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Author Topic: Zero distance?  (Read 47553 times)
MoltElevator9
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« Reply #60 on: August 21, 2015, 03:23:02 AM »

Obsessing on the 75 yard zero for the Tavor is the same as obsessing over the 50 yard zero for the AR. They are both accomplishing the same thing, but compensates for the difference in height over bore per rifle.

The chart is for xm193 with a height over bore of 3.75 for the Tavor.

This.


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BullpupT
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« Reply #61 on: August 21, 2015, 02:10:01 PM »

Obsessing on the 75 yard zero for the Tavor is the same as obsessing over the 50 yard zero for the AR. They are both accomplishing the same thing, but compensates for the difference in height over bore per rifle.

The chart is for xm193 with a height over bore of 3.75 for the Tavor.

This.

Thank you VERY much for the chart. I have always been a 100 yard zero man and I think I will stick with that.  I don't mind aiming a couple inches higher for close range. I just put my ACOG donut on the "head' of the target at close range. I usually get neck and jaw hits on man type targets. I can then use the top of the acog donut for 100 yards, the center hollow section for 200 yards, then the bottom of the donut for 300 yards... I have stadia marks out to 800 after that.

The chart you provided offered a wealth of info. Thanks again!
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MoltElevator9
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« Reply #62 on: August 21, 2015, 06:16:12 PM »

Obsessing on the 75 yard zero for the Tavor is the same as obsessing over the 50 yard zero for the AR. They are both accomplishing the same thing, but compensates for the difference in height over bore per rifle.

The chart is for xm193 with a height over bore of 3.75 for the Tavor.

This.

Thank you VERY much for the chart. I have always been a 100 yard zero man and I think I will stick with that.  I don't mind aiming a couple inches higher for close range. I just put my ACOG donut on the "head' of the target at close range. I usually get neck and jaw hits on man type targets. I can then use the top of the acog donut for 100 yards, the center hollow section for 200 yards, then the bottom of the donut for 300 yards... I have stadia marks out to 800 after that.

The chart you provided offered a wealth of info. Thanks again!

My pleasure.  I was thinking about putting the ACOG (chevron, red) on my Tavor, but I wasn't sure that the stadia lines would correspond to the proper meter marks since mine is the  M4 TA31 M150 RCO version.   Your thoughts?
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BullpupT
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« Reply #63 on: August 22, 2015, 08:16:57 AM »

I think the stadia marks will work fine if you use the recommended settings. The manual I have is for the donut reticle. The manual states the top of the donut 100, center 200, bottom 300.

It is designed for 16 in barrel velocities. The only issue will be close range shots. We are only talking an inch or so difference. The ACOG isn't set up for super precise shots.. At least the donut isn't. It's super fast like the chevron type reticle. The donut or lollipop reticle looks almost like a stick figure with a big red head. I just super impose the donut or "head" of the reticle over the head of the target at close range. The center of the donut becomes the aiming point at super close range.

It has the fiber optic BAC or Bindon Aiming Concept built into it. Keep both eyes open and track the target with the bright fiber optically enhanced aiming point. You then change your focal point to the optics instead of the target... The target zooms into focus with the donut/reticle already in place. It takes place lightning fast!

You should be fine with any acog. I have the 3.5x35mm model. It has a longer eye relief compared to the short 1.5inch eye relief of the 4x models. It is a bit bigger though, it's not that heavy. Lighter than an Elcan. Sight in the top of the donut for 100 yards and everything else falls into place. I took some pictures that I will post later today of the new Gearhead mods and ACOG mounted.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 10:24:17 AM by BullpupT » Logged
MoltElevator9
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« Reply #64 on: August 22, 2015, 08:50:19 AM »

I think the stadia marks will work fine if you use the recommended settings. The manual I have is for the donut reticle. The manual states the top of the donut 100, center 200, bottom 300.

It is designed for 16 in barrel velocities. The only issue will be close range shots. We are only talking an inch or so difference. The ACOG isn't set up for super precise shots.. At least the donut isn't. It's super fast like the chevron type reticle. The donut or lollipop reticle looks almost like a stick figure with a big red head. I just super impose the donut or "head" of the reticle over the head of the target at close range. The center of the donut becomes the aiming point at super close range.

It has the fiber optic BAC or Bindon Aiming Concept built into it. Keep both eyes open and track the target with the bright fiber optically enhanced aiming point. You then change your focal point to the optics instead of the target... The target zooms into focus with the donut/reticle already in place. It takes place lightning fast!

You should be fine with any acog. I have the 3.5x35mm model. It has superior eye relief compared to the tiny 1.5inch eye relief of the 4x models. It is a bit bigger though, it's not that heavy. Lighter than an Elcan. Sight in the top of the donut for 100 yards and everything else falls into place. I took some pictures that I will post later today of the new Gearhead mods and ACOG mounted.


Cool. Maybe I'll swap it then.  I ran a ballistic graph at shooters calculator and the difference is about 3-6" 16" v 14.5" barrels) at far distances I'll never really need.. Not a big difference, just as you suggest.

Mine gets zeroed at tip/100, underside of tip/200, tip of post/25/300 all in meters, then stadia lines accordingly. For the most part, identical to yours.
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reapur
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« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2015, 10:52:01 PM »

OK, I'm feeling dense for not understanding this graph.
Are you saying that at 25yds I should shoot a the green and red bullseye, and the bullet should actually impact at the greyscale target's intersection point (higher than center bullseye)?
I'm zeroing an eotech xps3
Also is the pdf the actual size that I print and shoot at, it seems kind of small.

If yes, then thank you so much. this will make life easier, my range doesn't have a 75 yard target and it would be really hard to measure that out.

Likewise if my range has a 10yd marker that I should aim a the blue/red bullseye and I should get impact at the greyscale inersection point?

Regards


I'm new here and accidentallyI posted this in a wrong thread the other day.  I found this one on my iPhone, but when I searched on the iMac, I caused a resurrected zombie thread and posted on an old zeroing thread thinking it was this one.  My apologies.

Anyway...

I made a simple target set for a Tavor 16" 75 yd battle zero assuming 3.75" HOB.  The neat thing about a 75 yd Tavor zero is that the trajectory is similar to, but just below, the AR-15 50/225 yd battle zero.  Now I don't have to do mental ballistics when switching between the two platforms.

Attached is the PDF for setting a 75 yard zero at short 25 and 10 yard distances.  Just make sure to verify at the actual distance.  The targets include a comparison trajectory of Tavor (100), Tavor (75), and AR-15 (50/225) zeros.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 10:54:19 PM by reapur » Logged
MoltElevator9
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« Reply #66 on: August 24, 2015, 10:09:12 AM »

OK, I'm feeling dense for not understanding this graph.
Are you saying that at 25yds I should shoot a the green and red bullseye, and the bullet should actually impact at the greyscale target's intersection point (higher than center bullseye)?
I'm zeroing an eotech xps3
Also is the pdf the actual size that I print and shoot at, it seems kind of small.

If yes, then thank you so much. this will make life easier, my range doesn't have a 75 yard target and it would be really hard to measure that out.

Likewise if my range has a 10yd marker that I should aim a the blue/red bullseye and I should get impact at the greyscale inersection point?

Regards


I'm new here and accidentallyI posted this in a wrong thread the other day.  I found this one on my iPhone, but when I searched on the iMac, I caused a resurrected zombie thread and posted on an old zeroing thread thinking it was this one.  My apologies.

Anyway...

I made a simple target set for a Tavor 16" 75 yd battle zero assuming 3.75" HOB.  The neat thing about a 75 yd Tavor zero is that the trajectory is similar to, but just below, the AR-15 50/225 yd battle zero.  Now I don't have to do mental ballistics when switching between the two platforms.

Attached is the PDF for setting a 75 yard zero at short 25 and 10 yard distances.  Just make sure to verify at the actual distance.  The targets include a comparison trajectory of Tavor (100), Tavor (75), and AR-15 (50/225) zeros.

Yes the, point of aim on the 25 yard green/red target gives a point of impact in the gray bullseye since the bullet hits 2.25 inches low at 25 yards when the Tavor is zeroed at 75 yards.  Likewise for the blue target, but at 10 yards distance with a 3.12 POI drop.

Sometimes printers will print a scaled document rather than actual size.  I had that happen when trying to AirPrint the target PDF from my iPhone.  Make sure you set the printer to print actual size.  A quick measurement with a ruler or tape should find the major squares 1" x 1" and the red bullseyes 1" diameter.  Therefore, the actual target portion of the document is 4" x 6" on the 25 yard target (4" x 7" on the 10 yard).

At 50 yards, according the the ballistic chart I made these targets from, the POI at 50 yards should be -1.00 from POA.  You can use this as a check instead of verifying at 75 yards.
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reapur
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« Reply #67 on: August 25, 2015, 07:10:22 PM »

Thanks!
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PattonWasRight
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« Reply #68 on: August 27, 2015, 03:21:50 PM »

Check out how dang flat you are in the meat of the trajectory, and out to 300 yards, all at the cost of being only 5 inches low at 300 yards.


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Just Your Average Jewish Redneck.
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« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2015, 03:49:59 AM »

Check out how dang flat you are in the meat of the trajectory, and out to 300 yards, all at the cost of being only 5 inches low at 300 yards.


Yes.  And I would argue that the Tavor's tighter combat effective zone out to 300 yds, compared to the AR's window, is superior.  HOB is a concern, but is negated using the bottom the an EoTech's vertical hash mark for aiming at CQB distances. 
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PattonWasRight
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« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2015, 10:04:40 AM »



Yes.  And I would argue that the Tavor's tighter combat effective zone out to 300 yds, compared to the AR's window, is superior.  HOB is a concern, but is negated using the bottom the an EoTech's vertical hash mark for aiming at CQB distances. 
Indeed. Nice feature on the EoTech.

That graph is set to a 200 yard zero, forgot to mention.
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Chuck S
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« Reply #71 on: August 29, 2015, 08:25:43 AM »

I know of no optic that works well on the Tavor other than the IDF sight.  All the others are calibrated for the M4 Carbine shooting M855 Ball so you'll have to work around this. 

Range lines are especially useless due to trajectory vs line of sight so we're left with computing hold over/under which negates the purpose of battlesight zero.  Battlesight zero just lets us put the tip of the front sight or the dot on the target at any reasonable range and send a bullet.  Infantry targets rarely exceed 100 meters and anything beyond 200 requires a precise shot.  A 200 meter battlesight zero with the M16/M4 keeps the bullet within 2" of line of sight from the muzzle to 220 meters and is superior to anything Tavor can produce.  A 200 meter zero has a convenient first cross over at 50 yards but shoot at 200 to be sure.

-- Chuck
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PattonWasRight
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« Reply #72 on: August 29, 2015, 08:30:49 AM »

Chuck ... not following ya. Click on and enlarge that graph I just posted. You're within a couple of inches from 50 yards all the way out to 250 yards. I'd call that combat effective / combat practical.

Inside of 50 yards, you're low due to the height of the sight/optic over the barrel = makes sense.

Past 250 yards, you're low due to trajectory = makes sense.

Put your sight at the top of the chest / top bullseye at any distance  from 0 to 300 yards, and you're at center mass.

That's why I'm zero'd at 200 yards.

Any optic with vertical  hash marks can let you fine tune more if desired. But with that zero, all I need to remember is to shoot at the top of center mass and I'm good.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 08:43:20 AM by PattonWasRight » Logged

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« Reply #73 on: October 15, 2015, 12:34:18 PM »

I have a new tavor coming and I have a laser bore sight.  It should be pretty simple math to say: If I know my ballistics and my scope's height above bore and I put the cross-hairs right on the laser dot from range "X" then I have zeroed the scope from range "Y". 

Do any of the online ballistic calculators have this feature built in?
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BoomstickBeaner
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« Reply #74 on: October 21, 2015, 05:25:56 PM »

I'm new here and accidentallyI posted this in a wrong thread the other day.  I found this one on my iPhone, but when I searched on the iMac, I caused a resurrected zombie thread and posted on an old zeroing thread thinking it was this one.  My apologies.

Anyway...

I made a simple target set for a Tavor 16" 75 yd battle zero assuming 3.75" HOB.  The neat thing about a 75 yd Tavor zero is that the trajectory is similar to, but just below, the AR-15 50/225 yd battle zero.  Now I don't have to do mental ballistics when switching between the two platforms.

Attached is the PDF for setting a 75 yard zero at short 25 and 10 yard distances.  Just make sure to verify at the actual distance.  The targets include a comparison trajectory of Tavor (100), Tavor (75), and AR-15 (50/225) zeros.

This is fantastic and is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
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rickspeed
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« Reply #75 on: October 22, 2015, 11:25:29 AM »

Thank you   !!!!!

Just replaced my Vortex PST 1-4x MRAD,

Now mounted a Burris XTR  1.5-8x MRAD


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GOTURBACK
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« Reply #76 on: March 27, 2016, 10:47:45 PM »

Rickspeed
How is that vortex working out for you? Does the BDC stadia work with the Tavor trajectory, and what zero did you decide on? I just took my eotech off and am getting a variable 1-4 trying to choose ....

Thanks Chris

Thank you   !!!!!

Just replaced my Vortex PST 1-4x MRAD,

Now mounted a Burris XTR  1.5-8x MRAD
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matter
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« Reply #77 on: April 28, 2016, 04:57:50 PM »

Thank You!  'Xactly what I was lookin' for!
I added 1/4" minor grid lines.  Is this what you are suggesting?
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ASH22
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« Reply #78 on: April 28, 2016, 10:15:26 PM »

Good thread!
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ElTico
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« Reply #79 on: July 09, 2016, 05:54:02 PM »

I don't think you can assume the sight over bore distance given in various forums as a given.
I get 4.32" for  my Tavor & Mepro MOR. Its a good idea to check what it is with your particular setup.
Also I have found it an useful exercise for one to work out the ballistics themselves, determine their optimum solution(s) & try them out on the range. There is a wealth of information in this forum that members are sharing & the shooter's calculator is a great resource. Besides it gives you an excuse to shoot:))
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