Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 26, 2017, 08:37:13 PM
Home Home Help Calendar Login Register
News:

Please support BullpupForum.com sponsors!!
. . . Midwest Industries . . . BullpupArmory.com . . . Shooting Sight . . . BullpupUnlimited.com . . . Homeland Guns . . . . . . . . . . . . AB Arms . . . GallowayPrecision.com . . . K & M Arms . . . . . . Geissele Automatics
+  BULLPUP FORUM
|-+  Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire)
| |-+  Kel-Tec RFB, RDB, M-43 (Moderator: Ronmar)
| | |-+  RDB thoughts?
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Print
Author Topic: RDB thoughts?  (Read 11611 times)
Frostburg
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,381


« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2015, 11:26:48 PM »

Ok, so I have a question for any RDB owners
since it's been some time since it's come out,
and you guys probably have considerable time behind the rifle.
I'm trying to ask around and get a good consensus of RDB owner's
opinions regarding this rifle.

Would you recommend this rifle for "serious" use?

I have read about the RDBs merits, and it seems to
me to be a serious contender as a serious rifle.

It's lightweight. I would rather hump a lighter rifle over longer distances,
It has good handling characteristics, seems to be reasonably accurate, at least more so
than the Tavor. Reasonably reliable, maybe not Tavor durable, but more so than many
ARs which are kept for serious use.

I have not handled the RDB, but based on what I've read thus far, I see
no reason why a person wouldn't want to depend their life on this rifle,
even if that means "running to the hills" with it.

What are your thoughts, and can you offer reasons why?
Logged
Snapperhead363
Global Moderator
Bullpup Fanatic
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,475



« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2015, 11:38:38 PM »

So far I have 600+ rounds through mine. No issues unsuppressed or suppressed,steel cased or brass. I haven't put it "head to head" against my Tavor. I like them both and I'd probably grab whichever is closest.
Logged

NRA Life Member   Bullpup Fanatic Glock Armorer  Owner of Homeland Guns.1-740-820-GUNS
odie64
.
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 32


« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2015, 10:11:58 PM »

I am running n Eotech XPS3  on my RFB. I installed the Kel Tec oversized charging handled have the optic mounted at the front of the picatinny rail.  I have no interference problems.
Logged
Frostburg
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,381


« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2015, 06:47:31 PM »

I am running n Eotech XPS3  on my RFB. I installed the Kel Tec oversized charging handled have the optic mounted at the front of the picatinny rail.  I have no interference problems.

Do you mean RFB or RDB?
Logged
odie64
.
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 32


« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2015, 07:14:58 PM »

RFB sorry I was Tired and thought  it was RFB and Not RDB. I have a RFB
Logged
tf2addict
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 128


« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2016, 11:57:08 PM »

From the reviews I've seen, esp. on AR15.com,
the RDB is probably a cut above the Tavor.

It's lighter, more accurate, has a better trigger.
It seems to be very reliable.

The Tavor is supremely reliable, but isn't as
accurate, and doesn't have as good of a trigger.

From what I've been reading, the RDB might trump
the Tavor as a go to rifle.

Where did you the idea that the Tavor is less accurate?  From what I've read the RDB is barely a 3 MOA gun.  And the stock Tavor trigger can always be improved.
Logged
Aeneas2020
^
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 40



« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2016, 03:24:41 PM »

I guess i'll jump in here seeing as it's my review on ar15.com.

First let me say that I am a huge tavor fan and no the RDB will not be replacing my tavor any time soon.

Let me also say, prior to the RDB, I loathed Kel-Tec and actively tried to dissuade people from buying their products. However I am also a huge bullpup guy so when I saw the RDB i decided to roll the dice.

Do I think the RDB is a better rifle? No I don't....it's lighter, has a better stock trigger and has been nothing but reliable for me in the 3 months i've owned one.

The guys at in range did a good mud test on it. I've only done some through the woods testing but I haven't had any stoppages. I did have to adjust my gas settings to cycle steel cased ammo but other than that it has been a trooper.

I can only speak from my own personal experience but the RDB has proved to be more accurate than my tavor. I am running a TAV-D trigger in my Tavor and I can get 2-3" groups. I am probably about .5" better with the RDB. I an effort to be fair I have always taken them out side by side and shot them with the same ammo, optics etc. It could be that the RDB just works better for my shooting from a bench or prone, but like I said I have been getting better groups with the RDB.

I will also say that the rifle doesn't feel flimsy or like some of the other, frankly questionable, products I have seem from Kel tec, so for whatever that is worth it is a check mark in my book. The rifle feels solid and well made.

NOW

Having said all of that if I had to pick one i would still take the Tavor (I said all of these things in my prelim review). Why? The short answer is total ruggedness, proven history and the fact that the rifle feels like I could throw it off a cliff and it wouldn't miss a beat. My tavor is the equivalent of my dog in terms of rifles. It will always be my best rifle buddy and my go to but the RDB is a serious contender.

Sorry for the rambling post. The review i posted on the other site is more technical and objective. In any case those my thoughts.
Logged
signkutter
.
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 82


« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2016, 09:39:35 PM »

From the reviews I've seen, esp. on AR15.com,
the RDB is probably a cut above the Tavor.

It's lighter, more accurate, has a better trigger.
It seems to be very reliable.

The Tavor is supremely reliable, but isn't as
accurate, and doesn't have as good of a trigger.

From what I've been reading, the RDB might trump
the Tavor as a go to rifle.

Where did you the idea that the Tavor is less accurate?  From what I've read the RDB is barely a 3 MOA gun.  And the stock Tavor trigger can always be improved.

Not true. I can get 2 MOA out of my RDB if I am careful to keep weight off the handguard when shooting prone. The best I have done with a Tavor is about 3 moa. With an AUG, I would get 2.5 moa. The guys on In-Range shot the RDB all wrong and thus couldn't get a good group, not that 3 moa is terrible for a semi-auto non free-float barrel with a pencil profile, that is actually decent. They also did a ridiculous mud test that even stops AK's ( surprisingly the AR15 does great in the same test)...so I don't hold that "caught in mudslide test" against the RDB

The only thing that would give pause in choosing an RDB over a Tavor as a long term SHTF gun is the availability of replacement parts and aftermarket support.  I have found the RDB to be a better performer in every aspect of  actual shooting performance over the Tavor and the AUG.  These reasons are why:

1. Better trigger than either the Tavor or the AUG (the Tavor can match the trigger with a $350 upgrade)
2. Way better suppression host than either the Tavor or the AUG ( much less gas face and more quiet)
3. RDB is slimmer and lighter than the Tavor or the AUG
4. The RDB is considerably cheaper than the AUG or the Tavor
Logged
tf2addict
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 128


« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2016, 03:29:55 AM »

Every review I've seen so far shows 2.5 to 3 MOA for the RDB.  I think the beats that.
Logged
Aeneas2020
^
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 40



« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2016, 02:01:38 PM »

Every review I've seen so far shows 2.5 to 3 MOA for the RDB.  I think the beats that.

I assume you meant I think the Tavor beats that? Like i said i've done accuracy testing with both and i've posted reviews. I even summarized above. If you are ever in NE and want to shoot the two side by side be my guest.
Logged
signkutter
.
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 82


« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2016, 01:29:49 PM »

Every review I've seen so far shows 2.5 to 3 MOA for the RDB.  I think the beats that.

Wrong. At best...the tavor can match the RDB in accuracy.... and that is only after an expensive trigger upgrade. The Tavor is a solid and reliable weapon but people seem to exaggerate the capabilities of it in order to validate their choice of weapon.
Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,734



« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2016, 03:15:42 AM »

. . . The review i posted on the other site is more technical and objective. In any case those my thoughts.

A worthwhile read:
(http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/453235_Keltec_RDB_Review__Final_Update_Page_6____Details_on_Pages_1_and_3.html)






Logged
HBeretta
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 574



« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2016, 01:37:33 AM »

So i've got about a 500 rnds through mine and thought i'd share my thoughts in comparison to other bullpups i've shot and own.  I realize there seems to be ongoing debate about kel-tec's reputation and quality of products.  fortunately, thus far (*knocks on wood), i have yet to experience issues with regard to functionality and quality; notice i've left out reliability as i have yet to even break in the gun.  to start, i'll just go ahead and say it, i'm impressed with the gun.  the salt bath nitriding on the barrel is extremely well done.  it's much nicer than my fs2000 manganese phosphate finish(parkerized) CHF/CL barrel which typically goes dull due to heat and lack of lubrication.  i mean i basically dip the end of my fs2000 in lube after a range session, well not really but you get the point.  anyway, this attention to quality appears to carry over to other facets of the gun, from the pattern on the handguard and grip to the retractable charging handle that cycles smoothly when chambering a round to locking the bolt open.  the rubberized stock face is a nice touch if you're used to budget ARs that don't include a stock buffer and instead have hard textured plastic digging into your shoulder.  long story short the rifle appears to have above average build quality.  the gun also breaks down easily by just removing two pins.  all you remove is the bolt carrier assembly which basically is an all in one gas piston, bolt assembly and recoil spring.  it's so simple to clean and doesn't take much...you basically scrub the bolt and carrier with solvent then lightly oil bolt and sides of carrier that slide back and forth inside receiver brackets and that's it.  although, i've shot 500 rnds in my gun it's still super clean and have only cleaned the bore after each range session.  before this post gets ridiculously long i'll try to be brief and concise from here on out.  the more you handle the gun to more you realize it's more ergonomic and comfortable to handle than fs2000, tavor and steyr aug.  simply put it just feels better to shoulder and is very balanced and light.  i'm not criticizing the fs2000, tavor or steyr aug as i feel they're all comfortable.  but, for me, the rdb stands out slightly with regard to comfort and feel.  the way the gun recoils was a little odd to me at first due to the way the gun ejects casings.  recoil is slight but does feel different from the others, but you get used to it.  when it comes to accuracy it seems to be king currently.  at 100yds i was getting about 1.5-2" groups if not better from bench support and sandbag.  i'd read it was accurate but was curious to see for myself and was happy  with results.  another nice touch is how gas is pushed out the bottom of the weapon no matter how quick you're burning through mags.  the tavor and fs2000 will gas me out on occasion with a quick indoor range session...not terrible but enough to pause to let the gas clear.  not the case with the rdb.  i forgot to mention i tinkered with the gas nut when i unboxed the gun and didn't get a chance to check the gas setting from factory.  i did have the intention to adjust myself but did reach out to kel-tec for recommended setting.  they mentioned that 3 clicks from full gas or turned all the way to the right is the universal setting.  this proved to be the case when first firing the weapon with 55gr federal.  when set properly you should see a minor dent on the mouth of the casing as specified in the manual.  i then adjusted 5 clicks out from 3 to 8 on the gas knob and immediately got an ejection failure, round fired just fine.  clearing this was easy and problem free as i just removed the magazine and cycled the charging handle ejecting the casing easily; no disassembly required.  i reverted back to setting 4 which ejected the casings fine along with the casing being dent free.  i went back to setting 3 to match manual specifications.  so obviously, no gas adjustments were needed out of the box in my case using 55gr federal.  other likes include the mag release that was never an issue or in the way nor did i accidentally bump.  pmag gen 2 & 3 mags ran flawlessly as well along with usgi mags - aluminum and steel.  Oh, the stock 5lb trigger easily better than the others.  Of final note...kel-tec's customer service has been sensational as they've answered every question I've had within the same day.  So, should you all abandon your bullpups for the rdb?...no. is it the best bullpup i've handled with reliability remaining to be seen?...definitely yes.          
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 11:25:12 AM by HBeretta » Logged
BullpupT
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,339


AF&AM 02


« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2016, 08:21:44 AM »

Not sure where people are getting 3 MOA out of the standard Tavor. The X95 maybe, but most testers including Nut n fancy, MAC, Hank Strange, and dozens of other testers on youtube get 1-1.5 MOA with match ammo out of their standard Tavors.

The videos and live fire presentationa are there to watch on youtube. The X95 seems like a 3moa gun according to most testers, but the Tavor has always been a 1-1.5 moa gun with match ammo and a 2- 2.5moa gun with crap ammo. That seems to be what 90% of shooters who test and post live results are getting, even with the horrible stock trigger.

I know both my 18 in and 16 in barrel both shoot MOA/MOA +.25 with Blackhills match and federal match ammo. I never get under 2.5 moa even with wolf ammo. I do get the occasional flyer with the cheap stuff, but I think that has more to do with quality control of the ammo... not the rifle.

To be fair the RDB is one of Kel tec's better designs. I always said it was worth it at the $1000-1100 price range. It doesn't have enough quality made components to go for much more than that. Its a great range gun for around a grand. I wouldn't stake my life on it but that's just my opinion after being exposed to Kel tec products over the years.

Kel Tec has some of the best and brightest within their RD and design department. They seem to be lacking in QC, materials, and stock availability (seems to be improving). I hope everyone that bought and RDB has good luck with it. I am glad it fits certain people better than other systems. It should stand on its own merits. I have a hard time when people compare it to battle proven and tested systems that have been put through the ringer.

The Tavor and other state owned firearm companies have millions of dollars at hand to test and create the cream of the crop. IWI probably spent more developing the Tavor than the entire Kel Tec company is worth... State run companies have the time and money to create perfection. A commercial gun can compete with these state run factories, but the expense and time is hardly worth it. They rely on money coming in from product sold, not tax money from its citizens to have enough capital to bring these rifles into existence.

 I think its silly to compare the two, but that's just my opinion. One is a battle proven, state designed, serving in over 25 nations weapon system. The other is a newly released, barely tested, commercial made rifle from a small boutique type company. I wish everyone the best with their RDB's. I will not be buying one, although I cant wait to shoot one once someone shows up at my range with one.
Logged
HBeretta
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 574



« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2016, 01:09:58 PM »

bullpupT you have valid points but i disagree with your assertion regarding comparisons hinged on state run factories and service history.  new products are rolled out all the time from various companies.  likewise, desert tech is on the cusp of rolling out their new mdr bullpup without prior service history nor the financial backing an outfit like IWI has.  will it be compared to battle proven bullpups like the aug and tavor and the likes?  absolutely!  i'm not sure why you have this notion that substantially smaller companies without gov't contracts or notoriety can't produce a superior product and that it's absurd to make comparisons.

that's not to say i don't share your notion that I'd be more trusting of new product releases from IWI or FNH because of the service history and legacy.  

but to your points...i based my accuracy on 55gr federal and not match.  tavor groups were good 2-2.5" which seems to be the trend with fs2000 and aug.  actually, got the worst groups with aug despite all the accuracy talk...at least with 55gr federal anyway.  it wasn't drastic but rdb seemed to edge them slightly for me.  now do i feel equal triggers would level the playing field?...yes.  of course, i'm making stock trigger comparisons.  will any of this matter if the SHTF and you likely won't have a bench and bag to get this type of accuracy?...no!

elaborate more on the quality made components on the rdb?  what do you feel is cheap on it?  the nitrided barrel is nice and there's definitely ongoing debate regarding wear vs chrome lined barrels.  moreover, HK and glock nitride as well.  i was surprised at the quality.  the rest of the gun appears fine to me.  does the tavor feel like it has the best rugged polymer of all the bullpups...yes.   i actually like the textured polymer of the tavor over the x95.  i mean if there's a cheaper feeling gun of the bullpups it's the steyr aug.

where are you located man?...i'll let you shoot mine.    

  
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 01:12:19 PM by HBeretta » Logged
BullpupT
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,339


AF&AM 02


« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2016, 02:49:01 PM »

bullpupT you have valid points but i disagree with your assertion regarding comparisons hinged on state run factories and service history.  new products are rolled out all the time from various companies.  likewise, desert tech is on the cusp of rolling out their new mdr bullpup without prior service history nor the financial backing an outfit like IWI has.  will it be compared to battle proven bullpups like the aug and tavor and the likes?  absolutely!  i'm not sure why you have this notion that substantially smaller companies without gov't contracts or notoriety can't produce a superior product and that it's absurd to make comparisons.

that's not to say i don't share your notion that I'd be more trusting of new product releases from IWI or FNH because of the service history and legacy.  

but to your points...i based my accuracy on 55gr federal and not match.  tavor groups were good 2-2.5" which seems to be the trend with fs2000 and aug.  actually, got the worst groups with aug despite all the accuracy talk...at least with 55gr federal anyway.  it wasn't drastic but rdb seemed to edge them slightly for me.  now do i feel equal triggers would level the playing field?...yes.  of course, i'm making stock trigger comparisons.  will any of this matter if the SHTF and you likely won't have a bench and bag to get this type of accuracy?...no!

elaborate more on the quality made components on the rdb?  what do you feel is cheap on it?  the nitrided barrel is nice and there's definitely ongoing debate regarding wear vs chrome lined barrels.  moreover, HK and glock nitride as well.  i was surprised at the quality.  the rest of the gun appears fine to me.  does the tavor feel like it has the best rugged polymer of all the bullpups...yes.   i actually like the textured polymer of the tavor over the x95.  i mean if there's a cheaper feeling gun of the bullpups it's the steyr aug.

where are you located man?...i'll let you shoot mine.    

  

My main gripe with the RDB is its barrel. It is a quality barrel but it isn't a cold hammer forged barrel. I cant stress enough how much tougher and longer lasting a cold hammer forged barrel is. The RDB's barrel is a $100 barrel if that. A cold hammer forged barrel like the Tavor will run you around $500! Do a little research on how cold hammer forged barrels are made. Its an amazing process... sure inexpensive barrels can be accurate, but their accuracy over time is greatly reduced. You might get a couple thousand rounds down the barrel before the chamber, lands and groves, ect start to wear away with a standard chrome lined barrel. A cold hammer forged barrel will last tens of thousands of rounds. The difference in barrels is night and day. The RDB might be more accurate out of the box, but do some testing after 5000 rounds. I am sure the Tavor will still group like it was new. The RDB barrel isn't even 4150 steel, its cheap 4140 steel that doesn't go more than 5k rounds without wear. 4150 steel is cheaper than cold hammer forging... the could of atleast used 4150. 4140 is a cheaper steel meant for them to make more money off of you.

I also do not like the polymer Kel Tec uses. I find it soft and easily torn at the seems. Their sonic welds are also suspect. This has been my experience with their handguns. I am not sure if they are using a different polymer now, but the polymer I am familiar with from Kel tec is sorely lacking. I also don't like how difficult it is to disassemble. I like having absolute access to the chamber area. The RDB's chamber is hard to access due to its ejection port design. The tavor opens wide up with one simple push pin. You can pull the bolt carrier out and reinsert it in under 5 seconds if emergency access is needed. The side ejection port on the Tavor also makes the chamber easy to access, much more so than the RDB

I agree with you on the stock trigger of the Tavor. I think it hampers a lot of shooters. New Tavors have better triggers, but a Geissile units all the difference in the world. I seriously have a bench rest style trigger in my Tavor... 3.75lbs with a solid second stage wall. The reset is almost unbelievable... double and triple taps on target are sooooo easy now.

I also prefer a self adjusting long stroke gas piston. It's the type of gas system is used on AK's and its one of the reasons for its legendary reliability. The long stroke gas system doesn't need adjusting even when using a suppressor. Not sure how the RDB works with suppressors or with different powder charges. The RDB might require a gas adjustment which takes time and energy. A Tavor is always ready to go with any ammo or suppressed. Its long stroke design is the pinnacle of reliability.

I am glad Kel Tec used the Tavor style mag release, but its to close to the shooters hand compared with the Tavor. The Tavor drops mags much more intuitively due to the distance required to release the mag. I understand what you are saying about good products coming from commercial companies, but the RDB will never be tested for service anywhere or by anyone. Its just not considered a serious infantry bullpup by any nation.  I am sure the MDR will be tested when its released. There are Governments already looking at the design according to desert tech (rumor I read maybe true). The RDB isn't a military tough and tested design. Its a commercial produced and tested product. The reason I bring up military trials is because major faults are always found when doing these tests. Parts, reliability, and other things become exposed in those tests. The RDB hasn't proven itself in that arena and it never will because no military in the world would run a Kel Tec as the go to gun.

 I could keep going on with other points but this post is getting long... I am glad you like your RDB and I wish you all the luck in the world with it! Grin
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 03:05:08 PM by BullpupT » Logged
Frostburg
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,381


« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2016, 03:47:44 PM »

Can't a private entity run a govt. mil-spec (NATO) test on the RDB?

I wonder what the result would be.
Logged
BullpupT
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,339


AF&AM 02


« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2016, 04:46:38 PM »

Can't a private entity run a govt. mil-spec (NATO) test on the RDB?

I wonder what the result would be.

Someone could... it would be nice to see what the procedures/tests are. They would need to spend a whole bunch on ammo. The field trials would be difficult because state run facilities issue it to a number of troops for testing. One RDB going through the test isn't a good benchmark. A half dozen to a dozen RDB's going through the tests would give a better picture of the rifles capabilities and limitations. I would be interested in seeing one test. It's more realistic than expecting to shell out money for a dozen guns and 500,000 rounds of ammo
Logged
Frostburg
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,381


« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2016, 09:46:20 PM »

 It would be cool if someone did. Even better, it would be cool if a company like bravo Company or noveske were to make their own copy of the RDB. Then, we would have the great platform of the rifle coupled with good quality construction and materials and a cold hammer forged barrel.  Then it would surely beat out every other bull pup on the market!   Smiley
Logged
HBeretta
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 574



« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2016, 09:36:06 PM »

bullpupT you have valid points but i disagree with your assertion regarding comparisons hinged on state run factories and service history.  new products are rolled out all the time from various companies.  likewise, desert tech is on the cusp of rolling out their new mdr bullpup without prior service history nor the financial backing an outfit like IWI has.  will it be compared to battle proven bullpups like the aug and tavor and the likes?  absolutely!  i'm not sure why you have this notion that substantially smaller companies without gov't contracts or notoriety can't produce a superior product and that it's absurd to make comparisons.

that's not to say i don't share your notion that I'd be more trusting of new product releases from IWI or FNH because of the service history and legacy.  

but to your points...i based my accuracy on 55gr federal and not match.  tavor groups were good 2-2.5" which seems to be the trend with fs2000 and aug.  actually, got the worst groups with aug despite all the accuracy talk...at least with 55gr federal anyway.  it wasn't drastic but rdb seemed to edge them slightly for me.  now do i feel equal triggers would level the playing field?...yes.  of course, i'm making stock trigger comparisons.  will any of this matter if the SHTF and you likely won't have a bench and bag to get this type of accuracy?...no!

elaborate more on the quality made components on the rdb?  what do you feel is cheap on it?  the nitrided barrel is nice and there's definitely ongoing debate regarding wear vs chrome lined barrels.  moreover, HK and glock nitride as well.  i was surprised at the quality.  the rest of the gun appears fine to me.  does the tavor feel like it has the best rugged polymer of all the bullpups...yes.   i actually like the textured polymer of the tavor over the x95.  i mean if there's a cheaper feeling gun of the bullpups it's the steyr aug.

where are you located man?...i'll let you shoot mine.    

  

My main gripe with the RDB is its barrel. It is a quality barrel but it isn't a cold hammer forged barrel. I cant stress enough how much tougher and longer lasting a cold hammer forged barrel is. The RDB's barrel is a $100 barrel if that. A cold hammer forged barrel like the Tavor will run you around $500! Do a little research on how cold hammer forged barrels are made. Its an amazing process... sure inexpensive barrels can be accurate, but their accuracy over time is greatly reduced. You might get a couple thousand rounds down the barrel before the chamber, lands and groves, ect start to wear away with a standard chrome lined barrel. A cold hammer forged barrel will last tens of thousands of rounds. The difference in barrels is night and day. The RDB might be more accurate out of the box, but do some testing after 5000 rounds. I am sure the Tavor will still group like it was new. The RDB barrel isn't even 4150 steel, its cheap 4140 steel that doesn't go more than 5k rounds without wear. 4150 steel is cheaper than cold hammer forging... the could of atleast used 4150. 4140 is a cheaper steel meant for them to make more money off of you.

I also do not like the polymer Kel Tec uses. I find it soft and easily torn at the seems. Their sonic welds are also suspect. This has been my experience with their handguns. I am not sure if they are using a different polymer now, but the polymer I am familiar with from Kel tec is sorely lacking. I also don't like how difficult it is to disassemble. I like having absolute access to the chamber area. The RDB's chamber is hard to access due to its ejection port design. The tavor opens wide up with one simple push pin. You can pull the bolt carrier out and reinsert it in under 5 seconds if emergency access is needed. The side ejection port on the Tavor also makes the chamber easy to access, much more so than the RDB

I agree with you on the stock trigger of the Tavor. I think it hampers a lot of shooters. New Tavors have better triggers, but a Geissile units all the difference in the world. I seriously have a bench rest style trigger in my Tavor... 3.75lbs with a solid second stage wall. The reset is almost unbelievable... double and triple taps on target are sooooo easy now.

I also prefer a self adjusting long stroke gas piston. It's the type of gas system is used on AK's and its one of the reasons for its legendary reliability. The long stroke gas system doesn't need adjusting even when using a suppressor. Not sure how the RDB works with suppressors or with different powder charges. The RDB might require a gas adjustment which takes time and energy. A Tavor is always ready to go with any ammo or suppressed. Its long stroke design is the pinnacle of reliability.

I am glad Kel Tec used the Tavor style mag release, but its to close to the shooters hand compared with the Tavor. The Tavor drops mags much more intuitively due to the distance required to release the mag. I understand what you are saying about good products coming from commercial companies, but the RDB will never be tested for service anywhere or by anyone. Its just not considered a serious infantry bullpup by any nation.  I am sure the MDR will be tested when its released. There are Governments already looking at the design according to desert tech (rumor I read maybe true). The RDB isn't a military tough and tested design. Its a commercial produced and tested product. The reason I bring up military trials is because major faults are always found when doing these tests. Parts, reliability, and other things become exposed in those tests. The RDB hasn't proven itself in that arena and it never will because no military in the world would run a Kel Tec as the go to gun.

 I could keep going on with other points but this post is getting long... I am glad you like your RDB and I wish you all the luck in the world with it! Grin

not sure what you're expecting with regard to the polymer.  you're just used to your tavor.  i do feel the tavor polymer is the best of the bullpups with regard to how rugged it feels and the texture.  as mentioned previously i prefer it over the x95 as well.  if i had to rank them i'd go tavor, x95, rdb, fs2000 then AUG.  you want to talk about a cheap feeling bullpup...the aug feels cheap.  likewise, i like my fs2000 but it does feel like cheap plastic but it's not; it certainly holds up to wear pretty well.  

also, not sure if you'd consider c-sog service but they've adopted the kel-tec line...rdb, rfb and ksg.  i think kel-tec is moving in the right direction.  quality control may be suspect but it seems their customer support is doing what's necessary to take care of their customers.

again, the rdb feels like a quality gun.  so does the rfb and ksg.  i can't speak about their handguns, but from what i've handled...nothing to really complain about.  i bought my rdb brand new for $999+tax.  obviously i went in first to handle the gun to be sure about the purchase.  it's light, build quality seems solid.  now that i've dressed up the gun i'm really happy with it.

oh, regarding suppression...it's suppresses very well.  no gas adjustment needed.  no it's not a long stroke gas system then again your ar15s are short stroke.  i'll have to side with you though...i'd prefer a long stroke system as it has less components an is more reliable.  that's not to say short stroke systems are lemons, but if i had to choose...  at least the upside to a short stroke is the less felt recoil.  the rdb does feel smoother while shooting...not saying the tavor feels horrible as it's a smooth shooter as well but the rdb feels a little more refined in this area.

also, the mag release on the rdb is ideal.  not sure what you've read or vids showing pre-production guns where it's bumped when shooting etc...  i'm 5'11 195lbs with medium to large hands and didn't have issues.  i like the tavor mag release but it's not as nice as the rdb.  it is slightly further back and it works fine and was curious about the rdb mag release...  really though...they're both ideal.  bolt release though...tavor wins.

i know not all polymer mags drop free on the tavor and appears to have carried over to the x95 as well...the rdb seems to be more diverse in this department.  personally, this wouldn't be a gripe on my end...most mags are cheap and i'm not too concerned with it.

anyway, with each new bullpup release, comparisons are made from one to the next.  accuracy seems to take precedence followed by the usual...ergonomics, reliability, build quality etc...  for me as long as i can hit steel from 100 yds consistently i'm happy.

so should you give the rdb a try?  yes.  will i be buying a tavor next?  absolutely!      
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 09:39:03 PM by HBeretta » Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Print 
Jump to:  



Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!