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Author Topic: Suppressor not very effective on Tavor  (Read 5215 times)
gunsforfun
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« on: June 17, 2013, 11:07:21 AM »

I  have an NFA Registered 5.56 suppressor and I noticed that it does not silence my Tavor as effectively as it does my AR-15.  I wonder if the gas system simply leaks more gas/noise. 
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Gear Head
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2013, 12:10:59 PM »

I believe the Tavor gets over-gassed with a suppressor as several of us have experienced here.
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Nivek
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2013, 09:44:30 PM »

I don't believe the Tavor is over gassed, I think it just has more areas where the gas escapes the receiver. Bullpup rifles in general will sound like they suppress less than an AR or standard rifle due to the ejection port being closer to your face and you hear more action noise. I have suppressed multiple AR's, AK's, Galil, Scar, bolt actions and they all sound better suppressed than the bullpups I've suppressed such as the RFB, MSAR E4, FS2000 and Tavor. It's just the nature of Bullpups, they don't suppress as well but still well enough to take the bark out of them.
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Mickey531M
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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2013, 09:56:34 AM »

I don't have much experience across multiple suppressed 5.56 platforms and/or 5.56 suppressor models, but I can say this: The Tavor sure as heck suppresses better than my SBR! My 10.5" Mk-18 CQBR is so obnoxiously loud with a suppressor, and forget about low-light muzzle flash suppression, it's a plasma torch with standard XM193 ammo. The only alternative was to work up special loads using pistol powder and 75gr pills.

With the Tavor, I get "decent" suppression, the benefit of the muzzle velocity and accuracy of the longer 16" barrel, no need for any specialized loads, and even with my SF Mini I still only get the occasional first-round "spark" out of my can when shooting XM193 ammo. I get all these benefits along with the same size and compactness of the fore mentioned SBR. Oh, and better handling/balance characteristics too. No one thing can be all things or do all things equally as well. There are tradeoffs and compromises. I get that many of you (who are way smarter than I) have some interesting and no doubt technically sound (from an engineering stand point) observation and suggestions. Perhaps the next generation will evolve and incorporate some of them to improve upon the platform. I am just happy that one was finally brought to market in the US. I’ve been waiting 10 years for this rifle…which was in jeopardy this past January. So, FWIW, I don't mind it not being as "efficient" (aka quiet) as other suppressed 5.56 platforms. I personally think the benefits far outweigh the slight degradation in noise suppression. Just my .02 worth.

Cheers,
Mickey
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2013, 10:26:41 AM »

I don't find the noise level uncomfortable with the different suppressors I have shot on the Tavor. It's just the gas blowback that I don't like.

I think as far as noise goes it isn't that different than my MSAR. Maybe I'll try a side by side comparison.
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Mickey531M
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2013, 12:13:39 PM »

Well, if it's this bad with 5.56, then I imagine that 9mm will be significantly worse. I currently run a 9mm AR (5" Tros barrel and SWR Trident 9) and constantly get gassed out. My eyes are watering just thinking about it.

Cheers,
Mickey
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2013, 12:49:46 PM »

Well, if it's this bad with 5.56, then I imagine that 9mm will be significantly worse. I currently run a 9mm AR (5" Tros barrel and SWR Trident 9) and constantly get gassed out. My eyes are watering just thinking about it.

Cheers,
Mickey

I've not noticed that bad of gas on my 5" AR / Trident combo. But I don't shoot it that much since I have the MKE. The Trident has a lot of back pressure though. Everything I shoot with it gets really dirty.
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judochop
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« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2013, 01:56:57 PM »

The suppressors I've run have been quite effective at muzzle blast and decibel reduction. The gas exposure though is significant if you're shooting your Tavor with a can.( As previously mentioned)
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Delta3-2
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2013, 04:44:57 AM »

The gas exposure though is significant if you're shooting your Tavor with a can.( As previously mentioned)

Odd, I'm running AAC’s 762-SDN6, multi-caliber suppressor on my 16.5 TAVOR.  With 100+ rounds of nasty, 55gr Brown Bear out the suppressed barrel I find little powder residue or gas blow-back. 

I would encourage anyone reading this to do the work to get a suppressor.  Mine is multi-caliber.  Use it on an SBR 5.56mm and a 7.62mm AR.  Works well.  And as I wrote above,  I have no issues with the can on the TAVOR.  It actually seems to suppress cleaner than on my 10" AR.  Then again, more powder is getting burned in the 16.5" TAVOR barrel.  So the cleaner burn should be expected.

I caution readers to take many of the "observations" written here with a grain of salt.
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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2013, 07:19:21 AM »

We all know that JudoChop's Tavor had significant gas blowback. It was clearly seen in photos of black crud all over a tan gun and his own face.

I have shot 3 different suppressors on Tavors. AAC 7.62 SDN6 multi cal, YHM Phantom 5.56 and YHM Phantom 7.62. I posted videos of each of them. You can see in the videos the gas puffs coming out of the gun.

What seems to be inconsistent between the guns is the amount of gas. I have yet to see anything conclusive as to why this is happening.

I decided to stop running mine suppressed. Not so much for the gas in the face but also because the silencer caused my grouping to open up significantly.

I would also encourage anyone interested in getting a suppressor to not let this stop you. I run mine on many different things and enjoy them very much. Well worth the investment IMHO.
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brodband
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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2013, 08:38:08 AM »

I run mine with my SPR/M4 with great results.  Also, gas blowback is less than I notice with my AR15 which is also a piston gun.
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judochop
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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2013, 10:42:02 AM »

The gas exposure though is significant if you're shooting your Tavor with a can.( As previously mentioned)

Odd, I'm running AAC’s 762-SDN6, multi-caliber suppressor on my 16.5 TAVOR.  With 100+ rounds of nasty, 55gr Brown Bear out the suppressed barrel I find little powder residue or gas blow-back. 

I would encourage anyone reading this to do the work to get a suppressor.  Mine is multi-caliber.  Use it on an SBR 5.56mm and a 7.62mm AR.  Works well.  And as I wrote above,  I have no issues with the can on the TAVOR.  It actually seems to suppress cleaner than on my 10" AR.  Then again, more powder is getting burned in the 16.5" TAVOR barrel.  So the cleaner burn should be expected.

I caution readers to take many of the "observations" written here with a grain of salt.


I'm glad you're happy with your results. Comparing your experience of 100 rounds of low quality ammo in an oversized can, versus mine, with 3500 rounds of mil spec ammo and a 5.56mm caliber designated can is two entirely different scenarios. I would take your posts as typical gun forum chatter.  Just an "observation".
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Nivek
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2013, 12:03:17 AM »

Any rifle, carbine, bullpup or pistol will have more blowback and get dirtier when using a suppressor. It doesn't matter if it's gas impingement, piston driven, recoil operated or bolt action. It also doesn't matter what size can is used because if its slowing down hot gasses and giving it time to cool then it will cause back pressure which forces unburnt powder and carbon back into the receiver. It happens with any caliber from 22 LR to 50 BMG, it's just the nature of the beast. Now granted different combinations of firearms and suppressors will cause more or less back pressure depending on what's used but it all causes it. Not only will it cause the gun to get dirtier faster, it also forces residue into the magazines causing them to get dirtier faster.

I'm not saying any of this to deter anyone from getting into suppressors, I'm just pointing out the facts. I actually recommend suppressors to everyone and rarely shoot anything unsuppressed anymore. I've shot many different suppressors and own 8 different cans myself, one of which is an AAC SDN-6 and although its an excellent suppressor, built like a tank and is very effective, it's not magical and will still cause plenty of blowback whether its on a 762 or 556 host.
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Delta3-2
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« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2013, 09:34:43 AM »

The gas exposure though is significant if you're shooting your Tavor with a can.( As previously mentioned)

Odd, I'm running AAC’s 762-SDN6, multi-caliber suppressor on my 16.5 TAVOR.  With 100+ rounds of nasty, 55gr Brown Bear out the suppressed barrel I find little powder residue or gas blow-back. 

I would encourage anyone reading this to do the work to get a suppressor.  Mine is multi-caliber.  Use it on an SBR 5.56mm and a 7.62mm AR.  Works well.  And as I wrote above,  I have no issues with the can on the TAVOR.  It actually seems to suppress cleaner than on my 10" AR.  Then again, more powder is getting burned in the 16.5" TAVOR barrel.  So the cleaner burn should be expected.

I caution readers to take many of the "observations" written here with a grain of salt.


I'm glad you're happy with your results. Comparing your experience of 100 rounds of low quality ammo in an oversized can, versus mine, with 3500 rounds of mil spec ammo and a 5.56mm caliber designated can is two entirely different scenarios. I would take your posts as typical gun forum chatter.  Just an "observation".

Mr. JudoChop....you can dismiss my comments as bull****.  But a hundred rounds of nasty Russian ammo is quite sufficient to determine the performance of both rifle and can.  You are fortunate to be able to have the money to buy caliber specific suppressors.  You must also enjoy fillling out forms and giving the BATFE $200.00 for every permission slip you apply for.  I on the other hand had the foresight to get my multi-caliber suppressor.  And as I told you and others here....I have NO issue with blowback or excessively dirty components.

Wise up bubba....get yourself a multi-caliber can and enjoy the 17 ounces of goodness that comes from such a device.
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Delta3-2
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« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2013, 09:39:26 AM »

I've shot many different suppressors and own 8 different cans myself, one of which is an AAC SDN-6 and although its an excellent suppressor.... will still cause plenty of blowback whether its on a 762 or 556 host.

Mr. Snivek....I will disagree with your assessment on the SDN-6.  Blowback is inherent in any suppressor due to the technical nature of suppression.  However, how are you defining "plenty of blowback" ?

I have little significant blowback.  Nothing more than I expected.  That includes the use of Russian steel-cased, nasty ammo.
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judochop
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« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2013, 12:35:50 PM »

 stir the pot
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 04:32:48 PM by judochop » Logged
Delta3-2
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« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2013, 05:58:25 PM »

stir the pot

I read a lot of inconclusive claims posted here about suppressor use with the TAVOR.  While one guy claims his TAVOR sounds louder than his SBR with a can another claims he has substantial blowback with 3500 rounds through his TAVOR.

The point I've tried to make is much of what one reads here and elsewhere is unsubstantiated opinions.  I've offered my input with 100 test rounds of Russian 5.56 using a multi-caliber can.  What did I get for my offered experiences ?

1.  100 rounds.....that's not enough.  My 3,500 fired rounds is proof.
2.  My suppressor is "over-sized" and thus my comments are not applicable and so much bull****.
3.  A smiley making reference I'm "stirring the pot".  Causing trouble.

Guess what ?  I offered up an alternative experience with my weapon and suppressor.  Take it for what it is worth.  But don't demean my comments.

Basically, the remarks I've seen here are exactly indicative of the head-in-the-sand mentality that pervades this country today.  Wake up.
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Gear Head
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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2013, 10:10:09 PM »

Here is me shooting 3 different cans on a Tavor. You can see the gas venting against my shoulder. The SDN6 felt like caused the most gas in my face of all of these. The videos is the "proof" that supports some of the theories expressed here. The pictures of Judo's filthy gun are his proof. There are more than just opinions posted here. If you have a gun that runs clean with a suppressor, that's great. Many of us do not obviously. The biggest difference I've seen displayed here is how your comments are stated versus everyone else's.

SDN6

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/JPPqT-PWSdg?hl" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/JPPqT-PWSdg?hl</a>

YHM Phantom 762

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/GYxJlm_Bggs?version=3&amp;amp;hl" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/GYxJlm_Bggs?version=3&amp;amp;hl</a>

YHM Phantom 556

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/GYxJlm_Bggs?version=3&amp;amp;hl" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/GYxJlm_Bggs?version=3&amp;amp;hl</a>
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pretorian
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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2013, 12:19:53 AM »

When I shoot armour piercing subsonic IR tracers under water with a suppressed tavor the boubles are bigger than with my suppressed Mk18. Design flaw. Tongue
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 12:22:11 AM by pretorian » Logged

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Gear Head
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« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2013, 07:26:06 AM »

When I shoot armour piercing subsonic IR tracers under water with a suppressed tavor the boubles are bigger than with my suppressed Mk18. Design flaw. Tongue

Hey I want some of that ammo! Then I can shoot in the lake, at night with my NV at Loch Ness!
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