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Author Topic: Tavor Accuracy  (Read 55719 times)
VASCAR2
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2014, 06:09:00 PM »

I function tested my Tavor with 55 grain FMJ but have been doing most of my shooting with Sierra 69 SMK Factory 2nds.  I loaded them with 23 grains of TAC or 22 grain of N-135 with CCI 41 primers.

Off the bench at 125 yards both loads averaged 2.5 to 3 inch 5 shot groups using my EO Tech or iron sights.

I have a scope I'm going to put on my Tavor and see if the groups improve after the weather breaks. 

For the intended purpose the Tavor is accurate enough, If I need more accuracy I'll use my 20" 6.5 Grendel.
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Slateman
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« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2014, 10:00:41 AM »

I wonder how much it would help with removing the rubber spacer on the barrel under the front sight.

Marginal. It is what it is. Until someone makes a match grade barrel, you're not going to get much better than 2-3 MOA.
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Mg42
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« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2014, 10:46:33 PM »

If you're using Eotech at100 yards you have no magnification you will not get a site picture and get definition shot without some kind of scope for magnification. And with a little patience for the new triggers for the Tavor you'll even get a better shot because of the trigger pull Will be about 4 pounds instead of the original  trigger weight is about 1, and even if you took the spring off you're still getting 8 1/2 pound trigger poll. So with a decent scope and a better trigger you probably be extremely happy.
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Tombs
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« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2014, 12:07:28 AM »

I'm seeing pretty good accuracy at 100m.

I'll let the picture speak for its self. I think the reason people are ending up with such large groups is either their optics or not being used to a trigger that heavy.

This was shot with a 18" tavor with a surefire brake and a TA31F, rested on my range bag.


* Target.jpg (326.32 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 823 times.)
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TrickyMathMan
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« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2014, 05:11:06 PM »

Not to be "that guy" but that picture can't speak for itself. A 3 shot group is statistically insignificant  Was that your best group of the day? Were any other of the groups similar in size but had a different POI? Lots and lots factors (standard deviation among the ammo, etc)
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Tombs
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« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2014, 05:57:04 AM »

Had no problem turning out that accuracy once the erector in the TA31F had settled after sight in.

Firearms are more accurate than you are. I've discovered most things people claim 3moa with, I will manage 1. It's all about trigger control and consistent cheek placement behind the optic. Most the time people screw up the latter thinking that marketing hype defies physics.
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RoniRider
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« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2014, 12:50:10 PM »

I have a Tavor IDF version and have discovered that while accuracy is initially very good, it tapers off quickly once the barrel starts to heat up.  Here are some pics of accuracy starting and ending of three (3) 30 round mags fired slowly over 45 minutes.  The targets were placed at 50 yards and I was shooting from a stable sitting shooting position.  The first pic is a cold bore group.  The second target is the last 6 rounds of the 3rd magazine. As you can see the group opens ups and goes high right.  I was shooting 55gr Tula (which cycles perfectly).  I have duplicated these result so this is not a onetime result or the ammo.
At the same time, my friend shooting Armscorp 55gr FMJ through left hand version Tavor 16" SAR Flattop did the same thing after a couple of magazines. 

SO...from my point, M4 may experience better accuracy over a sustained shooting period than a Tavor due to its pencil thin barrel.  Anyone else experience similar results? 


* photo 1.JPG (97.81 KB, 640x478 - viewed 639 times.)

* photo 2.JPG (100.34 KB, 640x478 - viewed 571 times.)
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Check Six Training LLC
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« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2014, 09:24:21 PM »

 I am definitely not trying to bust on you or your friend, but all of my shots, 0-60, over a 15 minute period
are touching as your two are at the 0700 position.  I was shooting from a prone position with a bipod at 25-50 yards.  I was also shooting 62 gr. ss-109.  I have owned, trained, and taught (for over 18 years)with many different firearms and if that is is best accuracy there is a big problem.   These do have a very different trigger pull when compared to an AR platform, if that is what you are used too.  As I  am sure you are aware, they also have a 1 in 7 twist barrel so the 55 grain bullet may not stabilize at 50 yards, especially once the barrel warms up.  I hope something I typed might help you figure this out.  Let us know.
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S. Jens
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RoniRider
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« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2014, 06:11:52 PM »

Tackelberry,

I am also versed in shooting as I have been formally trained and am also an instructor as well for 22 years.  The Tavor is not my first bullpup as have owned Steyr USR (which gave better groups even after mag dumps).  I have  owned, shot and trained with various M16A2/M4/AR15/XM177/MP5/M40A1/FP10..the list goes on...so lets remove all doubt that THIS shootier is the variable.

Now with that being said, 1/7 twist has no impact on this situation since the 4 round are in the black minus the flyer round.  The last 6 are not even touching the black is a clear indicator that the thin barrel is an issue on this particular Tavor IDF version and my friends 16" TAVOR flattop version.  Like I said I have duplicated these results. 

While a SS109 62gr would stabilize in a 1/7, a 55gr will also stabilize just fine in 1/7 so that is a moot point. The manual even calls for M193 (55gr FMJ) as well as SS109. 

So I am curious if yours is getting tight groups with 60 rounds in 15 min., have you gone up to 90+ rounds.  I am thinking it is a fouling issue or thin barrel issue.  Most review out there put all their eggs in the basket for accuracy based on cold bore accuracy.  A POI shift after barrel heat up that much even at 300m would miss the target.  M16A2/M4 seems like it can out-perform this weapon at 300~500m with iron sights.  I know the Marine Corps is the only branch that trains to 500m standards, but those are the standards I stuck with when comparing all combat type weapons.

What do you think?  Could it be a fouling issue or a thin barrel issue?  I wish there were heavier barrel option out there, but I guess we will have to wait for that. 

Anyone else have any similar experience with drifting groups?
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« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2014, 08:29:48 PM »

Ronni rider,
 This is my first bull pup rifle.  Having used the AR platform for most of my career  I never saw the need to buy a gun that would inherently be known to have a crappy trigger pull.  That being said, I have always respected Israeli training, soldiers, and weapons they produce.  I still cannot believe people think a class 3 Uzi is not accurate because it is an open bolt gun. 
  I cannot speak about any potential fouling issue as I have not noticed any in my gun.  You may be on to something with the light barrel.  As for mag dumps, I cannot give you any feedback, because I don't do them.
  As far as your credentials, I was not questioning them.  I was only trying to help out based on the limited experience I have with this particular weapon system.
  Basically, my Tavor is equipped with extras that I did not have mounted on any other gun.  My first purchase for my Tavor will be one of the "more acceptable" trigger groups when they are released.  Good luck, and please let us know when you figure it out.
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S. Jens
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ed9339
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« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2014, 08:59:21 PM »

Compared to the M16, M16A1 the Tavor performs in par with any M16/AR15 I've ever carried as a service rifles it may lag slightly against the Match grade HB but then we are not comparing apples with apples.  All and all IWI has a solid tool and I have no issue or issue with conscience with evangelizing its merits.
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RoniRider
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« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2014, 09:00:15 PM »

Tackelberry,

Forums are always difficult to gauge and send relays without hearing the tone of the person writing the reply.  I didn't mean to sound like I was making this a d&$k measuring contest, just trying to convey that we share a similar background and experience. 
I am a big fan of Uzis since I own 5 of them.  Having shot micro, mini and full Uzis I was impressed with tier ability.  Close bolt FA is insane.  I would love to know how the tavor handles in the 9mm. 

As far as this issue I will foul up the barrel then leave it dirty and go shoot another day to see if it gives a tight group or high and right.  I find this both interesting and disappointing to see my rifle shoot this way.
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« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2014, 10:11:07 PM »

Definitely uncharacteristic of an Israeli weapon system.  Let us know how your test turns out.  Good luck.
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S. Jens
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Scouse
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« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2014, 10:44:13 PM »

My problem is this, my Son asked me to pick out an overall weapon, in 5.56.

I own a Steyr AUG  Some twenty years old, with the 1.5 fixed optic. The AUG is a good rifle, great magazines.  But it is an old design, never been keen on M16 magazines though.

What would be the best magazines to buy? To complement a Tavor 16"

And what optic?  Something quick, both eyes open?

I just want to spread the blame?
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David Sarnoff
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« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2014, 10:48:55 PM »

Quick and both eyes open . . . I love my AimPoint PRO.  A great package for about $415 retail.
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Scouse
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« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2014, 10:55:08 PM »

Thank you David, researching now.
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RoniRider
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« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2014, 10:56:09 PM »

I have the Mepro 21 with a triangle reticle, but I prefer the bullseye reticle.  My IDF version came with the triangle when I ordered it.  It is 1.0x optic.  No batteries and bright to the ambient conditions.  Even at night due to the tritium element.  Well with the money.  Not crazy about the glare off of the fron t lens.  My steyr was a little slow on the mag change but I can say the Tavor with practice will be as fast or faster as a M4.  I have used various mags in my tavor and I am partial to the CAA mags only because it is the same type that came with the rifle.  I have never been a fan of vertical foregrips and I think that was one thing that led me to selling my steyr other than rally. Wanting a tavor.  Back to mag question, CAA offers some good mags but they will not be 922r compliant if you worry about those things since they are made in Israel.   They do look good in that rifle though.  I have never really care about what mag I put in my rifle until it didn't work.  
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 11:04:52 PM by RoniRider » Logged
Scouse
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« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2014, 11:03:40 PM »

Never used the wee fore grip on my AUG, except for disassembly!

Standing, I hold the front of the knuckle protector. With left hand, tuck elbows out of harms way.
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« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2014, 08:50:59 AM »

For a red dot sight my preference is an Aimpoint.  I have the ml-2 on mine.  Any of the better quality sights, Mepro, Eotech, Aimpoint, Trijicon will all do a good job.  Again, it is just preference .
  For mags, I agree with RoniRider, I like the mags that are shipped with the Tavor.
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S. Jens
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Mefisto53
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« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2014, 09:16:05 PM »

My problem is this, my Son asked me to pick out an overall weapon, in 5.56.

I own a Steyr AUG  Some twenty years old, with the 1.5 fixed optic. The AUG is a good rifle, great magazines.  But it is an old design, never been keen on M16 magazines though.

What would be the best magazines to buy? To complement a Tavor 16"

And what optic?  Something quick, both eyes open?

I just want to spread the blame?

Consider Magpul's Emags as an alternative. They work fine with the Tavor and are easier to find and probably less expensive than the IWI.

Regarding the optic/red dot, I started with an EoTech xps-2. I know that there are plenty of happy owners of Tavors using EoTechs, I wasn't one of them. I ordered an M-21 and I'm very happy with it. You may have to do a trial and error and see what you like, however, this is not a light rifle. If you add a heavy optic, once you also add the mounting base you could easily go past an extra pound and a half.

I hope you enjoy your Tavor!


Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk
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Tavor: FDE 16", lefty conversion.
SS trigger, Gearhead flex and full length Razorback with the LWRC's BUIS, Manticore's ARClight (short) fore end with the Fortis Shift Vertical Grip and a Banner break (the one that was a group buy here).
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