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| | | |-+  WANTED: non-NFA PS90 with 10.4" barrel
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Author Topic: WANTED: non-NFA PS90 with 10.4" barrel  (Read 662 times)
MikeC
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« on: July 31, 2019, 10:46:16 AM »

The Franklin Armory Reformation line have barrels with straight grooves in them to avoid NFA paperwork and delay times.  In July 2019, Franklin Armory sold separately their 11" uppers with straight grooves that can be attached to any lower with a full stock, forward pistol grip, etc.

I want a PS90 with a 10.4" straight groove barrel.  As with the Reformation line, this would be classified as a non-NFA "firearm"

I've contacted both Franklin Armory and CMMG, asking that they consider a contract/collaboration with each other to produce such a barrel.  I also believe CMMG would benefit by producing a banshee line with straight groove barrels and full stocks.

Other than these producers, does anyone know of anyone else who may be willing to produce such a barrel?
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thehun
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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2019, 11:27:11 AM »

Reformation is the stupidest thing ever created...unless you want a 35 yard gun only...

However...you cannot redesign a rifle into something else...its registered as a rifle by FN to the ATF when it was made...only way to "redesign it" is through the NFA sbr reclassification process and at that point...you might as well just put a proper barrel in it...

« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 11:28:56 AM by thehun » Logged
MikeC
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2019, 03:05:58 PM »

A less than 35 yard gun is what I want.
That's why I bought the Reformation RS7.  I love it.
7 yard kill machine, but ammo loses a lot of its energy after so many yards, like a shotgun?
That’s great! - I won't accidently kill my neighbors.  (I live on a large farm)

I hate recreational shooting.
You won’t find me punching paper at 100 yards.
I only use guns when I have to kill something.

Wife b****es all the time that something is killing her chickens.
Skunks, opossums, weasels, other aerial varmints I won’t mention…  BOOM!
Shooting in the sky, shooting in the dark, shooting while running.
But…  no varmints more than 35 yards away.

I thought the same thing you did - about the PS90 being a "rifle" and putting a straight groove barrel in it wouldn't reclassify it as a "firearm" like the Reformation line.  However, Franklin Armory was selling uppers of their Reformation RS11, saying they could be installed on any rifle lower with a full stock.  I'm sure they checked before selling them and making such a claim.

So now I want a non-NFA PS90 with a 10.4" barrel.
Shotguns are too easy.  I need a challenge when I go to kill something.
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thehun
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2019, 07:05:07 PM »

Well Franklin Armory is wrong...you can't replace a barrel...even with a straight groove barrel...and automatically reclassifying the rifle...that won't happen...ever...ever...ever...not possible...especially on a PS90 that is registered as a rifle.

On an AR it can be easier...when you purchase a lower...have it ran as a handgun receiver...than you can do it and slap a Reformation upper on it no problem.

But if the lower is registered as a rifle...no way you can...legally...

35 yards or less...might as well get on of those short shotgun pistols...

But if you put a "straight groove" barrel into your PS90...you are violating law...remember...a component does not re-classify a firearm...just like a brace...doesnt reclassify a pistol as a SBR...same concept here...a barrel swap...grooved or not...does not reclassifying the PS90 to non-NFA with a straight groove rifling...when it was registered as a rifle the first place.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 08:27:59 PM by thehun » Logged
Zeiram3f
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2019, 09:11:12 PM »

I’d say a 22lr is all you’re looking for given your criteria. The receiver on a PS90 is registered as a rifle. I’m pretty sure it can only be just that as the law is written.
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Hkbeltfed
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2019, 07:43:00 PM »

I don’t agree with the above. It doesn’t matter what it’s registered as or what it once was, it matters what it is now and how it’s configured. Take a PS90 and stick a 10” barrel on it and it’s a SBR, legal with paperwork, illegal without, but regardless in that configuration, it’s a SBR. Take a pistol, add a 16” barrel and a stock and it becomes a rifle and it’s legal, it doesn’t matter what it was registered as, or once was, it’s a rifle now. Take an AR15 lower which is an other, build it as a pistol and it’s a pistol, build it as a rifle and it’s a rifle, build it as a firearm and it’s a firearm, again all of which are legal and none of which matter what it was registered as or once was. And on and on.
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thehun
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2019, 10:16:23 PM »

It 100% matters.

You cannot take a firearm that is registered as a rifle from the factory and re classify it as a pistol by just adding a brace and short barrel. The accessory does not carry reclassification. It matters how the receiver was logged...period.

So if you bought a rifle...it’s a rifle unless you SBR and go the NFA way.

It is how the law is written.

In this example...the PS90 is a rifle...you cannot make it into a “firearm” classification by just swapping barrels.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 10:18:12 PM by thehun » Logged
Hkbeltfed
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2019, 02:31:27 PM »

Well, here’s an ATF letter that says otherwise...

https://franklinarmory.com/content/Reformation%20Letter.pdf

Here’s the relevant excerpt...

https://imgur.com/a/b0kxRv5

They say it is now possible to MAKE firearms which were ORIGINALLY DESIGNED TO BE FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER having barrels less than 18” in length (OP proposes 10”), and/or an overall length less than 26” (as the OP intends) with straight lands and grooves (again as the OP is inquiring about).

I also notice you do not dispute any of the examples I provided in my previous post.

That said, I don’t wish to bicker with you about this, you can believe whatever you want.
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thehun
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2019, 03:51:46 PM »

Ok. You are totally missing my point here regarding the PS90...

Again.

You cannot redesign a rifle that has been designated from factory as a rifle. Period. You just can’t. A rifle always stays as a rifle..unless you play the NFA game.

PS90 offered by FN is a Rifle...FN registers it as a rifle...when you pick one up from a FFL...it gets checked in as a rifle. It cannot be checked in as OTHER or Pistol because it is not.

Changing out the barrel DOES NOT change its original rifle classification.

Either you buy a compete reformation from Franklin Armory or you would have to start with a virgin, new lower receiver ... that was not made into a rifle previously when checked into a FFL.

But if you all want to challenge the ATF by installing reformation type barrels into a registered rifle...do it. I’d love to hear how it pans out.

But it all starts how your complete firearm was MADE INTO from factory or how a virgin lower receiver was checked into the system when the background check is ran during pick up.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 04:06:56 PM by thehun » Logged
Hkbeltfed
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2019, 07:25:42 PM »

And you totally missed my point... what is “ORIGINALLY DESIGNED TO BE FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER”? A rifle is. The answer is right there from the ATF, but you don’t want to read it.
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thehun
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2019, 07:31:42 PM »

I know the laws regulating firearms...don’t worry.
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Zeiram3f
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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2019, 10:04:25 PM »

I think it’s possible to purchase an Effen 90 receiver, an unrifled barrel, mate the two and register the receiver as a shotgun, yes? At this point, you’re paying $2k for a short range ‘shotgun’, when a ks7, or ksg would be far superior.
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thehun
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« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2019, 11:08:33 PM »

Yup.
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thehun
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« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2019, 09:04:12 AM »

And you totally missed my point... what is “ORIGINALLY DESIGNED TO BE FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER”? A rifle is. The answer is right there from the ATF, but you don’t want to read it.

What matters at the end of the day is how the firearm or virgin lower receiver was checked in as...periooooooood....

But you go on and buy a Reformation barrel....install it in a rifle that was registered as a rifle...and challenge the ATF...I bet you will lose...
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Zeiram3f
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« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2019, 10:40:50 AM »

Correct. With the upper being the registered component, I believe it actually does require an Effen90, as the factory upper will have originally been registered. Frankensteining a PS90 together is possible, but that’s still a $2k endeavor.
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