than it does to feed a new round off of the mag?  I've seen it mentioned a few places that the travel is very long.  Does that mean that procedure for adjusting the gas system would be different?
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TNC
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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2015, 12:22:31 PM »

I'm no expert by any means on the RDB, but I do have an RFB.  There is often a problem with rifles that have adjustable gas system for shooters not familiar with tuning them.  I have three semiautos that have adjustable gas, two of which I converted as adjustable via a gas block...AR15 and AR10.  I love adjustable gas systems, but they can cause a little heartburn for lots of shooters.  I think this has been the Achilles heel of the RFB.  It has so much finite gas adjustability and such a large range that many have had a hard time getting a handle on the proper setting for a given ammo category.  Not sure if this is what the OP is experiencing with his RDB, but it sounds possible.

The double feed issue can be attributed to the gas system being "overgassed".  Regardless of ammo, if the gas system...DI or in the case of the RDB, a piston system...is allowing too much gas to push the oprod or BCG too quickly, while your cartridge case is still expanded in the chamber during firing...a normal requirement for optimum bullet performance...the extractor and bolt can come off the cartridge, go to full rearward position, and then strip off a new round for chambering...obviously to have nowhere to go but jammed up behind the expended case that's still lodged in the chamber.  OP, I may have missed it in the text and pics, but is that case that's still in the chamber a fired/spent case?  When you remove that spent case/bullet, what does the case look like?  Is the extractor rim on the case aggressively marred, torn, or damaged?  Not getting see or experience your situation as it occurs, I'm somewhat just shooting in the dark here...pun intended.
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addison1203
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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2015, 12:25:52 PM »

I'm no expert by any means on the RDB, but I do have an RFB.  There is often a problem with rifles that have adjustable gas system for shooters not familiar with tuning them.  I have three semiautos that have adjustable gas, two of which I converted as adjustable via a gas block...AR15 and AR10.  I love adjustable gas systems, but they can cause a little heartburn for lots of shooters.  I think this has been the Achilles heel of the RFB.  It has so much finite gas adjustability and such a large range that many have had a hard time getting a handle on the proper setting for a given ammo category.  Not sure if this is what the OP is experiencing with his RDB, but it sounds possible.

The double feed issue can be attributed to the gas system being "overgassed".  Regardless of ammo, if the gas system...DI or in the case of the RDB, a piston system...is allowing too much gas to push the oprod or BCG too quickly, while your cartridge case is still expanded in the chamber during firing...a normal requirement for optimum bullet performance...the extractor and bolt can come off the cartridge, go to full rearward position, and then strip off a new round for chambering...obviously to have nowhere to go but jammed up behind the expended case that's still lodged in the chamber.  OP, I may have missed it in the text and pics, but is that case that's still in the chamber a fired/spent case?  When you remove that spent case/bullet, what does the case look like?  Is the extractor rim on the case aggressively marred, torn, or damaged?  Not getting see or experience your situation as it occurs, I'm somewhat just shooting in the dark here...pun intended.

The case in the chamber is an unfired round. Both of the rounds in the double feed are in good condition.
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Worn
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« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2015, 02:30:12 PM »

With the RDB doesn't the bolt have to travel farther back to eject the cartridge downward than it does to feed a new round off of the mag?  I've seen it mentioned a few places that the travel is very long.  Does that mean that procedure for adjusting the gas system would be different?
Are you suggesting that the spent casing IS being extracted, hauled back towards the ejection port but stopping short, and being re-inserted into the chamber along with a new round? That would mean not enough gas, right?

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