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Author Topic: Tavor Accuracy  (Read 55948 times)
bossman
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« on: February 14, 2014, 05:14:40 PM »

This is the first forum that I have joined, so I'm new to this game, but not so to the shooting game.  I have fired around 200 rounds through my new Tavor with unacceptable accuracy.  I have been shooting at 100 yds. off a bench rest and have used factory ammo and hand loads.  With 5 shot groups, my best accuracy is 3" with grains from 55 to 75.  Has anyone out there developed a load that is accurate?  I need a place to start. 
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G-Tar21
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 06:10:36 PM »

Well you got my curiosity. My Tavor will debut at the range tomorrow. I'll be following your thread. It would also be interesting to get any Tavor-Specific reloading feedback concerning accuracy.

Most of the videos I've seen praise the accuracy. One guy even was impressed with 300 yard shots. This is the first I've heard of issues.

Thanks for bringing it up.
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Q:Why a Tavor?... A: Why Oxygen? Why Sex? Why steak? Besides -- MAC said so
Pjd832
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 06:40:17 PM »

It's a COMBAT rifle ....not a long range bullseye bench rest rifle.....3"@ 100 yards is WELL within acceptable accuracy for its intended use.....like being mad after buying a cow you can't make bacon....
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david8613
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2014, 06:43:48 PM »

Did you take out the spring to lighten the trigger.
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bossman
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2014, 06:46:35 PM »

I did remove the trigger spring, David.  Thank you
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Paochow
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2014, 06:48:40 PM »

What are you using for an optic?
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bossman
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2014, 06:50:53 PM »

I started with a Nikon 3x9 and now a UTC 4x12 compact.  Same results.
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G-Tar21
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2014, 07:05:24 PM »

It's a COMBAT rifle ....not a long range bullseye bench rest rifle.....3"@ 100 yards is WELL within acceptable accuracy for its intended use.....like being mad after buying a cow you can't make bacon....

I had a thought until you said bacon..... oh yea... anyway:
Combat rifle, true.Your right, 3-inch groups aint to shabby. But it was actually intended to be accurate long as well (according to what I've read/heard from IWI articles).  Now the X-95... close combat for sure. If accuracy was not important they would probably skip the 18-inch production.  Of course it would be nice to have the word "accuracy" clarified by writers. Yep, I'd be wantin' that cow to at least point me in the direction of some bacon.
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Q:Why a Tavor?... A: Why Oxygen? Why Sex? Why steak? Besides -- MAC said so
G-Tar21
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2014, 07:10:33 PM »

Hey Bossman, was Federal XM193 part of the lineup you used? I have a crap-load of that and a few boxes of green tips. 
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Q:Why a Tavor?... A: Why Oxygen? Why Sex? Why steak? Besides -- MAC said so
bossman
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2014, 07:27:12 PM »

G-TAR21:  I have shot some Federal 55 gr FMJ and I have fired some Federal 62 gr green tips.  I'm looking at 4 and 5 inch groups with them.  When I say a 3" group, that was with hand loaded 69 and 75 grain boat tail match bullets.  With a 1 in 7 twist barrel, the heavier bullets should work better. in theory. 
I was hoping someone had an accurate recipe that I could start with because, so far, I'm not too happy with what I've been using.  I haven't given up yet, but thanks for your input.  I do love bacon.
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Pjd832
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2014, 08:34:49 PM »

I haven't really spent much time actually working up a tavor specific load but with various combos I load for my m4s of 69-75-77 grain Sierra& hornady hpbt match and cfe223-blc2-335..... I am consistently able to get 1.75-2" groups standing with my forearm against a post ....standing unsupported 2-2.25 .....seated resting on a range bag 1.25-1.5"..... All shot with an acog m4cp @100-110 yards ..0-5mph winds ...temp was in the low 50s ...60-65% humidity....stock trigger and reset spring in place ....I'm used to heavier triggers and prefer over light vague ones
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Mg42
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2014, 09:57:00 PM »

That's strange I use PNC 55 grain 223 and I'm getting pretty good groups between 1.50 to 2. I'm using a Leopold patrol. Might want to look at the Mount see if it's loose on the top rail or if you're using rings see if their's 30 on the rail. I know there's a video out there that says certain types of ammo work better in the  Tavor then and others. It might be the videos done by nutnfancy and military channel with Mac.
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Chuck S
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2014, 10:33:27 AM »

3" at 100 yards is certainly acceptable combat accuracy.  This will put all shots in the 9" zero-points scoring circle at center of mass of an IDPA pistol target at 300 yards.  The rifle itself is capable of much tighter groups.  With the right ammo.  With the right shooter.

Your buddies all shoot 1" groups at 100 yards with their stock AR15s and cheap ammo.  Sure they do!  Smiley

-- Chuck
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clance
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2014, 03:21:39 PM »

I'm new to this forum as well as the bullpup community in general.  But a couple of days ago, after doing some research and having the opportunity to handle a Tavor.  I decided to "pull the trigger" and purchase a Tavor SAR Flattop B18.

I am a little befuddled with all this concern with MOA accuracy out of this rifle?  It is after all based on a combat weapon, more interested in reliability of function then the ability to shoot 1000 meters.  As the average infantry soldier engages their target within 300m.  The Tavor has no problem from all my readings both in reviews of this weapon and in this forum, in hitting a man size target at this distance.

While I believe with time the rifle's accuracy will improve with individuals like yourselves finding way to increase it.  There are inherent factor which limited it without fixes yet to be discovered. 

First off it's a Bullpup!  The average trigger pull should be expected to be heavy with creep.  This is due to the fact that there is distance between the trigger and the sear.  The relatively thin long metal lever and springs that connect the two, adds additional friction and flex I would believe unlike the trigger sear contact which most standard rifles/handgun/shoguns have.  So it will be more difficult and time consuming to fine tune the trigger pull, but not impossible.

Next is the fact that most gas piston rifles with few exception aren't inherently MOA accurate without great amount of work to compensate for the forces that the design puts on the action during function, whether the piston is mounted above or below the bolt carrier.  If you wish for a semi-auto rifle with accuracy, I would direct you toward a weapon system that uses direct impingement as little to no force is directed on the carrier except straight to the rear.  But this too has its' shortcomings that you have to deal with.

And of course there is the ammo issue which you'll have to go through to determine which is inherently more accurate for you individual weapon.

But understand that with this increase in accuracy there is generally a price paid in reliability.  Just ask any 1911 shooter who has a one that sounds like a maraca when they shake it.  Can't hit the inside of a barn outside of 50 ft. but can throw it into a mud hole, shake it off and it will fire all day long.  Try the same with a Gold Cup or any finely tuned 1911.  You might cut a silver dollar size hole at 50 yds. when it's cleaned and lubricated.  But after you drop it into a mud hole, it'll take you half a day to get the slide off being bound up!

In the end, IMO the Tavor accuracy is probably good enough for the purpose which it was original designed for.  If the firearm has any shortcomings then it's more then likely due to the expectation of the individual wanting it to be more then what it is.
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Pjd832
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2014, 03:37:14 PM »

^^^^ this was my point exactly! Just worded far more eloquently than I did... Grin
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David Sarnoff
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2014, 06:33:48 PM »

Call me Goofey but I have not been able to get to the range yet with my two week old Tavor.  So, here is what I am doing.  Widner's has IMI military ammo in the 55, 62 and 77 grain versions.  I am going to order a box of each and see what my Israeli friend likes to eat. 
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bossman
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2014, 07:18:48 PM »

Thanks for all the advice and good points.  However, I did a lot of reading about the Tavor and read several range tests before I actually coughed up the almost 2 grand for this beauty.  In all the accuracy tests that I read from the various magazines and you tube videos, a 2" to 2-1/2" group was not out of the ordinary with factory ammo.
I figured I could better that with hand loads like I have with my other dozen rifles in the past.  And yes, three of those rifles are ARs.  I may be expecting too much from this rifle, the test results are exaggerated, OR possibly I have a problem.  If IWI made a million of these, and there was one bad one, I would get it.  That's my luck.
Thanks again for your responses.
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Slateman
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2014, 08:44:41 PM »

Best I've gotten is 2.5-3 MOA
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Grevlin
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"Fly birdies! fly!"


« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2014, 08:46:09 PM »

Minute of bad guy.


...what I want.
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82naut
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2014, 12:58:23 AM »

I wonder how much it would help with removing the rubber spacer on the barrel under the front sight.
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