Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
May 27, 2017, 02:10:04 AM
Home Home Help Calendar Login Register
News:

Please support BullpupForum.com sponsors!!
. . . Midwest Industries . . . BullpupArmory.com . . . Shooting Sight . . . BullpupUnlimited.com . . . Homeland Guns . . . . . . . . . . . . AB Arms . . . GallowayPrecision.com . . . K & M Arms . . . . . . Geissele Automatics
+  BULLPUP FORUM
|-+  Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire)
| |-+  IWI Tavor & X-95
| | |-+  Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 Print
Author Topic: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory  (Read 60245 times)
2ndunamended
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 16



« Reply #80 on: November 22, 2015, 07:15:11 PM »

Quote
For civilian use, where you can take the time to break down and clean your rifle, and you mostly do not shoot in sand, you can eliminate the extra spring with little consequence.

Before finding this thread, I just started another thread on this topic of removing the spring. From what I've read, it would take the stock trigger down from about 11 lbs. to 8 lbs. (plenty desirable for HD).

Is this advisable? Does it present any short or longer term issues (reliability, trigger reset, etc...)? In addition to reducing the trigger pull, does it also reduce the creep/take-up?

Thank you.
Logged

Against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.

Time to refresh the tree of liberty.
HMLA-167 Warrior
^
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 52



« Reply #81 on: December 14, 2015, 07:50:03 PM »

I've been avoiding this issue, but will fire out my post.

The 'offended' customer Aug556shooter is actually... [snip] ...

So yes, I stand behind my product, and will go to great lengths to make a customer happy.  But I will not abide trolls.


Sorry for the thread resurrection, but not sorry enough not to do it haha.

Art,

I don't know you from Adam, have never met you or purchased anything from you.  Therefore, I had no opinion of you or your business...  until I read this post. The last sentence you wrote really got me.  Bravo. Look forward to purchasing from you in the near future.
Logged

Have guns - Will travel
brodband
.
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 143


« Reply #82 on: January 01, 2016, 04:43:24 AM »

I finally got the lightning bow and Geissele super sabra installed and all I can say is...  Night and day difference.

My only complaint was that I had to remove a lot of plastic material for the lightning bow install.  The trigger bar was rubbing really hard against the inside of the receiver and I had to remove some material from where it was rubbing. 

I installed over and over again, removing a little bit of material at a time until I was finally able to get the trigger to swing freely.  My only concern was that in the lightning bow installation manual, it did show that material would need to be removed, but not from the trigger bar rubbing on the side of the receiver, and it was only after removing all of the rubbing material from what the manual suggested that I was able to also find the other points of wear.

Anyone else run into this?

Other than that, this trigger feels lighter than my SSA-E, it's insane!  I just need to test with a pull gauge to be sure.
Logged
BullpupT
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,306


AF&AM 02


« Reply #83 on: January 01, 2016, 09:26:06 AM »

I just got done installing the Lightning Bow and Geissele hammer pack last night. Thanks again Primary Arms for the sale!

My only issue was getting that darn retaining pin to sit flush on top of the hammer. I finally got the hammer pin in the right position and the retaining pin popped right in.  

It was a bit of a pain in the arsss, but the proper position is to have the dimpled end of the pin flush to the receiver. I was putting the pointed end of the pin flush to the receiver because the mag release pin which pretty much identical to the hammer pin had the pointed end flush.


Once I did this everything else fell into place. I didn't need to remove any material from the receiver. I did need to slightly tap the hammer pin back and forth a few C-hairs to center the trigger. Once I centered it I found there was zero resistance.

I guess I got lucky. I did put a drop of oil on the trigger dimple pin that attaches to the trigger bar. This really smoothed things out, as did some oil on the hammer pin itself. It's amazing what a drop of good oil can do.


Did you center the trigger before removing the material? It took me five or six tries to get it perfectly centered. It was tiny little taps that got it centered... I mean barely move the pin, just a tiny tiny bit of adjustment to get it centered. I then worked the trigger back and forth without the hammer pack in. I must have wiggled back and forth extremely fast about a couple hundred times to break everything in. This technique also smoothed things out considerably. My trigger is so "free floating" now that it will wiggle foward and back just by shaking the rifle slightly... Without the hammer pack installed of course.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 09:28:15 AM by BullpupT » Logged
brodband
.
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 143


« Reply #84 on: January 02, 2016, 10:43:11 PM »

Yes I attempted to center the trigger.  It didn't matter what position it was in, when I first dropped the trigger in, it was so snug it would barely move at all. 

I have an IDF that is under a 500 serial number so I'm not sure if it being an older model has anything to do with it?
Logged
BullpupT
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,306


AF&AM 02


« Reply #85 on: January 02, 2016, 10:57:05 PM »

Yes I attempted to center the trigger.  It didn't matter what position it was in, when I first dropped the trigger in, it was so snug it would barely move at all. 

I have an IDF that is under a 500 serial number so I'm not sure if it being an older model has anything to do with it?

The early serial number might be the reason. I notice a rectangle section of polymer that was relieved from the factory right where the nub of the trigger connects to the trigger bar. They might of changed if updated the molds in later models. My serial is in the 40k range... A much later gun.

Removing the polymer properly and a little bit at a time won't effect the performance, safety, or reliability in the least. It's nice we both got them working. It's like a whole new rifle!
Logged
semper paratus
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 605


Always Ready - even 4 the - zombie apocalypse


« Reply #86 on: January 03, 2016, 03:25:03 PM »

Huh?? - are you having to remove plastic in order to install the trigger pack or just to install the Bow?  If you are removing any part of the plastic - don't you risk effecting any warrantee?

I have Art's triggers in my Tavors and love them
Logged
BullpupT
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,306


AF&AM 02


« Reply #87 on: January 03, 2016, 08:36:29 PM »

He is referring to removing material around the Lightning Bow, not the trigger pack. Mine was fine but I have a late made Tavor.

Anyone how has a trigger pack from any manufacturer should really try out the Lightning Bow. It gets rid of all the take up, the heavy trigger spring is eliminated. It makes the trigger packs feel a lot better. You thing your trigger feels good now with Art's trigger, Timney, or Geessele without the Bow?   

You wouldn't believe the difference the Lightning Bow makes. The stock trigger spring works against the upgraded trigger packs because it creates un needed resistance and additional weight in the trigger pull.  It's well worth the money, and less than 100 bucks.
Logged
Aussie E
.
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 964



« Reply #88 on: January 03, 2016, 10:04:57 PM »

There were a couple of members that installed it on ShootingSight triggers and felt it was too light, also there were some concerns that it eliminated the OEM triggers built in safety.

AE
Logged
BullpupT
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,306


AF&AM 02


« Reply #89 on: January 04, 2016, 09:23:39 AM »

There were a couple of members that installed it on ShootingSight triggers and felt it was too light, also there were some concerns that it eliminated the OEM triggers built in safety.

AE

Understood... Thank you for the additional information. The 2 stage design is made so you can have a light trigger safely. The sear is not exposed until you reach the second stage of the trigger pull. There is a ton of "meat" or metal protecting the hammer from releasing until you reach the wall of the 2nd stage. They really are safe triggers even when you are talking sub 4lbs pulls. They aren't like 1911 single stage triggers. You can safely have a 2 stage trigger and not have to worry about it going off.

My Geissele breaks under 3.5lbs at the 2nd stage but I could drop it repeatedly from 6 feet dozens of times without it going off. I know this because Geissele tested their product this way. They dropped the rifle so many times the barrel pin sheared off before the trigger went off. They dropped it hundreds of times I guess before the barrel pin failed.

I am sure Art's 2 stage trigger would survive the same drop test seeing as its a 2 stage design.

The Timney might be an issue because I think its more of a single stage trigger, without the 2 stage safety design built into it. People shouldn't confuse the two because they are very different triggers both in terms of feel and safety.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 09:31:00 AM by BullpupT » Logged
ShootingSight
.
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 510



WWW
« Reply #90 on: January 08, 2016, 02:16:19 AM »

The issue is that there is a safety in the trigger linkage, where you need to actually pull the trigger to cam the linkage up over a stop.  This is intended so that the trigger linkage cannot move forward, unless the trigger is pulled.  You can try it on an OEM setup, by removing the trigger pack and sticking your finger up there and trying to push the trigger linkage forward - it is blocked.

Removing that safety feature means that if something, like an impact, were to propel the trigger linkage, or the trigger pack forward, there is no safety block to stop it.  ShootingSight just does not feel comfortable selling such a product, which is why the idea of a replacement trigger was abandoned early in the development process.
Logged

Art Neergaard
ShootingSight LLC
www.shootingsight.com
shootingsight@fioptics.com
513-702-4879
DILLIGAF
.
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 273



« Reply #91 on: January 08, 2016, 06:04:53 PM »


I am sure Art's 2 stage trigger would survive the same drop test seeing as its a 2 stage design.


The TAV-D with trigger Bow passes the drop tests  Wink   

Logged
Aussie E
.
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 964



« Reply #92 on: January 08, 2016, 09:10:04 PM »


I am sure Art's 2 stage trigger would survive the same drop test seeing as its a 2 stage design.


The TAV-D with trigger Bow passes the drop tests  Wink   



What is the weight of the 2nd stage?

AE
Logged
DILLIGAF
.
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 273



« Reply #93 on: January 08, 2016, 11:21:53 PM »

Logged
Ltrshooter
^
New Posting Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4


« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2016, 09:43:00 PM »

If I install a lightning bow, will that decrease the pull weight on a stock trigger pack?  Can anyone else confirm that the lightning bow will decrease the pull using a tav d pack.  I am considering both but do not want to get pull weight below about 3 pounds.  Also, any more information on how a lightning bow defeats stock trigger safety. Thanks
Logged
BullpupT
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,306


AF&AM 02


« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2016, 03:34:51 PM »

If I install a lightning bow, will that decrease the pull weight on a stock trigger pack?  Can anyone else confirm that the lightning bow will decrease the pull using a tav d pack.  I am considering both but do not want to get pull weight below about 3 pounds.  Also, any more information on how a lightning bow defeats stock trigger safety. Thanks

It will probably reduce it by more than a pound and you will loose that ridiculous squirt gun feeling to the trigger. The stock trigger has a strong spring that is removed and not reinstalled when you use the lightning bow.

You can use the Lightning bow with both Geissele and Arts hammer packs due to their two stage design.

I have both the Geissele hammer back and Geissele trigger bow. My trigger pull is 3.3-3.8 pounds all day long. It has never broke under 3lbs. Not sure about Arts hammer pack.

The lightning bow is the best bang for your buck with the Tavor.
Logged
Tavor5.56mm
^
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 25


« Reply #96 on: March 06, 2016, 06:48:49 PM »

There were a couple of members that installed it on ShootingSight triggers and felt it was too light, also there were some concerns that it eliminated the OEM triggers built in safety.

AE

I was going to get one of the Lightning bows but I already have a light SS trigger it's at about 4 pounds. And honestly I pull through the slack and 1st stage as one and it doesn't bother me. The biggest issue I could have in a trigger is the break not being crisp. And as owners of Arts triggers know, they are crisp as crisp gets. I was one of the unlucky ones who had fit issues because of my particular rifle. Art sent me a delrin replacement since he was out of aluminum and I said "sure I'll take it"but in the end I shipped back the delrin and made mine work. In the end the aluminum one felt just a tad better and it could have been all placebo effect of me liking the aluminum looks better for all I know. But I do know this, Art stands behind his products and makes a high quality trigger pack.  I've  had some fantastic groupings with my tavor, razor core and the TAV-D.
I haven't tried the super sabra and honestly I don't have any reason to. If I had another tavor I might buy the super sabra just for comparison. Is hard to improve perfection but that's just my opinion.

I realize some of that message didn't have anything to do with what I quoted you about but, I tend to ramble.
.
Logged
Ltrshooter
^
New Posting Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4


« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2016, 10:03:04 PM »

Thanks for replies.  I have a Garand and like to support private businesses.  I got the trigger bow first because its cheaper and I did not like so much take up and it dropped my pull about 2 pounds on the stock trigger pack.  I now have about a 6 + lb  single stage trigger.  I am going to use it for a while and probably later get a new trigger pack to lower the weight further, and in general, I prefer a two stage trigger.  So my answer is the new trigger dropped my stock pull by about two more pounds.  Boy the stock set up was pretty lousy at over 11.
Logged
RCShadow
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 23



« Reply #98 on: March 18, 2016, 09:57:12 PM »

I feel at a distinct disadvantage.  We ordered both our Tavor IDF's with the Geissele trigger pack installed.  Because of this, my wife and I have never fired ours with the stock setup.  We do have the factory packs stored if needed though.
Logged
Rick53
.
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,139


« Reply #99 on: March 19, 2016, 09:53:17 AM »

There were a couple of members that installed it on ShootingSight triggers and felt it was too light, also there were some concerns that it eliminated the OEM triggers built in safety.

AE
Art does have TAV-D Packs that are heavier . I have one and you can feel the difference between that and the standard Tav-D
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 Print 
Jump to:  



Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!