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Author Topic: K&M Arms M17S Billet Lower  (Read 98921 times)
PD2BP253
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« Reply #200 on: February 27, 2014, 12:11:45 AM »

I too want the lower...
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ShadyPup
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« Reply #201 on: February 28, 2014, 04:26:54 PM »

I have a question regarding the other calibers you will be offering in the future.

 Are you going to do the same thing with the other cals and offer the complete rifle first then offer the upper separate at a latter date ?

Will you allow people who have one of the 556 ver to get on the pre order list for the new cal uppers only .

When the 308 becomes available it will just drop on to the original lower ? or will parts have to be changed to handle the larger load ?

I cant wait to get my hands on mine Smiley I jumped on early and have a sub 50 number.

Thanks for the update

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ShadyPup
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« Reply #202 on: February 28, 2014, 04:30:08 PM »

And just for fun how many pre orders do you have now
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srfnken
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« Reply #203 on: February 28, 2014, 04:51:31 PM »

Pre orders move on and off the list, but as you know from the email sent to you this morning it is time to commit real time with some $$ so I know exactly where I stand on the pre order list.  As of this morning it was at 85.  And have been busy all morning collecting money and documenting T-Shirt sizes to those on the list.

.300BLK will use the same lower as the 5.56.  Will be available as a upper assy, barrel assy, and complete firearm. 

.308 will use a newly designed lower because of the larger magazine so it will not work with a 5.56 lower.  This will be a complete rifle.

6.5 Grnedel, not sure about this one yet as far as interchangeability and my design of the 5.56.  I have not started on the development of it yet but rest assured I will develop it.

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Gear Head
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« Reply #204 on: March 01, 2014, 01:46:11 AM »

So when do you expect the 300blk to be available?
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srfnken
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« Reply #205 on: March 01, 2014, 09:09:41 AM »

I have a couple of barrels coming with my order so I will be able to do the supersonic rounds, but the sub sonic rounds will be a bit.  I turned in my paperwork for a can 13 months ago.  The ATF raided the shop it was at and seized it so I have been working with them on trying to get it back.  I am supposed to call them mid March again to see what progress they have made with the case but I am not holding my breath.  I have since bought another one and am waiting for the paperwork for that one.  It will need to cycle with the sub sonic rounds and with a can on.  So it will all depend on when the can arrives.  This whole thing has been a mess.  I was supposed to have it a long time ago and I planed far enough in advance to not have this delay waiting for paperwork.  No class 3 hear yet, but has really made me think about doing it now.
So to answer your question if all the paperwork goes as planed and I have a can say by July, it should be August/Sept for the 300BLK.
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« Reply #206 on: March 01, 2014, 09:46:13 AM »

Thanks Ken for the update.
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skippy45
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« Reply #207 on: March 03, 2014, 04:58:32 PM »

I put my money were my mouth is... Can't wait until the rifles are ready. Cool
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #208 on: March 21, 2014, 08:28:03 AM »


. . . .308 will use a newly designed lower because of the larger magazine so it will not work with a 5.56 lower.  This will be a complete rifle.

6.5 Grnedel, not sure about this one yet as far as interchangeability and my design of the 5.56.  I have not started on the development of it yet but rest assured I will develop it.

Ken, I offer the following case for incorporating the use of the newly-designed .308 platform, for the 6.5mm Grendel chambering, along with a mag adapter.

Bill Alexander sums up the dilemma resulting from the use of the larger case 6.5mm Grendel (case rim diameter: 0.444") in the AR-15 designed for the .223/5.56x45mm (case rim diameter: 0.378"), "We shoehorned a bigger cartridge into the gun. . . . Now, impose a Grendel geometry, and you are right at the tipping point."

"Tipping point," indeed! Fact is: broken lugs are not uncommon in the 6.5mm Grendel-chambered AR-15, if the SAAMI 50,000 psi limit is exceeded (http://www.beyond556.com/bboard/forum/ar-variant-rifle/technical-library/4587-bolt-thrust-faq). Aware of this penalty, I recently returned a 6.5mm Grendel chambered Barrel I used in a Bullpup'ed AR-15 (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=4458.0) (See Replies #4, #5). The chamber was machined incorrectly with a tight throat. The result: the projectiles of factory-loaded ammunition were being jammed into the rifling lands, upon loading, resulting in high pressure indicators, when fired. If the rifle used a beefy AR-10-size Bolt, capable of safely harnessing 58,000 psi - 60,000 psi chamber pressure, I'd have no concern and would have kept the Barrel.  

I've included the following image of three Bolts to make my point: Left, Standard AR-15 Bolt; Center, AR-15 Bolt with face opened-up to 0.473" to accept a .308 Winchester-based wildcat I used for developing .375-diameter saboted ammunition, back in the early 1970's, here, holding a 6.5mm Grendel 123-grain A-MAX cartridge; Right, Standard AR-10 Bolt (0.473" Bolt face) holding a 6.5mm Grendel 123-grain A-MAX cartridge. I dare state that the 6.5mm Grendel cartridge is at home, in the AR-10 Bolt, not to mention the 6.5mm Creedmoor cartridge --- now I'm getting ahead of myself.

Looking forward to it all coming together. Good Luck!



« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 12:54:51 PM by SHORT-N-SASSY » Logged
skippy45
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« Reply #209 on: March 22, 2014, 02:14:52 PM »

I see that you have the credit card payment stuff up on your website. Since I can't wait to get mine, I have to ask... When? any updates/ ETA ? 
 Shocked Roll Eyes
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srfnken
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« Reply #210 on: March 22, 2014, 02:34:15 PM »

Your in the top 50 so should be mid April.  I still have parts out at vendors that are not done and barrels aren't here yet either.  I should have a update on barrels beg of the week.  I am.busy making a bunch of parts too.  Should be done today on the first 50 uppers.  Lowers are 50% done.  It's all looking good.  I am working all the time even now to get this going.
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Steelviper
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« Reply #211 on: April 02, 2014, 12:33:37 AM »

I kick myself every day for not picking the one up that was gathering dust at the gun store I frequented back in '08. For $425 oh the one that got away... Good to see some one is keeping the revolutionary design alive.

Can't wait to see how your .308 version pans out.
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atp
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« Reply #212 on: April 08, 2014, 09:46:32 AM »

Ken, I offer the following case for incorporating the use of the newly-designed .308 platform, for the 6.5mm Grendel chambering, along with a mag adapter.

I believe the K&M Arms M17S is using the three-lug bolt designed by Charles St. George for the Leader T2 Mk5, which should be stronger than the multi-lug bolts of the AR-15, AR-18, and Bushmaster M17S.  (Just how much stronger, I don't know; I've never seen real numbers.)

I never have heard a convincing explanation for why the Johnson 1941 rifle, AR-15, M-16, etc. adopted bolt designs with seven or so tiny little locking lugs.  My understanding is that it's both weaker and trickier to manufacture than a two or three lug bolt, and its only compensating "advantages" are a smaller overall diameter and not needing to roatate as much to lock and unlock.  But why would that be compelling?  Perhaps I'm overlooking something, because unlike other highly questionable AR-15 design choices, the many-lugged bolt has been copied many times by later designers, who presumably weren't all fools.  Is it easier to make a bolt with many tiny lugs work with the AR-15's barrel extension design, or something like that?

If you were especially concerned with strength, you could go with a maraging steel for the bolt and barrel extension, as St. George has done with his recent Leader 50 bullpup design.
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skippy45
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« Reply #213 on: April 13, 2014, 01:47:11 AM »

Not trying to bug, but any updates?   Grin
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DILLIGAF
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« Reply #214 on: April 13, 2014, 08:21:25 PM »

Cant wait to get my lower... Send that to Canada ASAP....
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srfnken
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« Reply #215 on: April 13, 2014, 08:29:57 PM »

Updates sent to all on the pre order list.  I should have my Canadian version done at the end of may and off to cmp for a non restricted number.
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #216 on: May 03, 2014, 08:39:39 AM »

The exciting, all-new, redesigned-for-the-21st-Century K&M Arms M17S Bullpup rifle deserves, among its multi-caliber offerings, a made-for-the-21st-Century cartridge: Wikipedia --- "The 6.5mm Creedmoor is a centerfire rifle cartridge introduced by Hornady in 2007. . . . The 6.5mm Creedmoor is capable of duplicating the trajectory of the .300 Winchester Magnum, while generating significantly lower recoil. Also, converting a rifle chambered for the .308 Winchester . . . to 6.5mm Creedmoor generally requires little more than a simple barrel change."

A stock .223/5.56x45mm-chambered M17S has an overall length of about 30", with a 21.5" Barrel. Maintaining that 30" overall length, with the 1/2"-longer .308 Winchester platform, still allows a 21" Barrel.

Fact is, the highly-efficient design of the 6.5mm Creedmoor cartridge translates to very respectable muzzle velocities with the long, sleek 140-grain Hornady A-MAX projectile (Ballistic Coefficient - 0.585), even from relatively short barrel lengths: approx. 2800 fps, from a 22" Barrel (http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/07/16/6-5-creedmoor-barrel-length-and-muzzle-velocity); approx. 2700 fps, from a 20" Barrel (http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/savage-m11-lightweight-rifle) (see Paragraph 3).

Is there a handy, 7-pound, 30-inch long, 6.5mm Creedmoor-chambered Bullpup --- replete with a 3 1/2-pound trigger --- on the horizon?
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ernierod
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« Reply #217 on: June 03, 2014, 07:49:35 PM »

I am looking forward to ordering a K&M .308 model.I would hope it has a decent bbl and accuracy capability.Cheers
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #218 on: January 26, 2017, 12:22:03 PM »

I just reviewed the 218 Posts on this important Thread, dormant for the past 2 1/2 years. The experience makes one realize the hard work involved in bringing a design to market, in the firearms industry.

From an experimenter's point of view, I've been unabashedly enthralled with the massive 3-lug design of the M17S Breech Bolt --- particularly, the .308 version, as it entices one to consider opening-up the inside diameter of the Bolt face 0.0305", all around, to accept the 0.534" rim diameter of magnum cartridges. Is there a short-action magnum-chambered M17S in the future?

Check out this image of "Monster 3-lug bolt for the M17S308 Bullpup" ---


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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #219 on: February 06, 2017, 09:40:25 AM »

As I reviewed Dogslayer's 100-yard target results of his new M17S .308 (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=9769.msg114683#msg114683), I was reminded to the question posed in my previous Post, above, "Is there a short-action magnum-chambered M17S in the future?"

.300 Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum (SAUM)






Though these potent short-action magnum cartridges share the same average overall length of the .308 Winchester cartridge, their short, fat magnum-capacity cases (case capacity averages about 72 grains, compared to about 56 grains for the .308 Winchester/7.62x51mm NATO) offer an all-new, exciting dimension to auto-loading Bullpup performance.

The result (From the Hornady Ammunition website):

.308 Winchester, 178-grain Superperformance, 24" barrel --- 2,775 fps.;
.300 RCM 180-grain Superperformance, 20" barrel --- 3,040 fps.

I'd like to think that the K&M Arms Research and Development Dept. is already contemplating the next logical step in the development of their M17S .308 ---  with the "Monster 3-lug Bolt !"
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

ETA:

So, how much more K.E. does the short magnums put out over the .308 Winchester --- in a rifle with a 20-inch barrel?

The .308 Winchester 178-grain Superperformance load, above, has a muzzle velocity of about 2,693 fps, when fired from a 20-inch barrel. Resultant muzzle energy is 2,866 ft. lbs.;

The .300 RCM  180-grain Superperformance load, above, with a muzzle velocity of about 3,040 fps, fired from a 20-inch barrel, with a muzzle energy of 3,694 ft. lbs. --- 28.9% more !


« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 03:17:45 PM by SHORT-N-SASSY » Logged
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