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Author Topic: X95 SBR-ing advice  (Read 2536 times)
cwc
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« on: February 07, 2020, 08:32:03 PM »

Hi, I'm excited to finally join the bullpup club! I just got an X95 in 300 BLK. I'd like to eventually SBR it. Looking for recommendations on a shop that is experienced with Tavors, to help me figure out how short it can go and chop it down for me. Would also love to see some pics of SBR Tavors and hear any advice you guys have. Thanks!
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Zolkalf
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2020, 07:23:53 PM »

I am probably going to cut my barrel. I don't want to file any paperwork so I am thinking 14.5 or 13.7. As short as you can go I think is 13.
I read up on some forms and ADCO has cut chrome hammer forged barrels and I hadn't heard any of anyone complaining about problems and heard they do good work.

I called ADCO today to talk about it but they were closed.
Here is ADCO's webpage with the pricing on crowning, threading. pinning ect.

https://adcofirearms.com/products/gunsmithing/

Good luck.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2020, 07:42:44 PM by rjhyland » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2020, 09:11:04 PM »

Do NOT have ADCO chop your Tavor barrel.

I sent mine off to them for the 13" chop when I SBR'd my Micro last year. When I got it back, they had screwed up the threading, so I couldn't actually install the lock ring and flash hider (the lock ring didn't have any threads to hang onto). I ended up repairing it on my own lathe by making the barrel a little shorter and threading/re-crowning it myself, negating the money/reason I sent it to ADCO in the first place. I'll never buy anything from ADCO again.

Do yourself a favor: buy the SBR kit or just get a factory SBR. Keep your 16.5" barrel for when you decide you want to take the thing into another state without having to tell Big Brother (just make sure you pin the flash hider then or toss the fat buttpad back on it to get 26"). I wish I hadn't been cheap and had just bought the real SBR kit.


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cwc
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2020, 09:32:22 PM »

Okay...one vote against ADCO!

Iím going to stick with the 300 BLK, and IWI is not currently offering an SBR kit in that caliber. Also, I kind of want to play the ďhow stupid short can I goĒ game. Thatís the main thing Iím trying to find...a shop that is knowledgeable enough to help me figure out how short I can take it and still have reliable functioning.
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Zolkalf
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2020, 05:18:45 PM »

Good to see you fixed it.

Hows it shoot after cutting? Any noticeable changes? Flaking?

Also, did you need to do anything with your gas? The stock gas setting for a 14.5 should be good but asking. I seen a chart someplace of the gas port mm in the different barrel lengths but can't find it now. Good to know for the original posters 300 blk too since he is going as short as he can,

Talked with a gunsmith today who said he would do it so I'll break it down and drop it off tomorrow to go 14.5 with a pin and weld.


Thanks for the post.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 06:58:16 PM by rjhyland » Logged

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Zolkalf on PubG
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2020, 01:57:27 AM »

Pardon my newb question, but do you need a new shorter forend after chopping your barrel to SBR length? I too would love for IWI to offer an SBR conversion kit but until that happens (IF it ever happens), I've been pondering the idea.
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BellatorInvictus
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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2020, 09:25:12 AM »

Good to see you fixed it.

Hows it shoot after cutting? Any noticeable changes? Flaking?

Also, did you need to do anything with your gas? The stock gas setting for a 14.5 should be good but asking. I seen a chart someplace of the gas port mm in the different barrel lengths but can't find it now. Good to know for the original posters 300 blk too since he is going as short as he can,

Talked with a gunsmith today who said he would do it so I'll break it down and drop it off tomorrow to go 14.5 with a pin and weld.


Thanks for the post.

Mine works fine since I repaired it. It's 13", and I haven't noticed any difference in reliability. It's quite a cannon with that short of a barrel though. I had never shot anything 5.56 shorter than a 14.5" barrel, so it was quite entertaining to see fireballs come out of the flash hider for the first time. The gas system seems to have handled the conversion without any issues.

One thing you have to do if you chop down a barrel is to have the gunsmith lathe a groove for the teflon barrel ring so you can have that relocated for the shorter front handguard.

IWI isn't currently offering an SBR .300BLK kit, BUT if people start expressing interest, who knows. The best thing they could do would be to offer such a kit with the elusive round handguard, because that would allow for an integral suppression setup as seen in the Colion Noir and Vickers videos.




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Throughout all history, there has been one class of people who have been ordinarily prohibited from bearing arms: slaves.

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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2020, 09:32:09 AM »

Pardon my newb question, but do you need a new shorter forend after chopping your barrel to SBR length? I too would love for IWI to offer an SBR conversion kit but until that happens (IF it ever happens), I've been pondering the idea.

Depends on how short you want to go. You could probably cut a 16.5" barrel down about 1"-1.5", but that would put you in SBR territory, so why not just go all the way and do 13"? You'll definitely need the short handguard though for that. The quadrail handguards don't allow integral suppression, so you just have to make sure you've got enough barrel sticking out for the flash hider/lock nut to attach.
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Throughout all history, there has been one class of people who have been ordinarily prohibited from bearing arms: slaves.

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -Stalin
Zolkalf
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« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2020, 09:08:57 PM »

I would say you would need the short fore end and rail. At 13 inches your muzzle device should be right there at the fore end. Also, depending on what muzzle device you choose your fore end may or may not slide off over your muzzle device.

I just cut my barrel to 14.5 and chose a OSS muzzle break. The OD on the break is larger that the ID on the fore end so for me to remove the fore end I would need to cut it off. I was ok with that though. If I got bored with it I could always use my OEM fore end and rail with a 18" barrel and flat butt plate and go the other way and still have my 14.5 if I wanted.  I'm more than happy with the 14.5 and for me with no NFA BS and still getting good velocity and looking triple cool it was the way to go. 

Something to think about on how you want it set up.


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« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2020, 09:49:34 PM »

Oh I'm 100% going down to 13.5". As useless and idiotic as the NFA is, I'm a big fan of zero criminal convictions so I will begrudgingly play by the rules.
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MarkItZer0
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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2020, 05:26:27 PM »

Just how short could you absolutely go with the barrel length?  Iím thinking about cutting one down and pinning a suppressor on it to avoid the stamp.  Opinions on pinning the suppressor aside, just how short could you theoretically cut a 300 blk barrel?

Thanks
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BellatorInvictus
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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2020, 08:12:53 PM »

Just how short could you absolutely go with the barrel length?  Iím thinking about cutting one down and pinning a suppressor on it to avoid the stamp.  Opinions on pinning the suppressor aside, just how short could you theoretically cut a 300 blk barrel?

Thanks


Well currently the shortest you can go is 13", because that's all that the smaller quadrail handguard allows. IF IWI were to sell us the IDF round handguards, then you could go as short as you want and have it be integrally suppressed. Tom Alibrando actually has a 300BLK X95 with the old IDF round handguard set up exactly in this way. He had a semi-auto X95 set up like this in the video with Larry Vickers, and a full auto version in the video with Colion Noir. I'll add pics below.

Life would be good for Micro Tavor fans if we had more options with these rifles. But alas, and trust me when I tell you, IWI will NEVER sell us those round handguards. I've been told the real reason why, and trust me, it ain't gonna happen, sadly.


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Throughout all history, there has been one class of people who have been ordinarily prohibited from bearing arms: slaves.

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -Stalin
MarkItZer0
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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2020, 08:38:02 PM »

Well thatís disappointing.  Thanks for the reply.  Maybe making something custom is an option.  Iíd sure like to have that setup. 
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BellatorInvictus
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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2020, 09:01:31 PM »

Well thatís disappointing.  Thanks for the reply.  Maybe making something custom is an option.  Iíd sure like to have that setup. 

I'm working on making a replica of it for myself just because I'm a Tavor nerd and I can (I'm a CNC machinist and I'm pretty good at reverse engineering things with photo reference). That said, Manticore does sell a replacement handguard for the X95 that looks like it could work for integral suppression:

https://manticorearms.com/shop-by-rifle/x95-tavor-products/x95-cantilever-forend-oem-height-rail-gen-ii

It's meant to replace the longer handguard, however. You could probably hide a whole suppressor in that thing. I still prefer the OEM part just for looks alone though.
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Throughout all history, there has been one class of people who have been ordinarily prohibited from bearing arms: slaves.

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -Stalin
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2020, 09:40:30 PM »

I totally respect your nerd-dom.  Thatíll be really sweet.  For my purposes that Manticore forend will work pretty well.  Thanks for sharing that.  Iím new to the X95, and itís like entering a whole new world. 
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BellatorInvictus
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« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2020, 10:01:35 PM »

I totally respect your nerd-dom.  Thatíll be really sweet.  For my purposes that Manticore forend will work pretty well.  Thanks for sharing that.  Iím new to the X95, and itís like entering a whole new world. 

Welcome! We're a small group but we're pretty diehard about these guns. Everyone knows what an AR is, but people still do double takes when you starting blasting with a Tavor. I preach them everywhere I go, and have never met anyone who wasn't impressed when shooting one.

Have fun with your build! Get some pics when it's all done!
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Throughout all history, there has been one class of people who have been ordinarily prohibited from bearing arms: slaves.

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -Stalin
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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2020, 03:44:15 PM »

Life would be good for Micro Tavor fans if we had more options with these rifles. But alas, and trust me when I tell you, IWI will NEVER sell us those round handguards. I've been told the real reason why, and trust me, it ain't gonna happen, sadly.
So, what is the real reason they won't sell these? I know you have a real passion for all things Tavor. Share with us why they won't sell this innocuous piece.
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DubageL
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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2020, 06:23:44 PM »

Because they stopped making them and the IDF tossed them out in the trash by the dumpster load. They have kept some for the internally suppressed 9mm x95 sub machine gun but thatís about it. There were several iterations of the round handguard. Plus the IDF has gone to a 15Ē barrel and using a slightly modified version of the US civilian/commercial sbr picantinny handguard and top rail.
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BellatorInvictus
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« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2020, 07:28:59 PM »

Dubagel has the gist of it, although the story I heard goes a little deeper than that. I won't say all of it, since part of what I was told just about made me want to throw my X95 out the window, but basically...

IWI as a company is primarily concerned with supplying military grade weapons to governments. Civilians are a comparatively small part of their market, since there are almost no free countries left on the planet. Therefore, whatever IWI happens to be producing at the time for various militaries, and which can be neutered into fully semi-auto only configurations, goes on to possibly get sold to American consumers. The X95 was released in the US at just about the same time that the Israelis updated it with the plastic quadrail handguard. Figuring Americans would generally prefer that version, the round handguard was seen as obsolete garbage (literally) and a damnatio memoriae basically took place where they destroyed both those that were in service at the time, and the remaining new product as well. So if they're destroying what they have, they're certainly not going to go through the trouble of doing a whole new run of them just to appease the 3 hardcore guys on Bullpup Forum and the maybe 50-100 others here and there who have expressed interest.

Secondly, there is a compatibility issue with the round handguard and the US civvie receivers, as I've been told. Now what the reason for that is, I have been trying to get out of the guys at IWI. So far they haven't revealed any more details. I found it confusing because you can clearly see the round handguard on the semi-auto 300BLK X95 that Alibrando brought for the Vickers video. So clearly there was a way to make it work. It's especially frustrating for me as a machinist because I can promise you I'd have had that thing running on my rifle within an hour, no matter what the problem was.

So anyway--yeah, round handguard is not happening.
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Throughout all history, there has been one class of people who have been ordinarily prohibited from bearing arms: slaves.

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -Stalin
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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2020, 01:34:09 AM »

Thanks for the info. That's disappointing to say the least. I have no personal dog in this fight, but I still hate to see companies just trash stuff that they could have made available.
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