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Author Topic: RDB thoughts?  (Read 9494 times)
logan5
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« on: November 30, 2015, 01:04:40 PM »

anyone compare it to the Tavor yet?  I'm expecting a better stock trigger, but are the ergos and functionality on par, better, or worse?  I know that's all subjective but it'll nice to see what people think.

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Frostburg
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2015, 03:29:24 PM »

From the reviews I've seen, esp. on AR15.com,
the RDB is probably a cut above the Tavor.

It's lighter, more accurate, has a better trigger.
It seems to be very reliable.

The Tavor is supremely reliable, but isn't as
accurate, and doesn't have as good of a trigger.

From what I've been reading, the RDB might trump
the Tavor as a go to rifle.
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BullpupT
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2015, 03:45:06 PM »

From the reviews I've seen, esp. on AR15.com,
the RDB is probably a cut above the Tavor.

It's lighter, more accurate, has a better trigger.
It seems to be very reliable.

The Tavor is supremely reliable, but isn't as
accurate, and doesn't have as good of a trigger.

From what I've been reading, the RDB might trump
the Tavor as a go to rifle.

Cut above a Tavor? I think not... it doesn't hold a candle to either the AUG or Tavor. The AUG and Tavor are the Cadillac's of the bullpup world.  Kel tec is well known for their horrible quality control and availability. I not making this stuff up. Do a little google search and see what kind of quality you actually get with a Kel tec. They are not Caddy's... they are more like Hyundai's. Sure Hyundai makes a luxury $40,000 car. That doesn't mean its worth 40k... its till a Hyundai! I would rather spend my money of a military tested and evolved weapon system "Cadillac" weapon system, than barely tested "Hyundai" system.

Is not as accurate? My Tavor is a 1moa gun all day long with good ammo. Mine shoots under one moa with Blackhills match 68gr and Federal gold medal as well. Lets remember everyone... its still a KelTech with ZERO field use. The Tavor and AUG have major time in the field and are dead nuts reliable. I am going to wait for more rounds down the RBD tube before buying one.

Weight? They basically weigh the same. The Tavor is 8.4lbs and the RBD is just under 8lbs.... not a huge difference. I know they list 7lbs as the RBD weight, but they aren't weighing the sights or empty mag in place. Manufactures do this a lot of times to make their weapons appear light. A set of back up sight will bring the RBD to within a few ounces of the Tavor. The Tavor is weighed from the factory with back up sights installed.
It is NOT more accurate than the Tavor... all the videos I have watch and all the reviews I have seen give it a 1.5moa / 2moa with match ammo. Its a 1/9 twist YUCK!!!

I don't understand where people are getting the idea that the Tavor isn't accurate. Nutnfacy, MAC, and others all have reported 1 MOA guns with good ammo. Heck mine shoots under 2moa with Wolf garbage. Its more accurate than my 16in AR Maine built Bushmaster.

The only thing hindering the Tavor's  accuracy for some people is its some what heavy trigger. Its lighter than FAL, and HK military triggers, but people still complain. I am still running the stock trigger with the spring still attached. I have several hundred rounds down range now. My trigger pull scale is showing 8.6lbs from the stock trigger. NOT BAD AT ALL for a military trigger. I have absolutely no problem shooting quarter size groups @100 yards out of my stock 18in Tavor. A drop in trigger kit will cost you under $300 with the right coupon. Once installed the Tavor turns into a tiny little sharpshooting machine. My buddy is running a Timney gen 2 trigger that feels better than my Rock River Arms 3.5# Match AR trigger I am running in my Bushy.

The AUG and Tavor are in a whole different league than the KelTec. We still haven't seen long term reliability issues with the RBD yet. Its still to new. The RFB is a hunting rifle NOT a military rifle. It doesn't have the service record or reliability record to back it up. I am hoping the RBD will be Keltec's first real reliable platform. Most of their other stuff has had issues in the past. I will never buy a kel tec handgun again... NEVER! I have bought 3 of their handguns over the years. Not one of them worked properly. I sent the first one back a couple times... still never worked reliably. I sold the other two because I didn't feel like waiting another 6 months for kel tec to fix them. I DO NOT see Kel tec's as serious go to weapons. They are more like range toys that I would never trust my life with. A quick google search of kel tec customer complaints will clearly illustrate my opinion.

I do have high hopes for the RBD. I am reserving full judgment until I see some serious round counts down the tube.. I hope the internals will hold up well. It doesn't have the record to compete with the AUG or Tavor. Comparing it to either is just silly until it proves itself over the next year. I also think it is silly not being able to access or even look into the chamber. How to you clear a double feed with a case stuck on top of another one? You need access to the chamber area PERIOD! The FS2000 has that silly door, but at least you can inspect your chamber. I see double feeds and the inability to clearly see into the chamber as the major Achilles heal of the platform.

Remember its not an IWI or Steyr, or Desert Tech... its a Kel tec... nough said!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 04:34:45 PM by BullpupT » Logged
BullpupT
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2015, 03:48:15 PM »

duplicate... sorry
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DR_PRP
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2015, 04:46:11 PM »

I expect the RDB and the Tavor are almost the same for all practical purposes.

Insistence on firearms having undergone 20 years of combat, before being pronounced carry worthy, is the crutch of those who lack solid engineering judgement.

I'd want to see the IDF's complete Armorers Records for wear and replacement before proclaiming the Tavor's indestructibility.  Simply issuing the thing means next to nothing.

The Tavor's a great rifle. It's as reliable as I need it to be. I own one. It's my go to gun...But I'm not a fan boy and I don't lay awake at night agonizing over whether it weighs 4 oz more than the RDB, which from all accounts is going to turn out to be a fine example of the bullpup type as well.
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I know plenty of idiots that could accidentally break an anvil, who then turn right around and blame the anvil for not being Mil-Spec.
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2015, 04:55:16 PM »

I expect the RDB and the Tavor are almost the same for all practical purposes.

Insistence on firearms having undergone 20 years of combat, before being pronounced carry worthy, is the crutch of those who lack solid engineering judgement.

I'd want to see the IDF's complete Armorers Records for wear and replacement before proclaiming the Tavor's indestructibility.  Simply issuing the thing means next to nothing.

The Tavor's a great rifle. It's as reliable as I need it to be. I own one. It's my go to gun...But I'm not a fan boy and I don't lay awake at night agonizing over whether it weighs 4 oz more than the RDB, which from all accounts is going to turn out to be a fine example of the bullpup type as well.


Solid engineering judgment? Dude its a Kel tec. Do you not know about Kel tec? I have been in the shooting sports for over 30 years. Kel tec is well known as a producer of sub par products. Seriously man... I do not need 20 years of service to approve a rifle. I doesn't hurt that the Tavor is fielded in this many countries...

The IDF isn't the only country using the Tavor. Here is a list...

Angola
 Azerbaijan
 Brazil
 Cameroon
 Chad
 Chile
 Colombia
 Ethiopia
 Georgia
 Guatemala
 Honduras
 India
Macedonia
Mexico
 Nepal
Nigeria
 Peru
 Philippines
 Portugal
 Thailand
 Turkey
 Ukraine
Vietnam
 United States

If a solid track record from all the countries doesn't convince you of the Tavor's reputation, I don't know what will. Put the kel tec into service and see how long it lasts. A good solid track record is something to be celebrated... not demonized.

 Comparing it to a IWI or Steyr is just plain silly. Kel tec is WELL KNOWN in the industry for guns that need to go back over and over again to get right. I am not making this stuff up, To say the RDB is on par with either the Tavor or AUG is the ludicrous. I know we both have our opinions, but do a search of issues with kel tech products compared to either IWI or Steyr and see what you come up with. The RDB isn't even is the same class. Its like comparing a Mercedes to a Hyundai. We don't have to agree, but the numbers clearly back up my statements.

The RDB is only in a few peoples hands. It hasn't been tested, I mean seriously tested by anyone else except for Kel tec itself. Its wayyyyyyyyyy to early to say the RDB is on par with the Tavor or AUG.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 10:00:04 AM by BullpupT » Logged
DR_PRP
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2015, 07:39:36 PM »

Every company turns out bad designs every now and then.

The H&K MP-7 has been adopted by at least 21 nation states, yet just last week, it's anemic 4.7mm round left the Colorado Springs Swat team screaming for M-14's to be brought in, because they were getting pounded by a 7.62x39 AK though walls. CSPD SWAT spent the better part of two hours getting their ass kicked because of..."Poor Engineering Judgement, coupled with Fanboyism and dangerously flawed Gun Board Conventional Wisdom's.

Now imagine what would of happened had they put those H&K Fan Boy Approved H&K MP-7's up against 6 ISIS Terrorists with AK's, willing to shoot though the walls of a Kindergarten instead of a Planned Parenthood. Engineering judgement matters more than brand name, reputation and even, well,  if the particular weapon's been adopted by 21 countries.

I've spent about 40 years doing this myself BT and honestly, after about twenty years over at Arfcom...I know the difference between actual mechanical knowledge and egotistical fan boy hype.

The market sometimes evolves beyond the so called "Gun Board Conventional Wisdom's", or at least faster than the "Gun Board Conventional Wisdom's" can catch up and adapt to new realities within the industry.

 20 years ago, Glock introduced a revolution, not simply with polymer, but more so in handgun reliability.  So much so, that an entire dogma sprang up, Glock Fan boys became something akin to a brainwashed Hari Krishna cult, of guys who's understanding of what made their gun go bang, extended no further than mindless regurgitation of 50,000 round torture tests and constant ego driven confirmation bias. While all around them, the handgun market evolved to the point that Glock like levels of reliability BECAME THE STANDARD. Now days there are a dozen polymer, striker fired pistols on the market, just as reliable and durable as the Glock.  Do the Glock fan boys understand, that their Gun Board Conventional Wisdom is 10 to 15 years out of date? For the most part...Nope. They go right on regurgitating the same old Gun Board Dogma's and Fanboyisms. Like one trick ponies wearing blinders. The one thing you can be certain of is they'll probably never learn a new trick or be able to comprehend that the circus has moved on.

I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've been screwed over by FN/Browning, Yet by your logic...I should judge the SCAR suspect because the Browning BDM had a myriad of problems. (I can name a few more FN/Browning debacles if need be.)  

You see, that's my point. We have to evaluate each design by it's engineering merits...Not simply because of some bias towards the manufactures performance a decade ago. Springfield Armory, Sig, S&W and Ruger are all examples of companies that had rough patches, where quality or design suffered, yet all of those companies have individual designs that are unquestionable gems of the firearms world. Simply condemning the RDB because it's a Kel-Tec is short sighted and...Well kind of lazy.

If you want the respect of your readers....Tell us where the current engineering fails. Not where Kel-Tec failed fifteen years.
ago.  

I spent a great deal of my life in the Automotive Parts Aftermarket. A place where one sort of develops a feel for over hyped engineering and engineering fail. So let me put your argument in simplified terms. "your telling me I shouldn't trust a 2016 Vette...Because General Motors once produced the Corvair."

« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 08:10:54 PM by DR_PRP » Logged

I know plenty of idiots that could accidentally break an anvil, who then turn right around and blame the anvil for not being Mil-Spec.
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2015, 08:49:59 PM »

I see a flawed design. No access to the chamber, 1/9 twist, I'm not even sure it's cold hammer forged. Kel Tec hasn't a few bad designs, it's a quality control issue. Some of their designs are very innovative, yet they always seem to fall short.

I personally think you are nuts comparing FN or Browning to Kel Tec. Kel Tec is more like Charter Arms, Rossi, Taurus, ect.

They don't have the money, staff, or R&D to be in he same league as IMI/IWI, Steyr, FN, ect. To say they products are reliable, tested, or posses the same quality is fanboyism at its greatest.

It's a Kel Tec... Any serious shooter will understand what I am saying. Kel Tec'a reputation speaks for itself. The amount of guns that need to go back for repair is crazy. The several month wait is maddening! It has nothing to do with a few bad designs. It has more to do with several decades of shakey performance, constant buyer complaints, more than you average RMA rate. I'm not making this up... Do a little research!

I haven't ruled out buying an RBD. I'm just not a fanboy who will compare it to a platform that has been in service with dozens of countries over the course of a decade now! Saying the RBD is up to snuff with the Tavor or AUG is fanboyism at its greatest. How many have been tested? How many have been fielded? Let's just keep things in perspective. Even the new owners of the RBD are just learning about it.
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DR_PRP
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2015, 09:11:04 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3jek2PML1g

I mean just look at that thing! How Tacticool can you get? What astounding marketing on H&K's part! What extensive Testing! It's even got the Larry Vickers seal of approval. (Just like FireClean) No wonder it's been adopted by 21 countries and the Colorado Springs Police Department SWAT Team.

Of course when it was confronted with a two way range, against a lone gunman with a $500 to $900 AK, who was determined enough to stay in the fight, instead of suiciding within 30 seconds of Police contact, and who utilized his ballistic penetration advantage by shooting though multiple walls....The much touted H&K MP-7 failed miserably.  CSPD Swat would of been better off with any of a host of long guns that sell for 25% of the price of the Ultra-Tacticool, Operator Approved and Endorsed H&K MP-7. Heck....They'd of probably been better off just dropping those tacticool MP-7's to their side and transitioning to their 9mm handguns, when the 7.62x39 started coming though two to six panels of sheet rock.

CSPD SWAT would probably even been better off with RDB's...Than those incredibly well tested and well marketed H&K MP-7's and the Tavor would of beat that H&K abortion as well...certainly in effectiveness, if not in Youtube Instructor Payola Marketing.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 09:13:08 PM by DR_PRP » Logged

I know plenty of idiots that could accidentally break an anvil, who then turn right around and blame the anvil for not being Mil-Spec.
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2015, 09:55:47 AM »

At least the MP-7 worked every time you pull the trigger. The same cant be said for Kel tec products. Comparing HK to Kel tec is silly. The MP-7 is a superior design, although the round is a disappointment.  The You wont have to worry about broken parts, cheap easily broken wire type springs, lower quality polymer and plastics, ect.

You can keep defending Kel tec all you want. Decades of customer issues, guns sent back, poor QC are all back up by legit data. Look it up! Kel tec is not a quality arms manufacturer with millions of dollars for R&D like IMI, FN, HK, ect.

They are a small company that puts out fairly decent arms that belong on the range. They do not belong in the combat and I would never trust my life to.

There are first rate, second rate, and third rate companies.

1st rate
Accuracy International
Beneli
FN
HK
IMI
Steyr
Beretta
Colt
and others

2nd rate
Taurus
Kel tec
Charter Arms
Rossi
and others.

Third rate
Rave Arms
Hi Point
and a few others


You mustn't confuse commercial products with real military tested and approved products. I would never drop that kind of cash on a range toy. When you buy from 2nd rate companies expect second rate products. Sure Charter Arms, Rossi, and Kel tec make decent firearms. They have stood the test of time and produce enjoyable products, but they really aren't serious designs with millions of dollars of testing in freeze tanks, sand rooms.

 I have heard gross over exaggerations concerning the RDB. I watched on video with some SWAT tool stating he was shooting out to 1000 yards accurately with the RDB. I call BULL#$%@! Its a 5.56... I don't care what rifle you are shooting, the 5.56 is NOT a 1000 yard cartridge.

I am waiting for real testers to do some real tests with the RDB.  I'm not sure if the barrel is cold hammer forged .I don't even think the RDB is over the beach capable. Its way to early to classify the RDB with hi end systems from major players. Its a Kel Tec so it has some serious hurdles to jump before its can be considered a serious weapon system and not just a range toy. Again... this is only my opinion but I think the facts and history back me up. Grin
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 10:04:06 AM by BullpupT » Logged
Frostburg
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2015, 11:42:33 AM »

BullpupT, you should
go to AR15.com to read some of the user
reviews of the RDB over there, and a few of the
users over here.  Despite keltec's reputation, the RDB
seems to be a major breakthrough in their firearms line.

I'm not saying the Tavor isn't reliable. It's supremely reliable.
But most Tavor owners arn't getting 1moa out of their rifles. At least
not without considerable trigger time behind one. I've read most
folks get about on average, 1.5 or 2-3moa with the Tavor.  Your rifle
might be a sharpshooter, that's generally not the case.

Of all the end user reviews of the RDB, reports are generally about moa,
or slightly less or more.  There are already a handful of reviews which compare
the RDB as being a notch more accurate than the Tavor.

As for your insinuation that keltec gun's are low quality which need
to be constantly sent back for repairs.  This doesn't seem to be the case
for the RDB.  There are already people with hundreds of rounds out of the box
with zero failures. Some with a few thousand rounds. Some of these people
on this forum and ar15.com.   Several hundred rounds out of the box, with no failures,
and no lube?  That's a test many military M4/M16s would fail.

Every single person who's reported their impression state that the
rifle appears to be solid and of quality construction. You can talk about
past history all you want, you can't really argue with current RDB owner
experience.  Yes, the rifle is still new and needs more time out in the wild,
but it's already exceeded most expectations in accuracy and reliability.
It's accuracy is already being demonstrated as slightly better than the Tavor,
several hundred or even thousands of rounds through it without failure.  These
are reports that are hard to argue against.
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BullpupT
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2015, 01:50:02 PM »

BullpupT, you should
go to AR15.com to read some of the user
reviews of the RDB over there, and a few of the
users over here.  Despite keltec's reputation, the RDB
seems to be a major breakthrough in their firearms line.

I'm not saying the Tavor isn't reliable. It's supremely reliable.
But most Tavor owners arn't getting 1moa out of their rifles. At least
not without considerable trigger time behind one. I've read most
folks get about on average, 1.5 or 2-3moa with the Tavor.  Your rifle
might be a sharpshooter, that's generally not the case.

Of all the end user reviews of the RDB, reports are generally about moa,
or slightly less or more.  There are already a handful of reviews which compare
the RDB as being a notch more accurate than the Tavor.

As for your insinuation that keltec gun's are low quality which need
to be constantly sent back for repairs.  This doesn't seem to be the case
for the RDB.  There are already people with hundreds of rounds out of the box
with zero failures. Some with a few thousand rounds. Some of these people
on this forum and ar15.com.   Several hundred rounds out of the box, with no failures,
and no lube?  That's a test many military M4/M16s would fail.

Every single person who's reported their impression state that the
rifle appears to be solid and of quality construction. You can talk about
past history all you want, you can't really argue with current RDB owner
experience.  Yes, the rifle is still new and needs more time out in the wild,
but it's already exceeded most expectations in accuracy and reliability.
It's accuracy is already being demonstrated as slightly better than the Tavor,
several hundred or even thousands of rounds through it without failure.  These
are reports that are hard to argue against.

Thanks for the information. I will be checking out AR15.com to read the reviews. Truth be told, I probably am being a little harsh on the RBD. It's hard for me to get over my past experience with Kel Tec. I will need to do more research on the RBD before I generalize about its attribute.

I truly and honestly hope his design is a winner. I want Kel Tec to prove itself once and for all.
The few things I don't like about it really aren't deal breakers. I'm not crazy about the 1/9 twist, non captive takedown pins, front heaviness, tiny/short top rail, most of all NO Access to the chamber without take down. Double feeds can happen even if the gun is 100%. Magazines seem to have a huge influence on double feeds. A stuck case on top of a live round jammed in the chamber area can be difficult to clear without the ability to atleast see what's going on.

I can overlook those things if the RDB turns out to be as reliable as we all hope. I still can't get straight answers about major issues though...

My two BIG questions have to do with whether or not the barrel is cold hammer forged. This is a HUGE deal for me especially when you consider the price of admission.

Is it over the beach capable? Another HUGE deal for a combat weapon.

I am on my way over to AR15 to check it out.

Oh... Concerning the accuracy of my Tavor. I guess I got really lucky. My 18inch RD model is a frigging tack driver. My buddy has a 16.5 OD green version. I seem to get about .5 MOA greater accuracy out of mine. Maybe it's the factory compensator stabilizing the harmonics of the barrel? Maybe I got a super nice barrel? I don't know why it is, but I am happy I got a really good one.

I appreciate your statements and I will continue to research the RBD.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 01:53:40 PM by BullpupT » Logged
m796rider
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2015, 04:40:26 PM »

Thanks for the information. I will be checking out AR15.com to read the reviews. Truth be told, I probably am being a little harsh on the RBD. It's hard for me to get over my past experience with Kel Tec. I will need to do more research on the RBD before I generalize about its attribute.

I truly and honestly hope his design is a winner. I want Kel Tec to prove itself once and for all.
The few things I don't like about it really aren't deal breakers. I'm not crazy about the 1/9 twist, non captive takedown pins, front heaviness, tiny/short top rail, most of all NO Access to the chamber without take down. Double feeds can happen even if the gun is 100%. Magazines seem to have a huge influence on double feeds. A stuck case on top of a live round jammed in the chamber area can be difficult to clear without the ability to atleast see what's going on.

I can overlook those things if the RDB turns out to be as reliable as we all hope. I still can't get straight answers about major issues though...

My two BIG questions have to do with whether or not the barrel is cold hammer forged. This is a HUGE deal for me especially when you consider the price of admission.

Is it over the beach capable? Another HUGE deal for a combat weapon.

I am on my way over to AR15 to check it out.

Oh... Concerning the accuracy of my Tavor. I guess I got really lucky. My 18inch RD model is a frigging tack driver. My buddy has a 16.5 OD green version. I seem to get about .5 MOA greater accuracy out of mine. Maybe it's the factory compensator stabilizing the harmonics of the barrel? Maybe I got a super nice barrel? I don't know why it is, but I am happy I got a really good one.

I appreciate your statements and I will continue to research the RBD.

There is an ongoing Q&A about the RDB with the Kel Tec rep on thektog.org:

http://www.thektog.org/forum/f119/rdb-questions-answered-264644/

There's some good info there, well worth the (quick) read.
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2015, 04:50:32 PM »

Here's a thread with a few guys discussing their
RDBs.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/453235_Keltec_RDB_Range_Review__OP_Updated_11_22_2015_Update_on_Page_3.html

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/454097_Is_the_Keltec_RDB_s_construction_as_cobby_as_it_looks_.html

Also, there are a few youtube reviews of the production version RDB.
One by hankstrange and another by Tactical Existence.
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2015, 06:14:55 PM »

Great links guys, thanks!
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« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2015, 08:47:11 PM »

I induced a few misfeeds by covering up the ejection port and messing with the gas settings. I had a few double feeds and jammed  round/brass. I didnt have to take the weapon apart at all. The way the bolt has to travel over a HUGE ejection port one it gets past the magazine doest allow for a situation where the round/brass has anywhere to go but down. Drop the mag and the mag well is directly under the chamber with a thin wall of metal and plastic forming the wall of the magazine well right behind it. If the Brass/round didnt fall out when ther mag was dropped (90% of the time) , it dropped when the bolt was cycled to the rear over the  massive ejection port.

I could not induce an impingement on this gun, I don't know if its even possible with the way it is designed.

The barrel is 4140 melonite inside and out.  Sure..it isn't mil-spec...but neither is melonite/nitriding and it has turned out well for glocks and AR Precision barrels over the long haul.  CHF manufacturing makes for good barrel as the process requires a huge investment for consistently good and cheaper  production costs... but CHF wear qualities are at best theoretical in a semi-auto weapon. I have found that a quality barrel made out of proper materials is just as accurate as a well made CHF barrel.  I have AR Precision barrels, a Smith and Wesson Barrel both melonite finish, one is a 1/8 twist, both are MOA shooters.

As far as the 1/9 twist goes, it is good from any weight 40g to 70g. I don't consider this a detriment as modern ballistics have made for some devastatingly effective 5.56/.223 rounds in these weights. If a 1/7 twist is a must, you will be glad to hear that the initial production of  RDB's were 1/9 twist and all new production is 1/7 twist ( as per Kel-Tec reps
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« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2015, 09:40:08 PM »

Thank you for real feed back. The 1/9 twist isn't a super deal killer either. I have a 1/9 AR that's pretty darn accurate. Future runs will be in 1/7 from what I have read.

The barrel sounds ok too. I was worried about at button rifled barrel. 4140mis acceptable but just barely. 4150 would increase service life. There have been reports of AK's with 4140 steel barrels wearing prematurely. Checkout Robskie on YouTube... AK Operators channel for more info.

Melonite is great, it's the same thing as Glocks Tenifer, just a different name. My stainless E series 1911 is coated in Melonite. It's rock hard... Still wish the barrel was at least 4150 steel. Again not a deal breaker.

Great info!
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signkutter
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« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2015, 10:03:35 PM »

Thank you for real feed back. The 1/9 twist isn't a super deal killer either. I have a 1/9 AR that's pretty darn accurate. Future runs will be in 1/7 from what I have read.

The barrel sounds ok too. I was worried about at button rifled barrel. 4140mis acceptable but just barely. 4150 would increase service life. There have been reports of AK's with 4140 steel barrels wearing prematurely. Checkout Robskie on YouTube... AK Operators channel for more info.

Melonite is great, it's the same thing as Glocks Tenifer, just a different name. My stainless E series 1911 is coated in Melonite. It's rock hard... Still wish the barrel was at least 4150 steel. Again not a deal breaker.

Great info!

Glad to help.  I also wish the barrel was 4150 simply because it was specified by engineers with a lot more detailed know-how than my meagre layman knowledge provides, but i also take into consideration that a great majority of civilian semi-autos have used 4140 steel for many years and many AK's don't  Chrome line the barrels.  One thing I am curious about is how  Nitriding/melonite/tenifer treatment ...(which provides a harder surface that is a surface treatment of the barrel as opposed to a coating applied to the surface of the barrel steel) will effect the durability/longevity of this RDB barrel... remains to be seen.

So far I am about 1200 rounds through this RDB with no cleaning and a bit over half of those rounds suppressed. At the 1200ish round mark though I did have to increase gas flow when I fired the rifle unsuppressed and I couldn't resist squirting a shot of WD-40 in the chamber and bolt.  Still real happy with the performance of this weapon. I do not doubt that it is possible to get MOA out of this gun with the right ammo weight/brand. I just haven't found it yet.  I don't doubt at all that I could get MOA if I had a reloader friend develop a load for this barrel, I just can get up the will to bother as **2.0 MOA is better than I have been able to get out of my AUG with any ammo.

**edited for accuracy measurement.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 07:28:03 AM by signkutter » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2015, 09:37:16 PM »

I received my RDB two days ago. Aside from having to increase the gas, it wasn't functioning out of the box, I have noticed a few uncomfortable problems and wanted to know if anyone else was having these.

To charge it, you will ram your hand into the side of your optic. I was running an eotech, which has a rather wide and sharp base. The rail seems to have very little space above the charging handle.

At first, it was very hard to tell if my mag was empty or if I had a jam. Since I increase the gas this isnt an issue.

I have noticed that the charging handle will dislodge itself from being in the forward position once the mag is empty, bouncing around without any tension on it.

I didn't know this, but there are actually two positions that the bolt will lock back. When you use the charging handle to lock it, the bolt is very far back and past the ejection port. However, when you lock the bolt back using the bolt release, just behind the mag release, the bolt covers the ejection port, ie farther forward than if you used the charging handle to lock it back. Per the inrange review, if they had the bolt locked back with the bolt release position, I believe this would have prevented mud from getting into it. On the other hand, if it was locked farther back using the charging handle, this would have let mud get into the actual bolt face. Side note, the bolt release behind the mag release I have found to be very, very heavy, 10+ pounds with little purchase.

Lastly, after I had gotten the gas reliable and did some mag dumps, I noticed that the take down pins, particular those in the front, get very hot. So hot that i actually have a small burn. I think it is somehow transferring heat from the barrel. That said, I am putting a vertical grip on it as soon as possible.

That said, if anyone with a production rdb is having these same critiques please let me know.

Some of the pre production RDB's had complaints of accidentally dropping mags on due to the release. My rdb actually has a rather stiff release, so I can't imagine even with gloves accidentally pressing it without knowing.
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2015, 07:35:36 AM »

I received my RDB two days ago. Aside from having to increase the gas, it wasn't functioning out of the box, I have noticed a few uncomfortable problems and wanted to know if anyone else was having these.

To charge it, you will ram your hand into the side of your optic. I was running an eotech, which has a rather wide and sharp base. The rail seems to have very little space above the charging handle.

At first, it was very hard to tell if my mag was empty or if I had a jam. Since I increase the gas this isnt an issue.

I have noticed that the charging handle will dislodge itself from being in the forward position once the mag is empty, bouncing around without any tension on it.

I didn't know this, but there are actually two positions that the bolt will lock back. When you use the charging handle to lock it, the bolt is very far back and past the ejection port. However, when you lock the bolt back using the bolt release, just behind the mag release, the bolt covers the ejection port, ie farther forward than if you used the charging handle to lock it back. Per the inrange review, if they had the bolt locked back with the bolt release position, I believe this would have prevented mud from getting into it. On the other hand, if it was locked farther back using the charging handle, this would have let mud get into the actual bolt face. Side note, the bolt release behind the mag release I have found to be very, very heavy, 10+ pounds with little purchase.

Lastly, after I had gotten the gas reliable and did some mag dumps, I noticed that the take down pins, particular those in the front, get very hot. So hot that i actually have a small burn. I think it is somehow transferring heat from the barrel. That said, I am putting a vertical grip on it as soon as possible.

That said, if anyone with a production rdb is having these same critiques please let me know.

Some of the pre production RDB's had complaints of accidentally dropping mags on due to the release. My rdb actually has a rather stiff release, so I can't imagine even with gloves accidentally pressing it without knowing.
I tried my Eotech but i didnt like the cheek weld I got with it... I am used to using an underhanded grip on the charging handle from using my AUG so I never did rack my knuckles with any mount or optic i have tried.   Didnt have any problems with mag drops in any position. Ditto on the pins getting hot. My accuracy with this gun has settled into 2.0 moa, I got a a group here and there to 1.5 moa ...but not enough to have been luck.
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