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Author Topic: The TAVOR SAR "Interesting Observations Thread"  (Read 18698 times)
judochop
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« Reply #80 on: April 19, 2013, 12:56:12 AM »

Its a chrome lined barrel, I didnt think you could reliably cut the chrome layer without it chipping...

All of my chrome lined barrels have been turned at some point, chipping the chrome has never been an issue if you know what you're doing.
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pretorian
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« Reply #81 on: April 19, 2013, 01:23:31 AM »

Would cutting back the barrel to 14 1/2" and permanently fixing a flashhider (blackout 51t) still allow the Tavor to reliably cycle various rounds without a can while also reducing the back pressure caused by the 762sd AAC suppressor when attached ?

In a related question, what difference in configuration makes the ctar 13" better at addressing the suppressor back pressure issues? Is the CTAR's gas block located in the same or different location relative to the SAR 16 1/2" barrel?


The shortest you can go on the tavor is 15 inches.
As I  wrote  earlier, tha gas block and gas port are in the same place on every barrel lenght.
THE GAS PORT DIAMETER IS DIFFERENT FOR EACH BARREL LENGHT.
If you'll wait for the micro tavor/X95 you can go as short as 10 inches with the propper gas port size.
Early micro tavors had 10 inch barrels and functioned properly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfCzTfsC2oA (can a mod make it hot?)
Watch at 1:40 to see










There is no 13 inch barrel CTAR. X95s have the 13 inch barrel.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 03:08:26 AM by pretorian » Logged

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Gear Head
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« Reply #82 on: April 19, 2013, 10:23:24 AM »

I'll take one 10" micro Tavor/X95 in 300BLK please.  Grin
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Slateman
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« Reply #83 on: April 19, 2013, 06:24:38 PM »

Where do you get one of those "sniping barrels?"
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Gear Head
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« Reply #84 on: April 19, 2013, 09:52:21 PM »

Where do you get one of those "sniping barrels?"

Looks like the 18" barrel to me. I'm sure Pretorian will correct me if I am wrong.
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MercyBeat
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« Reply #85 on: April 19, 2013, 09:56:55 PM »

I ordered the 18". I would be interested in a 20" 1/8 barrel. Stainless Steel anyone?
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RonS-Glock
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« Reply #86 on: April 19, 2013, 11:34:47 PM »

Where do you get one of those "sniping barrels?"

Looks like the 18" barrel to me. I'm sure Pretorian will correct me if I am wrong.
18 inches if you zoom in the spec has the barrel length
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pretorian
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« Reply #87 on: April 20, 2013, 06:40:23 AM »

Where do you get one of those "sniping barrels?"

Looks like the 18" barrel to me. I'm sure Pretorian will correct me if I am wrong.
I won't because you aren't.
Guys, that is an old advertisment from when the tavor belonged to imi and not iwi.
The point is that 10 inch tavors are/were/could be reality...
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Odin01
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« Reply #88 on: April 20, 2013, 03:12:47 PM »

Hit the range yesterday with my "Coastal LRTi 308 suppressor" and it work great.  Good sound suppression and just little blow back, but it is a 30 caliber suppressor.  And IMO, is only little louder than my friends HTG Coyoti (223/5.56 suppressor).   

But when I opened up the suppressor for cleaning it was dirty, but that is normal.   




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Gear Head
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« Reply #89 on: April 20, 2013, 10:55:12 PM »

I shot today with a SDN-6, YHM Phantom 556 and 762. I shot some video and will be going through it soon but these are my impressions.

The SDN-6;
Group size with 55gr ammo seemed about the same with or without the suppressor and the Point Of Impact change was the least. I did feel the most gas blowback in the face with this can.

YHM 556 Phantom;
The smallest of the 3. Supprerssion seemed as much as the 30 caliber SDN. Second most gas in the face feeling.

YHM 762 Phantom;
The least felt back pressure of them all. HUGE POI change from suppressed to unsuppressed. Like over 12" at 100 yards. Group size went from 5"-ish suppressed to about 2" unsuppressed as well. This was with 55gr ammo again.

Until I can get some 77gr ammo to try I will re-zero for the 55gr unsuppressed. Now I was able to hit an 8" steel plate at 100 yards easily with the silencer attached in a fairly rapid shot string. I think I missed once out of about 10-12 shots.
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pretorian
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« Reply #90 on: April 20, 2013, 11:27:50 PM »

Gearhead,
Good info. I have a suggestion.Remove the flashhider, crown the muzzle and try again.
Might greatly reduce group size... Wink
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Gear Head
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« Reply #91 on: April 20, 2013, 11:38:42 PM »

Gearhead,
Good info. I have a suggestion.Remove the flashhider, crown the muzzle and try again.
Might greatly reduce group size... Wink

Thanks for the tip! I will try that. I should have thought of that after cutting so many barrels down but figured that it would be good to go from the factory but I've even seen Remington 700's with bad crowns.
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« Reply #92 on: April 21, 2013, 04:17:06 AM »

Also if you can, take apart the trigger pack and post pictures of the parts.
After seeing the difference between "your" and "our" full auto packs I could tell you how to mod it. I have built 4 pound trigger packs, but all full auto.
You can also build a simple trigger shoe to eliminate pretravel and overtravel and also increase contact surface of the trigger finger with the trigger.
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genStrat
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« Reply #93 on: April 21, 2013, 10:23:27 AM »

...Remove the flashhider, crown the muzzle and try again.

Thanks for the tip! I will try that. I should have thought of that after cutting so many barrels down but figured that it would be good to go from the factory but I've even seen Remington 700's with bad crowns.

Let us know how that turns out.
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Room055
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« Reply #94 on: April 21, 2013, 12:04:12 PM »

I was thinking of having a match target crown done to my SAR.

I only use screw on suppressors as well.  I have found the twist on over the flash hider cans to have more POI (not necessarily less accuracy) shift than screw ons.  My experience with that comes from bolt action 308 and 300 WinMag rifles though.
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judochop
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« Reply #95 on: May 26, 2013, 09:30:13 PM »

Since Charliegotnolove asked in my for sale classified about other observations running the Tavor SAR, I thought it best to respond here versus my ad.

I recently sent my SAR back to IWI after having a couple of reliability issues.  IWI responded very quickly and were very helpful. They assessed my rifle was in spec but it was “extremely dirty”. My Tavor had been cleaned after every other range trip by cleaning the bolt carrier, bolt and piston area along with wiping down the inner cavity.  It appears that shooting suppressed fouled the entire inner workings pretty good and rather quickly.
   
When I received the Carbine back from IWI, the charging handle was butter smooth and felt great.  It was so clean it looked brand new so a range trip was in order. Since I have suppressors I like to shoot with them very much,  so, I put the Gemtech Halo on the  A2 that comes with the Tavor , (it’s a perfect fit) did a visual concentricity check and proceeded to shoot from the sand bags. When I finished the first magazine( Gen 2 Pmag) The last round bolt hold open worked properly and brought a sense of relief.  It was the third Magazine after shooting suppressed that the blowback began to foul the reliability of the BHO. From that point on the BHO functioned very sporadically. 

After removing the HALO  after 4 mags of bench rest shooting, The SAR continued to have BHO issues even with the suppressor removed.  It did cycle rounds perfectly  the entire time. The difference in the Ponit Of Impact (POI)  shift was about 2.5” –3“at fifty yards. 

Because of its mechanical design the TAVOR SAR exhibits a rapid build up gun powder soot on many critical functioning areas if shooting suppressed.  There is a significant gap between the rail and frame where A LOT of gas also gets blown back in the direction of the shooters eyes.  This rapid build up while using military spec ammo (XM193) hinders the proper functioning of some of the mechanical features as a result.

Another area I became a little frustrated with was repeatable accuracy. As the barrel and associated parts started to heat through the firing process there seemed to be an active dynamic shift in POI which had me chasing holes with adjustments frequently.   The fifty yard groups weren’t too bad but at 200 it was almost ridiculous. POI movement is normal to some degree but this was exceeding that of all previous firearms in my experience.

The ejection port window cover also moves and creeps open when firing about .125” allowing soot to escape in the direction of the corner of the shooters mouth. It was another area while shooting with a suppressor the results seemed less than satisfactory.   

Sometimes I put 800 or a thousand rounds through my FS2000 or my FN SCAR before I clean them, and never ever have issues. And even they get pretty dirty shooting with a can as compared to without. My Tavor in comparison runs about 90-120 rounds of suppressed bench rest shooting and reliability starts to become a little bit of a concern. 

At the end of the day, the Tavor looks and handles Like a F1 race car. It wows people with its futuristic captivating  profile. it certainly did me, but its rapid build up of soot, effecting functionality and reliability, and the repeatable accuracy thing has me going in another direction. 

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buddybaja
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« Reply #96 on: May 26, 2013, 10:53:51 PM »

Also if you can, take apart the trigger pack and post pictures of the parts.
After seeing the difference between "your" and "our" full auto packs I could tell you how to mod it. I have built 4 pound trigger packs, but all full auto.
You can also build a simple trigger shoe to eliminate pretravel and overtravel and also increase contact surface of the trigger finger with the trigger.

A trigger shoe sounds interesting. If I shoot from the reset it is a lot more accurate at 200 yrds. Something to eliminate that furst pull. Have anything I can buy?? Lol. And is anyone else having repeatable accuray issues??
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charliegotnolove
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« Reply #97 on: May 27, 2013, 05:51:54 PM »

Since Charliegotnolove asked in my for sale classified about other observations running the Tavor SAR, I thought it best to respond here versus my ad.

I recently sent my SAR back to IWI after having a couple of reliability issues.  IWI responded very quickly and were very helpful. They assessed my rifle was in spec but it was “extremely dirty”. My Tavor had been cleaned after every other range trip by cleaning the bolt carrier, bolt and piston area along with wiping down the inner cavity.  It appears that shooting suppressed fouled the entire inner workings pretty good and rather quickly.
   
When I received the Carbine back from IWI, the charging handle was butter smooth and felt great.  It was so clean it looked brand new so a range trip was in order. Since I have suppressors I like to shoot with them very much,  so, I put the Gemtech Halo on the  A2 that comes with the Tavor , (it’s a perfect fit) did a visual concentricity check and proceeded to shoot from the sand bags. When I finished the first magazine( Gen 2 Pmag) The last round bolt hold open worked properly and brought a sense of relief.  It was the third Magazine after shooting suppressed that the blowback began to foul the reliability of the BHO. From that point on the BHO functioned very sporadically. 

After removing the HALO  after 4 mags of bench rest shooting, The SAR continued to have BHO issues even with the suppressor removed.  It did cycle rounds perfectly  the entire time. The difference in the Ponit Of Impact (POI)  shift was about 2.5” –3“at fifty yards. 

Because of its mechanical design the TAVOR SAR exhibits a rapid build up gun powder soot on many critical functioning areas if shooting suppressed.  There is a significant gap between the rail and frame where A LOT of gas also gets blown back in the direction of the shooters eyes.  This rapid build up while using military spec ammo (XM193) hinders the proper functioning of some of the mechanical features as a result.

Another area I became a little frustrated with was repeatable accuracy. As the barrel and associated parts started to heat through the firing process there seemed to be an active dynamic shift in POI which had me chasing holes with adjustments frequently.   The fifty yard groups weren’t too bad but at 200 it was almost ridiculous. POI movement is normal to some degree but this was exceeding that of all previous firearms in my experience.

The ejection port window cover also moves and creeps open when firing about .125” allowing soot to escape in the direction of the corner of the shooters mouth. It was another area while shooting with a suppressor the results seemed less than satisfactory.   

Sometimes I put 800 or a thousand rounds through my FS2000 or my FN SCAR before I clean them, and never ever have issues. And even they get pretty dirty shooting with a can as compared to without. My Tavor in comparison runs about 90-120 rounds of suppressed bench rest shooting and reliability starts to become a little bit of a concern. 

At the end of the day, the Tavor looks and handles Like a F1 race car. It wows people with its futuristic captivating  profile. it certainly did me, but its rapid build up of soot, effecting functionality and reliability, and the repeatable accuracy thing has me going in another direction. 



Thanks for the write up.
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Fjallhrafn
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« Reply #98 on: May 27, 2013, 06:55:32 PM »

Certain rifles were designed for suppressor use.... The SCAR is a good example since it has an adjustable gas system. There are a number of adjustable gas blocks on the AR platform.... Seems like there is opportunity to create an adjustable gas block for the Tavor.

A bit of a necro, but I just wanted to point out something...

The SCAR was designed to be used suppressed. It was designed with one specific suppressor in mind, not all of them (AAC M4-2000 for Mk16/16S, AAC SCAR-H SD for Mk17/17S).

I would guess that the best bet for a suppressor for a rifle that wasn't designed with one in mind would be something like the new-ish SureFire SOCOM suppressors, as they were designed with DI AR-15s (M4A1, Mk18) in mind.
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Dane Gerus
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« Reply #99 on: May 27, 2013, 08:30:25 PM »

Certain rifles were designed for suppressor use.... The SCAR is a good example since it has an adjustable gas system. There are a number of adjustable gas blocks on the AR platform.... Seems like there is opportunity to create an adjustable gas block for the Tavor.

A bit of a necro, but I just wanted to point out something...

The SCAR was designed to be used suppressed. It was designed with one specific suppressor in mind, not all of them (AAC M4-2000 for Mk16/16S, AAC SCAR-H SD for Mk17/17S).

I would guess that the best bet for a suppressor for a rifle that wasn't designed with one in mind would be something like the new-ish SureFire SOCOM suppressors, as they were designed with DI AR-15s (M4A1, Mk18) in mind.
I think you might be on to something there.
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