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Author Topic: RDB thoughts?  (Read 10486 times)
HBeretta
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« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2016, 01:59:13 PM »


Do I think the RDB is a better rifle? No I don't....it's lighter, has a better stock trigger and has been nothing but reliable for me in the 3 months i've owned one.

I can only speak from my own personal experience but the RDB has proved to be more accurate than my tavor. I am running a TAV-D trigger in my Tavor and I can get 2-3" groups. I am probably about .5" better with the RDB. I an effort to be fair I have always taken them out side by side and shot them with the same ammo, optics etc. It could be that the RDB just works better for my shooting from a bench or prone, but like I said I have been getting better groups with the RDB.

I will also say that the rifle doesn't feel flimsy or like some of the other, frankly questionable, products I have seem from Kel tec, so for whatever that is worth it is a check mark in my book. The rifle feels solid and well made.

NOW

Having said all of that if I had to pick one i would still take the Tavor (I said all of these things in my prelim review). Why? The short answer is total ruggedness, proven history and the fact that the rifle feels like I could throw it off a cliff and it wouldn't miss a beat. My tavor is the equivalent of my dog in terms of rifles. It will always be my best rifle buddy and my go to but the RDB is a serious contender.


lol...so let me get this straight...it's lighter, more accurate, better trigger and hasn't malfunctioned on you at all and actually praise the build quality...what WOULD it take for it to be a better rifle?  again, it's been reliable, it's more accurate, better trigger etc...in your words.  

actually, i'm commenting here because of your insight to build quality.  i always laugh when i read, "...it feels like cheap plastic" etc...or many will assume it's the same polymer kel-tec has been rolling out since day one.  i only have experience with the RDB and in comparison to other bullpups on the market...the polymer certainly doesn't lack.  you could nitpick all the bullpup offerings if it came down to it.  the fs2000 and steyr feel cheaper in build by comparison.  the x95 doesn't feel like the be all end all either with the front polymer rail covers and that cheap feeling plastic nub for a charging handle.  another item to note is the barrel finish on the rdb which feels and looks better than my fs2000.  i don't have to oil it each and every time to prevent it from fading or discoloring from long range sessions everytime; it has a nicer finish and stands up to heat well...guess i'll take nitriding over manganese phosphating any day.  so for those wondering about the RDB's build quality in terms of feel...it feels just like all the other bullpups on the market which are...HARDENED PLASTICS!!  i'm sorry but it's laughable when i read those comments.

i've shot all the major players on the market...fs2000, steyr aug, tavor, x95 & rdb and own a couple of them.  i'm currently working on getting an x95 next.  with that said...the rdb is the smoothest shooting, best feeling, lightest and most accurate of the bunch out of the box.  i agree with complaints of quality control from kel-tec but at this point other companies should be grateful for this because if the rdb was battle tested and proven...well on the other hand, if that were the case the RDB couldn't be had for $900-1000 in local gun shops either.

if you're a bullpup fan and feel hesitant about the rdb...don't be because it runs like a ferrari minus the typical bullpup price tag.  yeah it may break down on you or not and it does come with a lifetime warranty and the best customer service in the industry.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 02:14:25 PM by HBeretta » Logged
Frostburg
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« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2016, 06:51:06 PM »

I agree with this. I'm currently on winter break, so I have time to put some more rounds downrange this month. But honestly, besides a combat track record, I can perceive no significant advantages that the Tavor has over the RDB.  I really wish keltec would raise the bar on their quality control, or that another manufacturer would produce a clone with identical specs, but superior materials and construction.
Honestly, such a rifle would be revolutionary.  It would be the best 5.56  fighting rifle, imo.
I really wish I could pay extra money for a deluxe model of the RDB, that is exactly the same, design wise, but has better quality control and materials. That would certainly be my go-to rifle, without any hesitation.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 07:12:49 PM by Frostburg » Logged
HBeretta
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« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2017, 02:40:04 AM »

i agree with quality control and i realize a lot of hands are involved in assembling the rifles.  i believe they're running 3 shifts over at kel-tec in trying to keep up with demand from what i've read.  i'm not sure what you're comparing it to with regard to materials.  i mean the receiver is sheet steel to protect against a bad load and the polymer on the gun is zytel polymer which expands and doesn't crack.  my fs2000 which is an fn product doesn't offer this fail safe as the entire gun is polymer minus the bolt assembly.  again, the polymer on the RDB is better and overall i feel the quality of the rifle is fine and fits right in with it's competitors. 

i mean are you comparing it to your gold standard rifle?  if so, i'm curious as to what rifle it is.  or are you drawing comparisons with other competing bullpups?  again, i'm satisfied with the RDB's build quality but quality control could improve. 
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Frostburg
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« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2017, 03:13:39 AM »

You know, like high quality polymers and metal alloys like those found in the Tavor or Steyr AUG or
SCAR. I would like to have an RDB made with the same specs, but utilizing those rifle's materials and quality control and fitting.  That would be amazing.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2017, 08:10:16 PM »

You know, like high quality polymers and metal alloys like those found in the Tavor or Steyr AUG or
SCAR. I would like to have an RDB made with the same specs, but utilizing those rifle's materials and quality control and fitting.  That would be amazing.

i actually like the rdb polymer...feels tough and rigid along with knowing it's zytel polymer.  steyr aug doesn't impress me polymer wise and the charging handle is pretty terrible and cheap feeling...middle of the pack for me or as you'd expect with a bullpup rifle.  the tavor and x95 though i would have to agree slightly.  the subtle texturing is a nice touch and appears to lead the pack regarding polymer quality.  there are cheaper feeling polymers out there ie fs2000 or entry level ar15s etc...  i'm completely satifsfied with the RDB as a product especially in comparison to the competition with regard to quality and price.

the scar is the cream of the crop but when i pick it up i'm not "floored" by the build quality but can tell it's precise and above average especially the integrated sights.  now when i shoot the SCAR though...that does blow me away how light the recoil is on the light and heavy.  likewise, the RDB blew me away how it shoots like a .22.

i did get a chance to install a 3-9 power on my RDB recently and was getting sub MOA groups more than expected at 100yds albeit not by much.  i didn't have my sharpie on me and went with a group so didn't get a chance to take my time and get photos down but will and will post here when i get a chance.  reminds me of the link below - gentleman was getting 1" groups and averaged 1.5".  i averaged 1.7" when i documented accuracy.  

all in all though, i do get your point...if the rifle was built on the highest quality of products that we've experienced, felt and have seen..would be something for sure.  then again, i don't think we'd get it for $900-1000 either at that point.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/453235_.html
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 11:21:11 PM by HBeretta » Logged
Frostburg
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« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2017, 09:49:57 PM »

You know, like high quality polymers and metal alloys like those found in the Tavor or Steyr AUG or
SCAR. I would like to have an RDB made with the same specs, but utilizing those rifle's materials and quality control and fitting.  That would be amazing.

i actually like the rdb polymer...feels tough and rigid along with knowing it's zytel polymer.  steyr aug doesn't impress me polymer wise and the charging handle is pretty terrible and cheap feeling...middle of the pack for me or as you'd expect with a bullpup rifle.  the tavor and x95 though i would have to agree slightly.  the subtle texturing is a nice touch and appears to lead the pack regarding polymer quality.  there are cheaper feeling polymers out there ie fs2000 or entry level ar15s etc...  i'm completely satifsfied with the RDB as a product especially in comparison to the competition with regard to quality and price.

the scar is the cream of the crop but when i pick it up i'm not "floored" by the build quality but can tell it's precise and above average especially the integrated sights.  now when i shoot the SCAR though...that does blow me away how light the recoil is on the light and heavy.  likewise, the RDB blew me away how it shoots like a .22.

i did get a chance to install a 3-9 power on my RDB recently and was getting sub MOA groups more than expected at 100yds albeit not by much.  i didn't have my sharpie on me and went with a group so didn't get a chance to take my time and get photos down but will and will post here when i get a chance.  reminds me of the link below - gentleman was getting 1" groups and average 1.5".  i averaged 1.7" when i documented accuracy.  

all in all though, i do get your point...if the rifle was built on the highest quality of products that we've experienced, felt and have seen..would be something for sure.  then again, i don't think we'd get it for $900-1000 either at that point.

Hmm. After your comparison, I think I'll give the RDB another shot. I called Keltec a few days ago and they are sending me a new extractor pin in the mail.  I was actually grilling the rep on the phone about my problem, sorta asking some pointed questions about why this occurred, and how I will know that it won't occur again. I didn't have the chance to really talk to him about it as my new gf decided to call me 18 times in a row while I was on the phone with rep, so I kept hearing her call waiting tone beeping the entire time. It was maddening.
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SamM
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« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2017, 05:05:32 PM »

My past bullpups have been the Steyr AUG A3 and one of the first IWI Tavors sold. My current bullpup is a Steyr AUG A3 MI. The first AUG A3 was way too heavy for what it was. These are 5.56 rifles why must they weigh 8lbs or more? The Tavor was a real disappointment for me too. It was a great rifle but when shooting it suppressed, all the air went out of that ballon real quick. It gassed me horribly. My thought was to replace it with the X95. After reading about the accuracy of the X95 and the gas issue of the Tavor, that wasn't an option. If you don't own a suppressor the Tavor might seem like the perfect rifle. Suppressor use nullifies that. The Tavor let me down, so I went back to the AUG. Neither of these weapons are completely ambidextrous. I have always wanted a completely ambidextrous semi-auto weapon. Until the RDB came along nobody truly made one. Say what you want about it but the Kel-Tec RDB is a product of the 21st century. It's about time a company had the foresight to look to a future design. As a student of firearms, I find the RDB refreshing. Finally, something new. My hat is off to Kel-Tec.

What really has me considering this rifle is the new Kel-Tec RDB-S (Survival). This is truly a unique rifle. The ergonomics look perfect. I see it as a great, general purpose weapon. The one criticism would be the retractable stock. I see no point to it. No pistol grip means that it will go into any rifle case and just about any backpack. The ultimate in a concealable rifle. What I am considering is buying an RDB until the RDB-S is available and then build a hybrid using parts that I like from each rifle. The RDB stock on the RDB-S lower and the RDB-S handguard. I'd like to see a slightly heavier profile, fluted barrel on the RDB-S. If not, I'll have one modified into what I want. I did that with my AUG barrel.

The reports from Kel-Tec are that they will eventually build the RDB in .308W. The worlds first lightweight, compact, ambi, semi-auto .308W rifle. These are great times that we live in. The criticism of the Kel-Tec seems pointless to me. I have done nothing but hold one (it was not for sale or it would have been mine). It's the first rifle that has me excited about bullpups in many, many years. Honestly, the quality seems on par with the rest. Look closely at the quality of the AUG stock. It's sub-par in my book. You can see grinding marks in it. Not the best quality. The metal parts are perfect and Steyr has done a great job with the A3 M1. Both my AUGs would out shoot my Tavor any day of the week. The Tavor is a 2.5 MOA rifle. The AUGs shoot about 1.5-2 MOA. This is with stock triggers. With a good trigger the AUG would outclass any Tavor.

The Tavor seemed overly complex to me. The barrel removal was horrible, the multi-cal option was dropped and a bolt change requires shipping back to the factory for head spacing. That's a no-go. The non-adjustable gas system is also disappointing. The rail was also too low to use optics effectly. A higher rail was a needed accessory. Same with the trigger. This was one of the only weapons that I lost money on. I'm old enough to remember the pre-ban weapons of the 1980's. Owned most of them and shot the rest. The Tavor was one of the most disappointing weapons ever.

To sum up, the RDB has me excited. I'll probably own a couple of them before it's all over. The AUG will probably go down the road shortly, as I move into the 21st century. Feel free to criticize my thoughts on these weapons. If you are not looking at the RDB as a step forward, then you are not looking at it correctly. Your glasses may be rose colored.

SamM



* IMG_2482.JPG (445.2 KB, 2208x1242 - viewed 49 times.)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 05:18:54 PM by SamM » Logged

Why SBR?
HBeretta
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« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2017, 11:18:38 PM »

My past bullpups have been the Steyr AUG A3 and one of the first IWI Tavors sold. My current bullpup is a Steyr AUG A3 MI. The first AUG A3 was way too heavy for what it was. These are 5.56 rifles why must they weigh 8lbs or more? The Tavor was a real disappointment for me too. It was a great rifle but when shooting it suppressed, all the air went out of that ballon real quick. It gassed me horribly. My thought was to replace it with the X95. After reading about the accuracy of the X95 and the gas issue of the Tavor, that wasn't an option. If you don't own a suppressor the Tavor might seem like the perfect rifle. Suppressor use nullifies that. The Tavor let me down, so I went back to the AUG. Neither of these weapons are completely ambidextrous. I have always wanted a completely ambidextrous semi-auto weapon. Until the RDB came along nobody truly made one. Say what you want about it but the Kel-Tec RDB is a product of the 21st century. It's about time a company had the foresight to look to a future design. As a student of firearms, I find the RDB refreshing. Finally, something new. My hat is off to Kel-Tec.

What really has me considering this rifle is the new Kel-Tec RDB-S (Survival). This is truly a unique rifle. The ergonomics look perfect. I see it as a great, general purpose weapon. The one criticism would be the retractable stock. I see no point to it. No pistol grip means that it will go into any rifle case and just about any backpack. The ultimate in a concealable rifle. What I am considering is buying an RDB until the RDB-S is available and then build a hybrid using parts that I like from each rifle. The RDB stock on the RDB-S lower and the RDB-S handguard. I'd like to see a slightly heavier profile, fluted barrel on the RDB-S. If not, I'll have one modified into what I want. I did that with my AUG barrel.

The reports from Kel-Tec are that they will eventually build the RDB in .308W. The worlds first lightweight, compact, ambi, semi-auto .308W rifle. These are great times that we live in. The criticism of the Kel-Tec seems pointless to me. I have done nothing but hold one (it was not for sale or it would have been mine). It's the first rifle that has me excited about bullpups in many, many years. Honestly, the quality seems on par with the rest. Look closely at the quality of the AUG stock. It's sub-par in my book. You can see grinding marks in it. Not the best quality. The metal parts are perfect and Steyr has done a great job with the A3 M1. Both my AUGs would out shoot my Tavor any day of the week. The Tavor is a 2.5 MOA rifle. The AUGs shoot about 1.5-2 MOA. This is with stock triggers. With a good trigger the AUG would outclass any Tavor.

The Tavor seemed overly complex to me. The barrel removal was horrible, the multi-cal option was dropped and a bolt change requires shipping back to the factory for head spacing. That's a no-go. The non-adjustable gas system is also disappointing. The rail was also too low to use optics effectly. A higher rail was a needed accessory. Same with the trigger. This was one of the only weapons that I lost money on. I'm old enough to remember the pre-ban weapons of the 1980's. Owned most of them and shot the rest. The Tavor was one of the most disappointing weapons ever.

To sum up, the RDB has me excited. I'll probably own a couple of them before it's all over. The AUG will probably go down the road shortly, as I move into the 21st century. Feel free to criticize my thoughts on these weapons. If you are not looking at the RDB as a step forward, then you are not looking at it correctly. Your glasses may be rose colored.

SamM



i've been preaching this for quite a while now.  the main gripe is QC/reliability but i didn't care with a lifetime warranty and luckily my gun has been problem free at over 1k rounds now.
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SamM
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« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2017, 08:44:57 AM »

HBeretta,
It's good to hear that the rifles, in the hands of paying customers are reliable. The lifetime warranty is a good indication that Kel-Tec will stand behind their rifles. This gives me even more confidence in my choice to pick one up. I'm looking for a green RDB for a good price. I jumped too fast on the Tavor and paid way too much for one of the early rifles.  Not happening again.

SamM
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« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2017, 12:14:30 PM »

New short RDB video. Looks to run great; even with steel on a few occassions in this video. The guy even made some nice hits out at 300 yards. Very smooth handling rifle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA4NwKQaGuo
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