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Author Topic: BUYER BEWARE! - Kushnapup stock for Saiga 12  (Read 17537 times)
Sgt_P
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« on: September 13, 2010, 12:42:32 PM »

I spoke with the guy's at Kushnapup.  Much like this website, they are just getting started (sort-of, it's a long story), and think the product will hit the streets about December.  It appears the pre-orders are significant to funding the initial production runs...

Good guys, and a great looking product.  I look forward to testing one out!!!

« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 08:56:00 PM by Sgt_P » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2010, 11:48:20 PM »

I saw the youtube videos.  Undecided
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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 11:36:27 AM »

semi-auto bullpup shotgun - I'm in!

giving money for a non-existant product - I'm waiting!
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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2011, 03:24:10 PM »

UPDATE...

latest email from Kushnapup:


Quote
Jan 28, 2011  10:50pm

 So by now everybody wants to know about ETA right?  Well here it goes- In these past 2 months we’ve had a couple ups and downs (mostly ups). There were a couple of minor set backs that came up over December which has caused a slight delay.  One of the problems was with a cnc welded part having a slight inconsistent scale so all of those had to be replaced and now any one of the 1,000 fits identically.  This was the only problem other than everything else taking a bit longer than we expected.  Shipping will occur during this spring.  If something were to go wrong at this point the latest for shipping would be early this summer but we don’t foresee anything else in causing this. I'll keep you as well informed as I can.

   The molds are still being tooled with some added reinforcements of internal semi-radiuses’ to strengthen all drafts on the inside of the stocks.  In our mold the factory is adding hex nut static inserts on the outsides so you don’t have to insert the hex nuts 1 at a time yourselves with the possibility of losing any of them, they are now metal threading molded to the stock and they will prevent stripping of the threads if you were to screw directly into the plastic as some have had questions about.  After all this we will have one last test of the production model you will be receiving which will take us only about 3 days. Everybody is getting anxious including me.  I can't speed up this process any faster but I can prevent it from slowing down and it's still going smooth all the way.

  There’s so many new emails coming in, a lot more than I expected. I can’t always answer all of them now, but I will always respond to those of you that have placed an order already.  Yes we will be shipping soon and it’s looking really good!  Unfortunately though the way we are doing this it has taken a bit longer but it’s better.  It is very near now, it’s so close it’s around the corner. We intend to be the first high quality, high capacity semi-auto bullpup shotgun stock system on the market since we officially opened our doors on Aug 1st  2010.

  We are using google gmail as receipt system for your transactions and when they are done all we do is print all of them out, paper cut heavy glue them to shipment package and drop them off at the post office.  Thank you all!

 

Sincerely,


Kushnapup LLC
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2011, 11:04:22 AM »

looks like they did there homework any prices yet? I have a 12 & 20 Saiga I need to get working on I have over 50 projects as of now 18 Ak kits sheet metal frames 6 milled receiver Ak  and 2 rpd that need to be built another 12 or so kits and a retro AR-15 nam clone & Blackhawk down clone so things hectic in the bering sea shop. Kim
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2011, 11:17:20 AM »

"pre-orders" are $199, but production hasn't started yet (several deadlines have been pushed back)

I would call BS on this product, but I have heard that refunds have been given when asked by those tired of waiting, so maybe it is a legit attempt at the new product.  Undecided
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 08:20:21 AM »

Latest Update from Kushnapup:

Quote
As you can all see we have reached nearly 1,000 orders and shipping is about to occur. In the meantime as supply inventory is being stocked this is a one time production run, (This is why we are manufacturing the highest quantity up front and making sure it runs smoothly), so order your stocks upfront while supply builds…

   At this point in time if you risk transferring your Saiga to a gunsmith for them to legally possess, they may not be able to return it to you.  Use caution and if presenting opinion about particular makes and models of firearm on public forums be polite, the ATF monitors and researches what is said.  We are all leaders and all have families and moral standard which we follow. Our stocks are made in the USA and will be shipping before summer.

  The Saiga 12 is the most popular shotgun now, consequently though in the next few months to come ATF is making new definition limitations to 922r legal compliance on foreign imports of a shotgun.  This limitation and complete restriction will occur only to importing Saiga’s and will prevent all saiga shotguns from being imported from Russia permanently on April 1st. American innovation still strives and will hopefully continue.  At this point in time, what could you do?  Send a letter to your state senator and ATF to let them know that by restricting the import of saiga shotguns they are closing down the last of small businesses all over the United states which were promised to be supported.  Criminals prefer 10 round handguns left over from the post ban era along with bolt action 22’s with coke bottle silencers.  No Saiga has ever been the statistic in a crime nor will they be because it is already well regulated.  This new law proposed may not go into effect, but will not affect domestically made firearms and products and at this point in time all we have to do is put in the final 50% payment for the molds which costed nearly 100 thousand dollars total since the start of engineering.

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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 09:53:28 AM »

Another update, this time saying July, 2011...
 Undecided

Quote
Hi everybody,

Here are a few Kushnapup updates:

We have received many requests for newsletter signup that gmail temporarily disabled us from sending current news to you in our contacts due to exceeding their maximum number of subscribed emails allowed.  We will be fixing this so all who missed our newsletter will get it this second time around.

We expect to be shipping in the range of July 1st – July 31st.  This is the estimated time of when our first production run of 1,000 stocks will be complete and fully packaged to ship.  We will not be waiting to receive exactly 1,000 pre orders before we ship, but it is possible at this time the number of your orders can reach that level.

A deal sheet for retail quantity discount ordering will be included for 10 or more orders.  The stock fits all the calibers of Saiga Shotguns AND Rifles.  We are thankful for your patience and we are including free giveaways as well for most everyone who has already placed order.

If you choose to send us money order with specific instructions we follow them diligently.  As for AMEX American Express, we no longer accept them as per their higher rates on transactions and added annual fees.  Some people think our product is a risk to put $200 pre order on, but it’s not compared to sending your gun off to someone with a check for $1,250.

We understand the information on our contact page has not changed because the next time that it’s changed all it will say is something like this – “We are now in full stock and shipping”.

Sincerely,

 

Kushnapup LLC

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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2011, 12:08:49 PM »

And another:

Quote
Hey Everyone,

  I'm going to keep this message simple.  Our shipping date is in sight and it does look like it's securing down to the July 1st - July 31st range.  If something is to occur which could cause delay I can't see it holding us up to shipping any later than Aug 15. (Our trucks being high jacked by unpaid ATF agents and things like that, this is America you know how it is now)  We're providing you with the genuine opportunity to police yourselves... This is good news!  Like we said from day one, we're bringing it to you and along the way the quality was refined and increased much better than what we had originally anticipated.  The ATF binding research "the study of the importability of certain shotguns" is now closed... So get yours while you still can.
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2011, 12:19:46 PM »

Here's another update...

Quote
Forecast is: 

Scheduled completion of the molds will be on July 29th from our factory, sample injection shots occur at this time, shipping in the range of August (depending on results of last torture test).  Our facilities are on track and we have ramped up as much as we can to try to get them out to you as soon as we can.  The production will not stop!

Yes we have had other ideas for Saiga products which people have been requesting.  But first things first, we will get around to disclosing those after we ship to you.  The price on our gunstock’s are marked down from MSRP for the temporary wait on pre ordering before we are in full supply.  Along the way the quality of this product increased tremendously and we did implement suggestions early on to make it all around much better.  It has been good hearing everyones enthusiasm towards something new and better to butt stroke to the head of the market while we bash our way through.

If you have cancelled your order and have been refunded please do not “look us up” and call me talking up a storm about why you didn’t receive your stock.  Your not going to get anywhere with us unless you place an order and keep it reserved.  We are a fair company and as stated please read the terms & conditions upon placing your order, there is nothing to panic about, no one has been forgotten and all orders are in order to ship as steady completed manufacturing occurs.

Generally we do not take phone calls because it distracts time away from production.   Please, emails only as I can respond to them in detail and better convenience.  Many of you have been with me on this placing orders and some of you tried even before I had the website up with the privilege allowing pre orders.  If you have run out of patience... No one can say that nothing has happened here, check the numbers of our orders...  We’re going to be shipping whether slumped over companies like it or not, we’re in this business to KILL and DEFEND.  In the beginning, developing our refined product we were told:


1) It is impossible to swap mags without taking your firing hand off the grip.


2) Who wants to buy a product from a website that hasn’t changed?


3) Who wants to buy a product from a website that keeps on changing...


4) It is impossible for a bullpup shotgun to be fired from the hip


5) It cannot be fired from the shoulder


6) It cannot accept a drum mag


7) A bullpup cannot be fired with one hand


Cool All perfectly functioning Saiga’s must be transferred to a gunsmith for them to charge you extra!


9) There could be no AK bullpup... (BTW Our stock works with all Saiga calibers and gauges in 12, 20 , 410, 308, 7.62x39, .223 universally).


This newsletter is not based on a dated 1st and 15th sending system, it has been generalized monthly from when we receive quotes and estimates from our in house sources combined.  This is Kushnapup LLC, the only distributor of a high quality bullpup stock for your readily adaptable AK type platforms starting with Saiga imports.  The green button has been pushed and we’ll get some video in the factory on a 24 hour production cycle to show you what we’ve been up to at which time we will be shipping as well.  So keep an eye open and don’t miss out, stay notified to our last newsletter to be the first to receive our product on your block.

I don't know if these guys are legit' or not, but as this drags out, you can see the frustration in the update (showing up as *****in'...)
I have heard that everyone that requested a refund has gotten one.  So that might speak to the legitimacy...

Time will tell...
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2011, 11:05:18 PM »

I love my saiga twelve.........and it will of course be a bullpup someday, with or without kushnapup....here's a little teaser video I made of her the other day, I call her Natasha!

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVFXc71_V7M
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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2011, 11:57:14 AM »

I'm calling "Vapor-ware" on the Kushnapup.

Reading the detials is brutal to understand, and it's now looking like August maybe...

Too much drama!

BS!   Tongue
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2011, 12:41:00 PM »

August update from Kushnapup...

Quote
As time winds down to it’s final moment on an earth weighing 6600 trillion tons traveling at 67,000 mph spinning at .00069 rpm, prepare yourselves before it’s to late...  There’s 3 completed molds all finished and the last and largest part side of the stock will be finished not on Aug 10th, but Aug 11th.  All parts from molds are identical to the prototype, except for the fact that now the plastic has repeated consistency and the durability of a jack hammer. You’ve got to get yours before it’s to late, shipping date is locking down close to nearly a month from now.  Attached are some snapshots of the molds in progress as they were 30 days ago.  The tooling has been slow, but surgically precise…

Along with everyone else I have been patient to get the stock as well, now is your chance to get what you can depend on.  You see it and it’s happening now.  We’re going to be giving out more than what you paid for. So look out and mark the day counting down on your calendar.  We appreciate your gratitude in making all of this happen, thank you all again!

Sincerely,
Kushnapup LLC




« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 12:42:58 PM by Sgt_P » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2011, 05:22:08 PM »

Here's the latest update from Bjorn Muller of Kushnapup:

Quote
This is it everybody, here is where we are at!

If orders reach 1,000 pre orders before we ship we will cease to allow any new orders.  We have been working aggressively in finalizing production to get it to you.  The molds have been completed and the first set of high impact, heat resistant stocks have been tested extensively. You can waste your time cruising over the stock with a vehicle testing it’s strength, or you can get in and out of a vehicle without having to re orient the guns pointed direction from it’s original 13.5” longer length getting stuck between doorways and around hallways. The stock has the resilience and strength to withstand anything the gun itself can, it may even last for a lifetime of use, more than10, 000 rounds.   Folks, with what we’ve been testing Kushnapup is pushing on the edge of 10 gauge!

I tested the first samples with  12GA 3” Magnum steel 1 7/8 oz. shot.  Those rounds are about TWICE as powerful as the 12GA 3” Magnum 1 oz. slugs… I fired 800 of them and got a black and blue shoulder so continued by firing nearly all of them 1 handed.  After that many rounds of the most powerful cartridges that a Saiga can take before the gun itself explodes there was a slight deformation of one small area of plastic inside the stock (which we’ve had to implement a trace line widening the tooling in that location into the mold thickening a draft angle inside the stock) to prevent it from bending after excessive use, but generally there’s also some breaking in of the stock when you fire from the slight variations of manufacture in tolerances between calibers of shotguns and rifles offered by Saiga.

You can throw it out of the top floor of a 10 story building onto the concrete sidewalk and everything will be broken on your gun except for our stock.  The monopod sliding rail connecting it’s grips will allow you to lay in a prone position with stock resting on sandbags minimizing your exposure to incoming fire.  It’s reloading time is faster and more powerful than any other shotgun with extra loaded mags at your side, excellent for guerrilla’s and the new stock is lightweight - weighing in at just 2 lbs, only ½ lb difference from your original stock that you will be replacing.

So gear up while we’re in the trenches before we all rise up.  It’s everyone’s choice, but we cannot play the hero by taking phone calls nor by approving credit card information over the phone for areas of the United States that have been declared into marshal law.  You can secure your order online today while there’s still a chance through our website www.Kushnapup.com while there’s only just a little bit of time left.  We will be in full supply during this month in September and shipping very shortly, stay tuned to this newsletter and thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,
Bjorn G Muller <Kushnapup@gmail.com>
SPC Muller USAR1996-2004
Kushnapup LLC
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2011, 01:34:28 PM »

We invited Kushnapup to come or send a demo unit, but it didn't come through in the end.  Hopefully they will come out or send a demo unit for Bullpup Shoot 2012.
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« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2011, 11:15:17 PM »

anyone here own a saiga 12ga that can give me a aprox measurment from the end of the gun frame"where it would be mounted in a bullpup"to the center of the ejection port?  just curious if it may fit in the one im making,john
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2011, 08:54:03 AM »

I don't own one, but here's a picture on peg board (typical hole spacing in peg-board is 1")



« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 09:00:06 AM by Sgt_P » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2011, 09:04:55 AM »

thanks,this will be a easy bullpup build when i get a saiga next yr hopefully..
man my 870 build would look sick with that mag stickin out Grin
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2012, 04:44:58 AM »

Here is a recent e-mail exchange I've had with the man.


DERP DERP DERP

On Feb 12, 2012 2:44 AM
  Ok, bud i contacted quite some time ago and you promised shipping your products shortly. you promised shipping a very long time ago. i have been burned a few times in my life and i knew better than to order a product that has never been on the market. i took the time tonight to research the forums about your product. there are literally thousands of people who called your product "vaporware" insisting your product is just a ghost and nothing more.

furthermore there are more and more post of your e-mails showing your vague responses and constant statement of when it will ship. it also shows the poor treatment your exhibiting towards customers. some have posted threats you have made while others posted a bad attitude you exhibit.

i also found information showing a purported detailed summary of where all the money you have relieved has gone. i found it repulsive because if it is true you have no product to ship, you have spent the money on a good Christmas, spent the money on quite a few things to improve your life and spent very little trying to get your consumers a product you promised.

the bottom line is hardcharger you cant keep taking people's money and not produce a product. it's very piss poor planning to operate the way you do. you send very vague emails to everyone keeping a growing number of consumers waiting on something you have failed to produce. you have not shipped one single stock to date. your actions show your indecisive, unprepared and have no formal education.

you can consider this e-mail however you want and take it however you want. I am being truthful and with the emergence of these documents online I cant help but wonder if your just pulling a scam for as long as you can.

If that is true then my friend you have crossed both criminal and civil boundaries to a level that is unacceptable.

This in my opinion is a federal case because it crosses state lines and is more than grounds for a major class action civil suit.

My suggestion is you better start sending refunds or give a detailed summary with pictures and video to your consumers showing exactly what is happening. Publish an official letter of statement as to why your piss poor planning has landed you with a title of "vaporware producer".

Thank you
 
 
Re: Web Contact:Shipping

Kushnapup (kushnapup@gmail.com)

2/13/12 1:15AM

To: (ive erased my e-mail)

DERP DERP DERP


Here is my response to his 3 letter e-mail.

Excellent response, it shows quite a level of maturity. Do not worry I will not write to you anymore. 



I am sorry but the stock looks very nice and it is something many people want. Just wish there was someone who knew what they were doing and wasnt so lazy.
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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2012, 04:29:31 PM »

Are these Bullpups available yet?  I am sick of manf taking pre-orders for stocks.  I did it with JAllen on their stock for my M14 and that was the last time.  I was so happy when JTact came out with their Bullpup and it was IN STOCK!  I bought one so fast.... I wasn't waiting around.   It is always the same thing with these companies on the e

I would love to have a nice stock to pop the Saiga into.
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