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Author Topic: Looking for a good pistol class in the VA/DC/MD/PA area.  (Read 1556 times)
kfeltenberger
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« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2020, 03:54:02 PM »

Another question I have is regarding pistol models and reliability. I was at a gunshop yesterday dropping off my AR upper to get a new barrel put on, and ended up talking to the counter guy about my upcoming handgun purchase. So he was showing me some recommended models, including the glock 17/19, the Sig M17/M18, an HK pistol, and I also inquired about the Sig 226, as recommended here. I made sure never to grip any of the models as I only want to do so under instruction. So I used my left hand to pinch just an inch or two under and to the rear of the muzzle and my strong hand to pinch hold just at the very bottom of the grip above the magazine port while looking at each firearm.

So later last night I was researching some of the pistols, and I was reading that the Glock has issues if you don't hold it in a firm grip. It might short stroke and end up with a stove pipe. Not a problem at the range, but potentially during a physical struggle. I remember reading that this actually happened to George Zimmerman when he was underneath and taking a beating from Trayvon Martin. Had he needed to fire a second shot, he would not have been able to. This is obviously a concern for me as the Glock is marketed for having phenomenal reliability.

Reading about the Sig M17, I read that it was experiencing drop safe issues, which is why the Army returned them to Sig. I didn't spend enough time reading about it, so there may be more to the story. I'm going to continue doing my research, but I felt concerned enough by these reports that I wanted to bring them up here.


First, it's ok to grip a pistol.  Simply finger banging one at the gunshop isn't likely to instill any bad habits (other than the desire for your girlfriend to put a little Hoppe's #9 behind her ears to set the mood...).

Regarding the Glock...most of what you hear about limpwristing is rubbish.  In years of training with most students using Glocks, I've seen perhaps zero failures due to limp wristing.  I have seen bad grips, but in a fight or flight situation, you're more apt to grip tightly than limply.  Had Zimmerman been using a Glock instead of a Kel-Tec, the mob would have gone after Glock instead.  Get a Glock and you won't be underserved.

While I am pretty much an anti-Sig person when it comes to their polymer guns and clone rifles, the M17 is not the P320.  It is based on the P320, but has been modified somewhat to meet what the military was looking for.  The drop safe issues are certainly a concern, and just because Sig claims to have fixed them I still won't entertaining owning a P320.  That said, I know a lot of people who have them and with the safety mods claim that they're good to go.  Personally, I don't like the idea that it doesn't have a trigger safety like the Glock (or just about any other polymer striker fired pistol).  That's me.  I certainly won't tell you to pack up your toys and go home if you bring one on my range.

When it comes to modern handguns, the most dangerous thing about them...what makes them the most unsafe...is the person holding it who thinks they know it all and/or acts like they're some sort of Russian Special Forces operator at the range.
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« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2020, 03:59:57 PM »

Okay, well unless anyone has anything else to add to the topic regarding my experience, I want to go back to the original question and explain why I asked that question.

So I was researching info on handguns and came upon this video where MAC is discussing limp wristing glocks. In the video, he demonstrates how it happens. When addressing criticism that poor grip or form is the cause of handgun malfunctions, he states:

"I don't buy that argument. A defensive handgun should be able to be fired from any number of positions you can think of, one handed, two handed, limp wristed, whatever. You should not be able to cause a malfunction with that handgun, including glocks. I know glock guys are going to disagree with that..." "if the gun malfunctions because of how you're holding it, it's not your fault, it is the gun's fault."

His argument seems to stem from the idea that in a defensive scenario, you might not have an ideal grasp of your weapon. You need to select a handgun that cannot fail due to limp wristing. And so I felt the need to ask this question, especially since the glock is on my shortlist of guns to purchase and train with.

Here is the video. The specific above statement starts at minute 6:59

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Uqtz2asE4&t=213s

Ah...yes...do you notice the one thing about this that is fantasy?  He's trying to induce a failure.  You can do that with any firearm provided you're determined enough.  I can say with a high degree of certainty that when you are in a fight or flight mode that you will not be holding it anywhere close to how Tim held it.

Consider this...when you scared, do you relax or do you tense?  When someone startles you, do you tense or fall apart like an overboiled noodle?
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Kurt
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« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2020, 04:18:48 PM »

That makes sense. I always have to ask, as it's better to be safe than sorry. I typically like researching topics to death before I adopt an action or make a purchase, always asking every What-If I can think of. And ofcourse, always deferring to authority on said subject matters. My class is tomorrow, with some range time Monday or Tuesday. I might bring an extra box of .22lr and get some extra instruction on shooting form after the class, if the instructor is willing.

My gf's concern about the firearms is more along the lines of would she be in trouble for being in possession of them, as I keep them locked up at her apartment, and will continue do so until we finally move. I've never heard of any situation where she would be, as all my firearms are in MD legal configuration, but I'd rather give her a more official answer. The instructor is a Maryland State Police approved instructor, so I'm sure he'll be able to confirm that.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 04:21:07 PM by Frostburg » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2020, 05:27:52 PM »

Frostburg, when you have some time and if you want to get away for a weekend, head on out to The Cove in Winchester. Itís a campground and a shooting range. They have cabins available for rent as well. Probably the best place to shoot in NOVA. Head on over to the VAguns subreddit for info, they have meetups there as well.
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« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2020, 05:42:27 PM »

Frostburg, when you have some time and if you want to get away for a weekend, head on out to The Cove in Winchester. Itís a campground and a shooting range. They have cabins available for rent as well. Probably the best place to shoot in NOVA. Head on over to the VAguns subreddit for info, they have meetups there as well.

Huh cool. I used to camp out in that area every year, in between Winchester and Berkeley Springs with my ex-gf back in college. Never knew there was a rifle range in that area; doesn't surprise me in the least. I typically always shot at the New Germany State Park shooting range which was only 45 mins from my place in Frostburg. Still living in the D.C. area now, but apparently there is a 500 yard range in Del Marva that is currently open that I want to visit.
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« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2020, 08:42:50 PM »

So I'm making a list of pistols I want to try out once I get my fundamentals sorted out.

So far I've written down the:

Glock 17/19
Beretta 92FS
Sig P226
Sig M17/M18
HK USP
CZ 75 SP-O1
M&P Shield EZ

I'm sure there are others, but I want to start doing my homework now in regards to firearm models, and gathering a list of recommendations.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2020, 09:06:11 PM »

The list is good, however I would urge you to consider this when making a selection:  If you intend to carry it, the Beretta, HK, and CZ are going to be heavy on the waist, and in the case of the Beretta and HK, wide.

I've actually owned all of those except the M&P (refuse to own a polymer S&W) and Sig M17/18.  For ease of carry, the Glock 19 is going to be hard to beat, followed close by the 17.  At the very bottom would be the Beretta, HK, and CZ.  The SP-01 is heavy, while the other two are heavy and bulky.
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Kurt
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« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2020, 09:28:20 PM »

I never even considered that. I'll have to keep that in mind when I'm trying guns out.

I have another question, which I'm not certain if I've already asked here: But when I was talking to the guy at the counter, I asked him what sort of objective measures one uses to determine if a handgun properly fits a person. Do they measure finger length alongside the slide or trigger, how thick the grip swells in one's palm, and various other fitment considerations that would be invisible to the newbie such as myself? The guy said it's mostly determined by subjective feelings of the shooter him or herself, but I don't trust myself yet to make a determination like that with so limited experience. Based on what I've been reading (like the guy you mentioned who loved his glocks, but shot the P226 better), there might be certain things to keep in mind, but I don't know what they might be specifically.

A rifle stock at the very least needs to match the length of pull of the shooter, a bike's seat position needs to match a rider's anatomy, a bow needs to match an archer's draw length, etc.
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« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2020, 09:44:10 PM »

I'm starting to lean towards the "I'm getting ahead of myself; let the instructor take care of that, I'd just get myself in trouble" line of thinking.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 09:47:39 PM by Frostburg » Logged
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« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2020, 11:15:17 AM »

Just completed the online classroom portion of the course. It was all basic, standard safety, function, parts & nomenclature, operation, as well as Maryland specific laws. He did cover some interesting stuff, such as how a revolver works. Something I never had a formal class on and how to decock a handgun. Coming from bolt, lever, and semi-auto rifles, and shotguns, this is something I've never been exposed to. Actually not true; my Henry lever action has a hammer that needs to be manually decocked with your thumb as you briefly depress then release the trigger, into a safe condition. But I don't count that since it's a rifle.

The shooting portion of the class is this coming Wednesday at 9:45. It will be just him and I, so hoping I get some extra shooting time. I'm excited! Never held a handgun before!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 11:26:25 AM by Frostburg » Logged
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« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2020, 12:16:12 PM »

I love my 226 -- carried one for 15+ years in both 9 and 40 -- but for a carry I have a 225 --- The 226 is big and fat --- look at a 229, single stack mag.  A lot of dept are going back to 9mm so that is putting a lot of 40's on the street.  Check CDNN, they were selling sig red box ( all rebuilt guns by sig ) for around $500 - if you do not mind one in 40.

Kurt is so right - but I made a mistake when I picked up a 320 - in 9 and 45 ( 45 only because I could not find - at the time - a P220) but they sit in my safe and will never be fired -- friends on the job  always talk up their striker fired / poly pistols as what they carry. 
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Frostburg
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« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2020, 01:37:48 PM »

Yeah, I'm hearing numerous people say good things about the P226, or 229 I guess. My only concern is that it is a double action/single action like the Beretta 92FS, and people have warned away from them due to that fact.

And yeah, Kfeltenberger mentioned that he doesn't like the Sig due to safety issues or lack of a trigger safety. Is that the same reason you dislike them?

I do want a 9mm just because I feel like that is a newbie friendly pistol. Maybe once I gain more experience, then I can play with a higher power caliber.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 01:39:56 PM by Frostburg » Logged
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« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2020, 08:49:45 PM »

So I was texting the instructor this evening, and since I'm his only student scheduled for this Wednesday, I asked if I could pay him for an extra hour of marksmanship instruction provided I procure the ammo, and he said that that should be no problem. Grin  That'll be fun.  But anyway, thehun should pretty pleased to know that fact, despite the case that the guy has never shot with me, nor ever observed me handle a firearm... Sheesh.
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« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2020, 01:02:05 PM »

Okay, so I finished the range portion of my training today. First off; it was harder than I expected, but not for the reasons I would have expected.

So my training started at 9:45. Being super eager, I arrived early. We were meeting at an indoor range in Severn, MD. The instructor was super friendly. I told him I wanted to learn step by step in order to develop rock solid discipline and form, same as learning to shoot a rifle. I wanted to practice dry. He said it's not necessary as he will do all that on the firing line, but he still took me into a hall way and showed me the stance, which was a basic squared off stance facing the target, all empty handed. Then we went in to our shooting lane, and he showed me where to place my hands on the handgun, how to load and unload it, sight in, and fire. I was surprised that he seemed so loose and casual about the specifics of form. He said alot of it is about "feel." Aside from the hand positioning on the pistol, this was all mostly basics I already knew. And mechanically operating the pistol was literally no different from operating any semi-auto rifle, for that matter. I was actually kind of surprised by this as I expected a radical departure from what I've learned in the past, kind of like going from TaeKwonDo to College Wrestling.

Anyway, his instruction was very basic. I expected alot more detail than what I received. He had me shoot two handguns. First his .22lr Taurus TX 22, and then his Glock 17 9mm. He set me up on a target at a distance of 25 feet. The shooting went mostly well. Aside from my first shot with the 9mm, I seldom missed the target.

I started with the .22lr. While I was able to replicate his grip and stance just fine, my biggest issue were things that he could not see. Maybe I'm just weak, but my arms and shoulders were getting tired. I had tension in my shoulders, and I didn't know how to apply palm/manual pressure evenly to the frame of the guns. My hands were getting sweaty. This was especially noticeable between my support and dominant hand. I was squeezing so hard, my support hand felt like it was slipping from the dominant hand because they were slippery. I had to pause to reset my grip from time to time and I had to take 4-5 second long breaks in between strings because my arms were getting tired. I didn't know how to properly lock or unlock my elbows, so I kept adjusting my arm position, therefore the gun felt very poorly supported. Not only that, due to the uneven pressure I was applying to the gun, I couldn't maintain a consistent front/rear sight alignment. My front sight was drifting horizontally within my two rear sights.

After I was done with the Taurus, he thought I should move on to the Glock.  I wanted to stick with the .22lr, but he was encouraging, and asserted that my form was fine. He said that he was surprised that my marksmanship and fundamentals were much better than most new shooters he's brought to the range. I did buy an extra bit of .22lr to shoot the Taurus longer, but eventually I moved on to the Glock.

The first shot from the Glock surprised me. The trigger was super duper crisp. When I mentioned this to him, he told me that he modded the trigger to be much lighter as he does all his own gunsmithing. Anyway, according to him, I was doing exceptionally well. I had one misfire midway through one of my strings of fire with the Glock. I instinctively canted the gun to the left, viewed the closed bolt in the ejection port, tap rack bang. Apparently he deliberately put in a dummy round to see if I knew how to handle a misfire, which he was satisfied with. One problem he noticed was that I seemed to be anticipating my shots since I was hitting a bit low with the Glock. But I was so focused on keeping my arms and hands steady that I wouldn't have even noticed that at first. I eventually did see that my front sight would would do a quick little dip downward just as I pressed the trigger. You'll see in the photo that there are some chunks of paper missing from the bottom of the Glock target.

My arms were tired by the end of the session. I know I initially requested an extra hour of instruction, but I decided not to go with it because my arms and shoulders were feeling so tense and I didn't want to reinforce any more muscular bad habits without more thorough analysis and instruction. He said my fundamentals are fine and all I need to do continue doing what I'm doing. Maybe I just need to do more pushups, lol. But regardless, I will probably try to hire him or another teacher before I shoot again. The instructor was very friendly and good to work with, and I would shoot with him again if he were available. But I do want my next instruction to be more thorough.

Anyway, I am attaching photos of my targets. I put on a quarter and a dime for size comparison. One is the .22lr Taurus TX22, and the other is the Glock 17 9mm.


* 03A1E32C-9695-4DC4-8E62-B9B47443AE40.png (1004.04 KB, 640x1136 - viewed 15 times.)

* 651577C9-5F11-476C-B2D1-CE50F97635A1.png (1028.54 KB, 640x1136 - viewed 17 times.)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 10:12:00 PM by Frostburg » Logged
kfeltenberger
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« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2020, 10:15:24 PM »

Some quick notes...

First, on holding the handgun.  Hold it firmly in your strong hand, but don't hold it as if you're holding on for dear life or trying to one-up someone's handshake.  Second, your strong hand/arm should be pushing out/forward while your off hand/arm should be pulling back, roughly 60/40 or so.  At all times you shouldn't be holding it like it's your life line.

Second, relax and breathe, make a conscious effort to keep your shoulders down and not hunched up and around your neck.  That posture cuts off/restricts blood flow to/from your brain and also adds additional tension and stress to your body. 

Did he cover modified Weaver and isosceles stances?  Different people work better with different stances, and what works for me may not work for you.  I've had twins in my class where each one had different preferences. 

Third, did he discuss your trigger pull?  On the .22, your finger is curling around the trigger and forcing the majority of the shots down and to the left.  It isn't as noticable on the 9mm, probably due to the trigger (he really should have had you shooting a stock trigger...custom/modified triggers when you start can instill bad habits by compensating for your errors).

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Kurt
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« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2020, 11:28:32 PM »

Some quick notes...

First, on holding the handgun.  Hold it firmly in your strong hand, but don't hold it as if you're holding on for dear life or trying to one-up someone's handshake.  Second, your strong hand/arm should be pushing out/forward while your off hand/arm should be pulling back, roughly 60/40 or so.  At all times you shouldn't be holding it like it's your life line.

Second, relax and breathe, make a conscious effort to keep your shoulders down and not hunched up and around your neck.  That posture cuts off/restricts blood flow to/from your brain and also adds additional tension and stress to your body.  

Did he cover modified Weaver and isosceles stances?  Different people work better with different stances, and what works for me may not work for you.  I've had twins in my class where each one had different preferences.  

Third, did he discuss your trigger pull?  On the .22, your finger is curling around the trigger and forcing the majority of the shots down and to the left.  It isn't as noticable on the 9mm, probably due to the trigger (he really should have had you shooting a stock trigger...custom/modified triggers when you start can instill bad habits by compensating for your errors).



Yeah, he didn't discuss grip strength or the pushing/pulling part. I'm trying it out right now on a Nerf gun (don't laugh), and I do get the sense of a better "lock" on the gun that way. But I think I would need some supervision to make sure that I'm employing that technique correctly, so I probably won't practice it on my own. But I was gripping it tightly today, but not in any thoughtful or deliberate way or technique.

Yeah I think I was not relaxed. I was definitely concerned that my arms/shoulders/hands were all in correct alignment, and each time I consciously checked on it, I adjusted my muscular activation somewhere in those areas in order to compensate for some or other perceived sense of imbalance. I had to stop for air every few minutes, which probably suggests that I breathing shallow or holding my breath, which would explain alot of my tension.

He only covered one stance. In that stance, I was standing with both my feet a little wider than shoulder width apart, even with one another, slightly balancing on the balls of my feet, and kind of leaning forward, like in a boxer's fighting position.

As far as trigger pull, he did cover that in the powerpoint presentation. We didn't go over it again today though. I'm not sure what my trigger finger was doing, as I was so concerned with my arms and shoulders.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 04:40:22 PM by Frostburg » Logged
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« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2020, 12:06:21 PM »

How do I know if I'm doing these techniques correctly, and what do I do with my elbows? How straight/bent/locked out do they need to be?

Another question: I was watching gripping technique videos for the pistol last night via youtube. And they explain putting your hands on the pistol the same way my instructor explained it to me. Basically, I grip with my right hand. Then with my support hand I place the heel and thumb of my left hand into the gap in between the thumb and fingers of my right hand making skin contact with the left hand heel and thumb against the frame of the gun (the gap is kind of shaped like the state of Florida), and then wrapping the fingers of my left hand wrapping over the fingers of my right hand.

But I saw two techniques for the emplacement of the grip:

A) Just like above, put right hand on gun, then place heel of left hand into gap of the right hand directly against the grip/frame, then wrap the left fingers over the right fingers.

B) Grip the gun with the right hand. Overlay the fingers of the left hand overtop the fingers of the right hand. Then place the heel of the left hand into the gap of the right hand.

So in short, the question is: Using my left hand, do I wrap my fingers first, or place the heel of the hand into the gap first? I know that's a complicated way to ask a seemingly trivial question, but it trips me up when I initially grip the gun. "Do I do it this way, or that way?" You know?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 12:32:42 PM by Frostburg » Logged
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« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2020, 09:21:16 PM »

Okay, so I decided to go to an indoor range in Virginia today to rent some pistols that I mentioned here. I wanted to see how I liked each.

So I shot the Glock 19 Gen 5, Sig M17, Sig P226, Beretta M9, HK VP9, and the M&P Shield, in that order.

Due to everything going on, the range could only let me shoot 50 rounds of 9mm in total for the day. So I rationed about 5 rounds per gun. And then use the remainder of the rounds for my later short list.

So I pushed the target out to 7 yards (according to the electronic system). To start off, I liked nearly all the pistols. It was hard to distinguish between some of them. I wish I could have shot them back to back, but I had to go back to the counter to swap each gun.

So I found the Glock the hardest to shoot (out of the ones I liked). My groups were largest with it. I'm not sure why. The grip just didn't settle quite right in my hand. I'm sure with all my issues with these guns, it's a matter of me being new and not having good technique.

*One note to point out. I tried using the push/pull method of locking the guns in my grip, and once I did that, it tightened up my shots. But the problem was that as the shooting string progressed, my push/pull force would relax and I would come to realize that I'm not pushing and pulling anymore. So I would have to concentrate on reactivating my push/pull control. Once I did that, I felt rock solid again. On another note, nearly all my groups concentrated low. Almost 4-6 inches below my point of aim. Again, probably a technique issue, unless the sights are just zeroed for a much further distance.*

After the Glock was the M17. That one felt much better in my hands. I don't know why. But I got the vague sense that it has a bigger grip for me to grasp onto. My grouping with it was probably only MARGINALLY smaller than the glock. But not much. It felt decent in my hands. I attribute the poor accuracy to my technique, and not so much my anatomical compatibility with the gun.

After this was the Sig P226. This pistol felt easy to shoot, and had clear sights. I also had a very small group with it. But aside from that, it wasn't noteworthy. But now looking at its group again, maybe I should have spent more time with it.

Next was the M9. Its grip felt best in my hands. I don't have large hands by any means, but the M9 felt like it filled my hands up in a good way. My fingers didn't feel crowded on the grip. But the magazine release was stiff, and putting and pulling the magazine into the mag well had a lot of drag. The first shot, the DA was very very long. I thought it was never going to go off. It took forever, but it eventually did once the trigger was nearly all the way to the rear. But after the first shot, EVERY other shot was amazingly smooth like buttery smooth and crisp. The M9 felt really accurate to me. Any time I missed, it was because of me moving the gun, not due to trigger manipulation. I didn't feel much recoil with the M9. It was probably my favorite due to those reasons. I also shot the best group with it, maybe on par with the Sig P226.

The HK VP9 was also very nice. It felt very lightweight in my hands and easy to shoot. I felt like I grouped decently enough with it.

It was also recommended to me to try the M&P Shield EZ. They didn't have it, so I shot the M&P Shield instead. I didn't like it. It was simply too small.

So once this was done, I had more ammo left. So now I decided to go back and reshoot some of the guns on my list (my short list).

That was the Glock 19. Again, when I'm sighting it in in the showroom, it felt fine. But when I'm in the shooting line, something felt off about it. Can't put my finger on it.

The M17 again felt easier to grip. It shot just as well as the previous time.

The HK VP9 felt light and crisp once again, but my group wasn't quite as tight the second go round. But I still liked it alot.

My second grouping with the M9 wasn't as good as the first, but it still felt super shootable. Of all the guns, it felt the easiest for me to shoot in single action mode. I couldn't shoot it well during double action mode. I also grouped equally as well with the Sig P226 from the first go-round, but for some reason it didn't occur to me to give the P226 a second go. Probably because it was the first hammer fired gun I shot, and that initially intimidated me. But after the M9, I opened up to the possibility. I should probably try the Sig P226 again without my previous lingering bias.

Overall, I liked all the guns. I think I just need more practice with all of them to shoot better. They all felt good. The M9, Sig P226 and HK VP9 probably felt the best. But I liked the M17 as well. I liked the way the Glock felt as well, but I just didn't shoot it as well for some reason. It wasn't how it felt in my hands, but how it shot. Something about it felt different. But I wasn't a hot shot with any of the guns today, tbh. I think it's a matter of practice and getting some real deal training by someone who can really hone technique.

If I were to make a purchase decision this second; it would probably either be the M9 due to how wonderfully it shot, or the HK VP9, due to how it felt and performed. I was thinking the VP9 to be the winner for a minute, but they are all so close.  Also, the Sig M17 due to its reputation and the fact that I felt basically competent with it, or maybe the HK VP9 due to how it felt. I would also consider the Sig P226 since honestly my grouping with it was probably the best (rivaled with the M9), and Glock again if I could get some more shooting time. I really wish I could shoot more than 5 rounds per gun. A 50 round limit really limits my ability to get to know multiple firearms in a session. I would have liked to have atleast 50 rounds to really understand each gun individually. But all in all, I would probably be happy owning any of the guns I shot today (with the exception for the tiny M&P Shield) provided I had the time and rounds to get to know them.

I might post my targets up here again, but it probably won't be until Sunday as I need to be somewhere soon.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 11:25:11 PM by Frostburg » Logged
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« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2020, 07:19:59 PM »

I'm starting to think I'm turning this thread into a personal journal detailing my foray into pistol shooting, lol.

So I hope everyone had a good 4th of July weekend.

Anyway, I went to the rental range again today to do more shooting. I wanted to shorten my list of options even more, but also get more rounds in per model. I felt like I was rushing last time due to the single hour rental time and the large number of guns I was going through.

So today I decided to limit my selection to only 3 or 4 guns.

I started with the HK VP9. It shot much better this time because I was more comfortable and took more time. I have been watching youtube videos on how to shoot handguns better, and I'm getting mixed messages. "Push/pull," "Don't push/pull," "Bent elbows/locked elbows," some people ignore the arms all together.

Anyway, the VP9 felt nice in my hands. But I realized something about myself today. All my groupings are low almost all the time. It boils down to me not knowing how to shoot a handgun. When I was learning rifle, I had people putting their hands on me, adjusting the position of my knee or foot, asking me "How does this hand position feel?" "Tense" "Alright, move your hand up to here." etc.

Anyway, I moved on to the Glock 19 Gen 5. I realized that compared to the HK VP9, the grip felt small. My fingers felt too crowded on the grip. But the sights and trigger felt better to me. When I told the guys at the counter about this, they recommended the Glock 45. When I handled the Glock 45, it felt MUCH better in my hands. Much like the Beretta M9.

When I shot it, it just felt like it resolved the ickiness I had with the Glock 19. Maybe I'm spoiled from my years of shooting rifles, but I seem to prefer handguns with larger grips for some reason even though I have medium sized hands.

Shooting the Glock 45 felt nice. I probably put 25 rounds through it, and I really focused on form, position and slow steady trigger pull. I noticed something: When I had just the right amount of locking tension in my arms, wrist and hands, I shot well. The guy at the counter told me to lean forward, lock out my arms, elbows, wrists and grip the gun tight, esp. with my left hand. When I did this just right, I would hit where I'm aiming at. When I learned to hold on the wall of the trigger, just before it breaks, my shots would be accurate. When I had too much trigger travel before the break, I would miss. Also as I continued to shoot, my arms and grip would lose tension, my body would automatically relax. That's when shots would start flying low.

But all in all, I liked the Glock 45, and it is my current front runner for when I make a purchase.

My biggest issue when aiming is letting my body relax after starting up tense. Or having TOO much tension. I needed just enough to lock the gun in my grip, but not so much as to where I can't hold the gun steady. It was difficult to maintain and regulate tension while shooting strings, and I would have to consistently remind myself to reactivate the appropriate amount of tension, which would happen inconsistently.

Here are all the targets from my previous day of shooting, and today. Some targets have only 3 holes, and others 6. Most have 5. That's intentional as I sometimes shot more rounds in particular strings vs. others.

You will also notice some groups in between the upper left and right bullseyes, and the bottom left and right bullseyes. That's deliberate as I didn't always want to post up a new target paper and decided to just aim at undisturbed spots on the paper before refreshing the target.

All shots were taken at a distance of 7 yards.



* 56BCC5BF-C20D-4361-BF5F-54A796C4BEA1.png (825.05 KB, 640x1136 - viewed 6 times.)

* E8914D6E-91F6-4223-B20D-0C2B57483B3F.png (830.36 KB, 640x1136 - viewed 5 times.)

* A8524E72-DD9C-4028-AA61-099A99F58E1B.png (868.5 KB, 640x1136 - viewed 6 times.)

* 22DC553C-4F5A-4715-929A-510F624FFC54.png (872.39 KB, 640x1136 - viewed 7 times.)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 10:43:35 PM by Frostburg » Logged
Frostburg
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« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2020, 07:22:57 PM »

5th Target.


* C43A1D34-E7A6-49D3-98F2-F5A882A2EC6F.png (866.11 KB, 640x1136 - viewed 5 times.)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 07:25:44 PM by Frostburg » Logged
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