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| | |-+  Do SWAT teams make decisions based on new info they notice on a raid?
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Author Topic: Do SWAT teams make decisions based on new info they notice on a raid?  (Read 592 times)
Frostburg
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« on: June 24, 2019, 04:42:50 PM »

So a friend and I are arguing about the scene in the Dark Knight where the SWAT team is entering the building and they want to take out the clowns because they think they are hostage takers, but infact they are actually hostages. In that scene, batman notices that the guys dressed as clowns have weapons duct taped to their hands, and are gagged under their masks. And that the guys dressed as doctors are actually the hostage takers. My argument is that batman should have verbally said to the SWAT team that the clowns are the hostages instead of the doctors so that the SWAT team would target the right people. Instead batman just fought them and disarmed the SWAT team, which is needless, imo. My friend is saying that telling them that would make no difference because SWAT teams arn't going to change their ROE on the fly in the middle of their raid.
He also said that SWAT teams normally wouldn't be analyzing details like if the clowns wrists are duct taped during a raid, and would be focused on "drop the weapon or I'll shoot" type mindset. 
Since this forum has a bunch of guys who may or may not be LE people, I figured I would ask.
Do SWAT teams take into account small details they notice on raids and adjust accordingly?
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Aussie E
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2019, 07:19:47 PM »

 :'(Heinies in a Halfshell (2431) and Jaws approve of this thread.

AE


* E34D873.jpg (208.77 KB, 2048x1367 - viewed 95 times.)

* gYurRgy.png (292.45 KB, 481x368 - viewed 74 times.)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 08:38:19 PM by Aussie E » Logged
mpd3285
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2019, 08:26:29 PM »

Teams can adjust operations based on new information. Your friend is mistaken.
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Steyr AUG= Austrian combat Legos since 1977.
Why SBR when you can AUG?! - Haven't we been taxed enough already?
kfeltenberger
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2019, 08:32:21 PM »

I agree that they can adjust their operations, but in the scenario mentioned, I don't know whether a SWAT team would take advice *during an operation* from a guy in a Halloween costume.  That said, if Blackbat can see the duct tape, then I would think that as the SWAT team aims on on the "targets" they would see it as well.
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Kurt
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2019, 11:52:01 PM »


Operations are always fluid. Yes, there are basic plans that are planned out from intelligence available prior to the actual raid. However, there are several aspects during operations that I won't share on an open forum that keeps operations dynamic.

But I am going to enjoy sitting back and listening to keyboard warriors what is and what isn't possible in SWAT...take it away...got my popcorn ready... Popcorn Popcorn Popcorn
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 08:50:40 AM by thehun » Logged
Frostburg
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2019, 10:41:39 PM »

So I was taking a trip up to White Marsh this weekend to see the new Spiderman movie with my friend Brian. While going north on i95, the road was mostly clear. But this cop that was just driving normally on the highway, just turns his lights on and and starts drifting from one end of the highway to the other, back and forth, weaving in front of us all. He was clearly trying to prevent anyone from passing him. He was driving in front of all of us, just weaving back and forth across all the lanes. Is anyone here familiar with this sort of behavior? Was he just trying to be an asshole? Would this be him trying to slow us down in case there was a threat or dangerous pursuit in front of us? I kind of got the feeling that he was just doing it just to be a dick, but there are other possibilities I think. I'm pretty sure he was a state trooper. We were all stuck going like 50 mph or less because we couldn't pass him.
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thehun
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2019, 11:07:06 PM »

There was probably something up ahead or close by...per-cautionary.

They can't impede flow of traffic like that unless there was a valid reason to do so, especially highway/state patrol.
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mpd3285
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2019, 08:40:23 AM »

We do that to create a traffic gap so another officer up ahead somewhere can move large debris out of the roadway. No one wants to play Frogger for real just to drag a tire tread, broken ladder, or chunk of metal out of the road.
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Steyr AUG= Austrian combat Legos since 1977.
Why SBR when you can AUG?! - Haven't we been taxed enough already?
semper paratus
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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2019, 01:18:53 PM »

frostburg - to your question -- YES.  twice while coming N on I75 in Tenn. and KY --- slowing traffic while approaching a work zone where they were doing blasting.

Having a weapon ducted taped to someone's hand would not stop me from shooting them.  Actually it is a good way for a criminal to maintain weapons possession while in a gun fight.

Now, can't recall the scene in the movie - obviously they were not firing them - but were the weapons pointed at the SWAT team and was there some reason that prevent the hostages from raising the weapons over their heads? or turning having their backs to the officers?
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EWTHeckman
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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2019, 02:56:29 PM »

Now, can't recall the scene in the movie - obviously they were not firing them - but were the weapons pointed at the SWAT team and was there some reason that prevent the hostages from raising the weapons over their heads? or turning having their backs to the officers?

As I recall, the Joker's goons were dressed as the doctors/hostages and the actual doctor hostages were dressed as the clown goons, but were tied and taped up as if they were holding guns on the real goons. Their mouths were also taped shut so they couldn't give away the ruse. The Joker wanted the police to take out the "hostage takers" because they "wouldn't let the hostages go."
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