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Author Topic: Greetings  (Read 93 times)
yjeross
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« on: February 19, 2021, 05:16:39 AM »

Greetings All,
I have been in the market for a Tavor x95 with 18.5" barrel, but recently discovered Desert Tech's MDRX & HTI and want to learn more before making a purchase. I also like the Tavor TS12. I'm beginning to think I don't own enough firearms for the times...
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Mr.Tucker
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2021, 09:17:01 AM »

Bottom Line Up Front (Short Version):

I'd buy the X95 over the MDR.
I'd rack and stack my preference of Bullpups in this order:

X95 or AUG
Tavor SAR
MDR
Keltec Products
M17
FS2000



Long Version:

This could be quite the Juicy topic. Looking at the options out there:

X95
Tavor SAR (if you can find one)
MDR Series
AUG A3 or A3 M1
Keltec RDB
M17 Variants
FS2000


I've owned the Tavor SAR, and have an AUG A3 SA. I've shot/ handled the X95 which has a near identical operating system as the SAR, with slight variation to the Bolt having dual ejectors on the X95 vs. the Original SAR, and the slight change in Ergos with the mag release and other controls

I've never handled the MDR or M17, so I can't speak to those. Zero Personal experience.

So, speaking to the ones I've owned, and handled, I'll compare them to features/desirable traits of other firearms that are proven and used throughout the World, which some of these already are (AR, AK, AUG, Tavor, FAL...etc):

The Tavor/X95: Bottom Line, a great option, I'd buy the X95 hands down over the SAR if I were to buy one again, and I'd definitely get a Tavor/X95 over a Desert Tech MDR based on the feedback and issues folks have been having with the MDR and Desert Techs support/business model, although, I gotta say, the MDR is a sexy looking gun with attractive features. But I'd rather spend a little less money on something that's actually been adopted by several militaries, has solid industry support, and has endured/passed through its teething phase while fielded in Israel and around the world.

X95
Reliable Long stroke gas piston (like AK)
Rotating Bolt with 4 lugs (2 Large like AK, two small for round feeding like an AR bolt)
Favorable for Ambidextrous use (effective and reversible integrated Brass deflector for weak side shooting, reversible rotating safety selector, centerline mag release on the SAR, ambi mag release on the X95, centerline bolt release or the SAR and X95, left/right hand bolts available)

Industry support: Reasonable availability of spare parts, and ease of tool use for higher level maintenance beyond field stripping and cleaning. Available trigger mods to improve performance. There's also a wide range of accessories and mods available for the SAR/X95.

Ergos: Great balance on the Tavor Series. It feels lighter than it is due to the balance of weight back into the shoulder. The handguard and grip on both the X95/SAR are comfortable for me, but the squared off cheek weld and stock rail height are scrunched, and can be uncomfortable when compared to other options. I'm an ergo snob, so this is kind of a downside for me. Conversely, Controls placement on both have a very short learning curve and are easy to access/use for fast shooting and reloading. Good placement of controls.

Materials: Great material selection and construction. The receiver is a U-shaped aluminum alloy housing, encased in a durable plastic shell which can take a beating without deforming the internal receiver. It's a gun with an exoskeleton, and I can see why the Israelis adopted it for use. The barrel and steel components are manufactured for reliability and long service life in mind.

Shooting: The Bore Axis lines up almost center with the recoil pad, which lends to flat shooting and good follow up shots. Recoil impulse is pleasant and soft. The downside of the barrel sitting so low is a very high Line of Sight over Bore gap with optics, which means your Point of Aim vs. Point of Impact will shift drastically inside of your zero range, depending on how you zero the rifle. I'd recommend finding the Max Point Blank Range zero solution for your rifle and optic and judge your desired POA/POI shift between your near and far zeros being in the +/- 3" range.

The AUG

I have an unreasonable affinity towards the AUG, which is why I have one versus an X95. Anything I say about it from here on out will be biased. It has allot of short comings compared to more modern rifles and features developed in the last 20 years, but It still has an undeniable appeal, proven functionality, and reputation that puts it in the forefront of Bullpup designs. The AUG design is 44 years old, and for a rifle that old, it was way ahead of it's time, and still is in some respects today. It was designed to be made out of as much polymer/plastic components as possible, and to be highly modular to configure for various roles and improve ease of maintenance and field repair. It excels at these design aspects, provided you can find and afford spare parts and the other configs, which militaries can, civilians, not so much. The upside is the internal components are very durable. For private use, it's a great firearm, and I really enjoy mine. I'll highlight the pluses:

Short Stroke Gas Piston: Similar to a SCAR or FAL where the piston itself is disconnected from the Bolt Carrier Group, and only travels far enough to unlock the system before venting the remaining gas. The BCG continues to cycle and the piston is returned to full forward before the cycle completes. This system is reliable, and on the AUG, the gas setting can be quickly adjusted as well for different conditions.

Beefy Rotating Bolt: The AUG bolt is slightly more beefy than the AR-15 bolt, with an 8 luck pattern.

Barrel: I've heard stories and read articles that tout the long service life and durability of AUG Barrels. Top notch, with decent accuracy for a warfighting tool.

Ergos: The stock is near perfect for me. The angled rear body makes for an awesome cheek weld, the angled butt pad allows the rifle to drop into and wedge against your shoulder, the pistol grip has a good Length of Pull and shape for me, and the cross bolt safety for right hand shooting is easy to operate as you sweep the trigger finger down to fire.

Downside of Ergos: The Fore-end, or lack thereof, relegates the shooter to a Vertical Grip, or gently cradling a folded forward grip, or cupping the portion of the rifle between the cutlass and the vertical grip, the latter being my preferred grip for shooting the AUG, and it is quite comfortable. This drawback has been the source problem for a Project I've been working on. While the Mag release is centerline and therefore Ambidextrous, the safety, bolt release, and charging handle are not reversible. While it can be configured for left hand ejection, the Gun lends itself to right hand operation.

No Brass deflector, unless you buy one aftermarket, means weak side shooting = brass snacks, which your Dentist would not recommend. But with Covid Masks being so popular nowadays, you could refer to your mask as a brass catcher, and solve your problem. The no deflector issue also lends to brass marring up the stock aft of the ejection port.

Trigger: Bone Stock trigger, If you compare it to an AR, it's not on the same level of smoothness, shortness of travel, or weight, and the AUG trigger slides like a 1911 versus Pivoting like an AR. It simply isn't as good as a tuned up AR trigger and it never will be without changing the internals and mechanism significantly. But it is very functional and reliable, and under stress and with training, is a good trigger. We're spoiled by ARs, so unless it is an AR trigger, folks tend to turn their noses up to anything different since we've had it so good.

That being said, The trigger can be tuned to improve feel, and can be modified with an upgraded sear for about $100. This mod drastically improves the feel, shortens the travel and reset, and reduces the friction of the trigger. So, in short, it's functional out of the box, and can be significantly improved at low cost.

Shooting/Function: The short stroke gas piston is reliable and cycling/recoil is smooth and low impulse. The Rail and height over the AUG bore is comparable to an AR-15, way better than the Tavor. The Magazines are made of high quality materials but tend to pop rounds out the top if you slam them into the stock or drop them. Magpul and a few other folks make an AUG Pattern mag which resolves this issue. The mags are very durable, available, and likely the inspiration for the Pmag. If you're hellbent on using STANAGs, Steyr does sell an AUG Stock that takes them, but at the expense of losing the Bolt release and left side ejection. Reloading speed gets faster with use and training. As I mentioned with ergos and some tests I've run, the VFG/Cutlass grip for shooting is totally adequate for good shooting. Just don't c-clamp the barrel unless you want a hand brand.

The FS2000

Tuna Fish. The Almost AUG that borrows some of it's principles, but managed to turn the gun into an Oar, which hates accepting or letting go of STANAG magazines due to the dust wipe in the mag well, which exclusively only accepts NATO STANAG Pattern Magazines. The forward eject feature is neat, but clearing malfunctions requires more nuanced actions than the more common remedial actions for side ejecting guns. I'd Insert Comments here about the MDRs attempt and performance of a Forward/Side eject mechanism if I had any experience using it. The FS2000 is no longer in production, so spare parts and such are hard to come buy if at all possible and expensive.

That's all I've got for now! Congrats if you made it this far in reading, I know I write allot.
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Lonewolf McQuade
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2021, 08:42:41 PM »

Welcome to the forum & to the addiction that is guns! Funds permitted,  you'll own many lol
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semper paratus
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2021, 05:04:46 PM »

welcome to the forum -- SAR if you can find one -- X-95.  If you have an AR the x-95 will be a easy convert -- I'd stay away from MDR ( think of it as buying a new model year car - MDR is still working out some of the bugs - but could be wrong - stopped looking at them years ago) --- I have nothing but SAR's and not being an AR fan boy was not a problem.

Shotgun -- I looked at the T12 but went with the Panzer - a magazine fed bullpup -- to me - a magazine fed shotgun give you more load capabilities than a tube fed and faster to reload --- Panzer had a brother split - now called something else but look up Panzer in the shotgun section

good luck -- there is a lot of good information here and people are good at offering help
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