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Author Topic: NEW Bullpup for 2014  (Read 7697 times)
DesignGuy
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« on: February 09, 2013, 01:31:37 PM »

As some of you guys know I am at heart, a gun designer, I have designed multiple firearms from scratch. All of which were sold to other companies. I decided to start a new Bullpup from scratch after being at Shot Show.

This post will follow the progress from the beginning to end. This is a project I have started in my spare time. As far as the new bullpup, I'm going to put as many features into it as possible, removable trigger pack, adjustable stock, multiple sling points, light weight, low-part count, etc. there are a few big things I want to include as well on the ambi side of it. I am probably going to design a bolt that works with the left or right ejection. As a left hand shooter I'm tired of having to buy a different bolt to shoot left handed. My other main focus is putting all the little features in it you don't notice at first.

I just got the first draft of the shape and body laid out last night. I printed it out on paper, cut it out and laid my other guns around it to get more of an idea of physical size. After getting that done, I made some changes and was up till 4 am playing with shapes and options. The next step will be finalizing the "main look" of the gun and cutting the design out in foam to make sure the ergonomics translate well into feel. I'll stick a sight and some rails on it and check the placement and reach of everything.

I plan on posting pics of what I can all the way through, however I probably won't release the caliber or the entire shape, or specs for a while. You guys are free to make suggestions or ask questions and I'll answer what I can.

I'll post some pics as soon as I start cutting the styrofoam body out. I'm also compiling a list of features so feel free to chime in. Hopefully I will have a working prototype by summer and have it finished and ready to produce in 2014.
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racky
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 04:02:04 PM »

designGuy, Good news & thanks for doing this, I'm sure we're all wishing you the best luck in this endevor; so here are some Ideas I think would be heplful
1- why not make the gun with a down ward ejection port??? that way lefty's & righty's could use the gun without ANY changes.
2- Please make the gun Caliber "CHANGEABLE" 223/556-6.8/6.5-308/6.5Creedmore !!!,that way those of us that really want to use a different caliber will have the choice, without having to spent a fortune on a custom gun,
3-check out using the most advanced polymers, like "Forged Composites" which is a new super efficent-Cost effective way of using carbon Fiber, thats 5x stiffer & stronger than steel yet 1/2 to 1/3 the weight of Aluminum.
4- make it modular, check out any gun mag, and its self evident, we americians LOVE to customize our guns-bikes-trucks-cars-houses-anything we get our hands on.
That would be a good start, and good luck.!!!!
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Snapperhead363
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 05:16:54 PM »

1)I'm all for the downward or out the front ejection of spent rounds.2)I'd also like to see another trigger on a Bullpup like the DTA SRS!3) You can't have enough rails!
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cultgti
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 05:38:14 PM »

After meeting you and chatting quite abit at Shot Show Im excited to see your willing to allow us the opportunity to grow with your creation experience. I ask every one to stay patient with this process and keep it positive and constructive.

After playing with the Tavor Im even more excited to see what could be created.

DesignGuy these are some things that would be cool to see-

-What it looks like when drawing on the computer
-What a print out looks like
-How you go cutting the foam and trying to get a feel for the over product
-How the proto typing process goes
-Show the 3d printer in process and explain what you expect out of it (shrink rate of material or material type for proto type)

For me these are all the things that I think almost every one doesn't even consider or think about when a product tries to come to market.
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underdog476
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 05:43:42 PM »

designGuy, Good news & thanks for doing this, I'm sure we're all wishing you the best luck in this endevor; so here are some Ideas I think would be heplful
1- why not make the gun with a down ward ejection port??? that way lefty's & righty's could use the gun without ANY changes.
2- Please make the gun Caliber "CHANGEABLE" 223/556-6.8/6.5-308/6.5Creedmore !!!,that way those of us that really want to use a different caliber will have the choice, without having to spent a fortune on a custom gun,
3-check out using the most advanced polymers, like "Forged Composites" which is a new super efficent-Cost effective way of using carbon Fiber, thats 5x stiffer & stronger than steel yet 1/2 to 1/3 the weight of Aluminum.
4- make it modular, check out any gun mag, and its self evident, we americians LOVE to customize our guns-bikes-trucks-cars-houses-anything we get our hands on.
That would be a good start, and good luck.!!!!

Thanks for giving us such input. My 2 cents are possibly designing with the intention of a .22lr conversion from the start. Possibly including it with the rifle if it were .223/5.56 originally. With ammo prices on the ever rise practicing and plinking with .22 seems like a better option which my wallet would agree with.
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savage1r
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 06:45:56 PM »

Please make it compatible with common mags and have a 7.62/5.45x39 option.
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Dave_I
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2013, 07:28:59 PM »

Downward eject would be great if possible.  Otherwise one that can switch on-the-fly or had a really good deflector.

A built-in angled-fore-grip handguard would be nice just so it's got superior ergonomics built in out of the box, w/ the option to put a vertical foregrip if one's so inclined.  It's just my preference, however that's something I found cool on the FN P-90.  It seemed like the ergonomics were built-in more-or-less as somebody would make it aftermarket.  I like the Magpul AFG ergonomics fwiw.

Multi-cal capability would be nice.  I think 5.56 & .300 BLK would be nice, particularly if designed to be STANAG/PMAG compatible.  7.62x39 & 5.45 be great as well for the AK guys to have magazine/ammo compatibility for the same reason.  6.8 & 6.5 Grendel seem to be catching on with the larger-caliber guys.

Rails . . .  I think the Aug A3 and Tavor are nice looking with enough rails to be modular without being ludicrous.  I'm all for enough to get the major "needs" on there without going overkill and keeping it as light as possible.  Really, on a bullpup I could see an optic, maybe a handguard, and a light (or laser if you're so inclined).  But I don't think we need to fit everything under the sun.

Compliance . . .  I am curious what, if anything, can or will be done to make it fly under so-called "assault weapon" bans.  This does not effect me, thankfully, however I'm curious how or if those restrictions will effect the overall design of somebody making one of these from scratch of if they're just so restrictive (in say, NY, CA, etc.) that any gun designers are just going to say screw it and cut those markets out of the conversation.  Realistically, if it's a semi-auto they might have to.

Mostly though, I'm just curious what the overall design & specs look like.  It's hard to give a bunch of serious things on the wish list without knowing what this bullpup is.  I mean, if it's a long-range weapon w/ .50 cal. as the intended caliber, that's going to elicit a different list of options than something in a smaller more defense-orientated caliber.

-Cheers
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handel
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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2013, 08:35:05 PM »

pretty cool DG, real interested in seeing how this goes, don't know much about engineering but i think the forward ejection or downward ejections where its at.
and yes, good luck !
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genStrat
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 08:39:24 PM »

For what its worth:

  • Integrated light or carve-out for light of defined size (would prefer to not have a light hanging off in one direction or another).
  • Wiring channels/holes/punch-outs for accessory wiring and buttons.
  • Ergonomic locations for accessory buttons (ambidextrous).
  • Storage for essential parts, batteries, possibly cleaning kit. Ability to pad the storage space(s). Ok, maybe not a complete cleaning kit, but the necessary minimum.
  • Downward eject, but not straight down. Brass ends up getting under foot when standing or in your face and chest when in the prone position (ambidextrous as appropriate).
  • Ability to attach a bag or "catcher" for ejected brass.
  • Angled fore-grip is nice in many cases, but sometimes its useful to have a vertical handle for more secure grip. Allow the angled fore-grip to "pull down" and lock into a vertical fore-grip; maybe button release.
  • Integrated rail under the angled fore-grip. Not sure this is necessary.
  • Stock solid enough to use as a club or battering ram as appropriate.
  • Ambidextrous and ergonomic mag release - release and replace mag without removing hand from pistol grip.
  • Ambidextrous and ergonomic bolt release - release bolt without removing hand from pistol grip.
  • Low profile broad cheek "pad". Not necessarily soft, but something that blunts the top "edge" of the stock. Ambidextrous of course.

I'll add more as they come to mind.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 08:56:47 PM by genStrat » Logged

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DesignGuy
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2013, 09:23:00 PM »

Great! Looks like we're off to a good start. I'm looking at a forward ejection as well. A bottom eject isn't to feasible with a mag in place where ejection would need to occur.

So it looks like ejection and having a modular design is important. I plan on making a couple front handguards that will be interchangeable. I think also allowing rail attachment points will be better than building them in. On the top rail I plan to have that made in aluminum.

As far as showing screen shots and how I'm cutting the foam and the process...I plan on it! I plan on trying to keep it under the "ban" radar as far as design goes. One thought is if an assault weapon ban was instituted you could design away from it. The only unavoidable thing I can come with is the pistol grip or thumbhole stock thing. I'll expand my other ideas in few months depending on where all that goes.

In understand its hard to give a bunch of serious things on a wish list for a platform you haven't seen, but then again...it doesn't matter to much when I'm just trying to gauge what people look for in a bullpup. I know what I like, but I'm not everyone. I also have decided to use AR parts for the trigger pack, that way you could use an upgraded trigger and be able to find replacement parts easier, it will also cut down the cost of production (not redesigning the wheel).
    
Great list by Genstrat (above) I like a few things on there. I was thinking about a few of them and you just confirmed my thoughts.


  
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 09:40:56 PM by DesignGuy » Logged

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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 10:08:18 PM »

I'm encouraged that so many of us recognize the need for "a new Bullpup from scratch." And, one that features ambi-ejection, a DTA SRS-like trigger --- if not an electronically-controlled, one-pull-one-shot trigger-sear arrangement --- and a 6.5 Grendel chamber!

But, lest this ambitious, well-intentioned undertaking end up as an exercise in futility, let's not dismiss Dave_I's concerns about "Compliance," as America's responsible gun owners continue to trudge through the muck created by gun-grabbers. Vice President, Joe Biden, at a speech to House Democrats in Lansdowne, VA, this past wednesday, proclaimed, "It is clearly within the rights of the government to determine what type of weapons can be owned by the public."  

The glove of challenge has been thrown! To the extent that we are successful in meeting that challenge determines the end result of "a new Bullpup from scratch."    
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2013, 12:46:33 PM »

WHAT WOULD BE GREAT IS JUST REDOING THE ONE FOR THE MOSSBERG 500 - IT WAS POPULAR AND IN HIGH DEMAND - REALLY HOW MANY GUNOWNERS OWN A MOSSBERG 500 MY GUESS A HELL OF A LOT
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DesignGuy
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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2013, 01:22:05 AM »

So here's the first set of pics on this project. I got the final shape completed.
Trying to balance form, function, and features is a pain. 

The trigger pack seen below uses standard AR hammer, disconnect, and modified trigger. I also had to design a new auto-sear for it (not pictured). The trick was making it function In this trigger pack, but unable to work in an AR15. I also changed the engagement point so there is more leverage on the trigger to reduce the pull weight.


Here's some pics of the process of forming the shape. Just getting the silhouette cut out at first. 





After that I started cutting the rail notches.

Then worked on shaping the rail.

After getting the general shape cut out, it feels pretty good. If it feels okay at this point then it should feel excellent after I spend some serious time forming more of the shape. I'm starting on the internals next. I also ordered a barrel blank so I can work on my bolt lockup system. Of course I still have to design the bolt.
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Dramaticgnome
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« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2013, 03:00:47 AM »

one thing i'd definitely like to see is a mag release up by the trigger ar style. I know its possible, because magpul was able to do it on their pdr, but I can't for the life of me figure out how the hell they did it.
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ASH22
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2013, 07:03:04 AM »

+ 1

On the AR mag release.
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DesignGuy
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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2013, 09:52:17 AM »

 That's still the plan, as long as I don't have to step on any toes or patents to do it.
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DesignGuy
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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2013, 11:07:29 AM »

Okay so I have completed the top Carry Handle/Pic Rail. It also has built in Sling Slots & QD Pockets. I plan on making it all aluminum and it will mount directly to the barrel for strength and stability.

I started the lower front hand guard and am currently working on securing the barrel. It's going to get interesting here in a bit. I have decided on using a rotating bolt that locks directly to the barrel. This means I have also found a way to do away with a typical receiver to save weight. I know it sounds crazy but its really quite simple. It's coming together quite nicely! 
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ASH22
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« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2013, 12:11:29 PM »

Looking forward to seeing some more pics!
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racky
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« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2013, 12:44:33 PM »

Design Guy, this is awesome!, can't wait to see the final prototype, and especially one in 6.5 Grendel
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DesignGuy
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« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2013, 04:25:59 PM »

Here's a couple more pics. You will notice the aluminum top rail will contain a carrying handle, a rear sling slot, 4 machined QD attachment points, and built in BUS sights (not pictured). I have the majority of the body done now. I'll be starting on the bolt design, trigger and other smaller sub componets this week. I wish I could show the whole thing, however there are to many features I don't want shown at this point.



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