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| | | |-+  The IDF switch to the 15in square hand guard Tavor is in full swing
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Author Topic: The IDF switch to the 15in square hand guard Tavor is in full swing  (Read 1049 times)
Verfed
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« on: November 02, 2018, 08:37:46 AM »

IWI only just now released the SBR kits and many are still waiting for the round hand guards while the IDF is switching entire units to the 380mm barrel and with the square covered rails hand guard. I saw an entire company of Golani trainees with the new Tavor and trained with a few platoons of Gadsar Nahal troops that had it. (and semi-auto only to boot)


* 1.jpg (1992.12 KB, 3143x1862 - viewed 235 times.)

* 2.jpg (688.99 KB, 1370x981 - viewed 219 times.)

* 3.jpg (962.94 KB, 1398x1777 - viewed 158 times.)
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BellatorInvictus
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2018, 10:17:57 AM »

Excellent--thanks for the pics. I'll point out that the newer style handguard on the Israeli X95s in your pics is different from the US civvie version. So the folks saying that the US handguard is the same as the ones the IDF is now using are wrong on that one. It's similar, but the rail covers are shaped differently and the handguard itself underneath is structured differently so that the rail covers can be attached with screws and thus held in place more securely.

Maybe the IDF will sell off some of those surplus round handguards now.
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Throughout all history, there has been one class of people who have been ordinarily prohibited from bearing arms: slaves.

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Aussie E
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2018, 10:18:53 AM »

The circle of firearms life, by the time we catch up to what they used to do their doing what we already have done. What a confusing paradox.

BTW, if anyone wants to make a clone of the newer version of the IDF X95 I have a FDE short handguard, a short rail and slim buttpad that I had for my X95 before I sold it, way ahead of the game over here in the US (maybe the IDF were making clone rifles of what we had not the other way around?). Rail and handguard were installed and buttons is new in bag.

AE
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 10:24:18 AM by Aussie E » Logged
Rastoff
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2018, 11:45:46 AM »

Interesting. Maybe that's why the round hand guards can't be bought; they don't make them anymore.
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BellatorInvictus
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2018, 01:55:32 PM »

Interesting. Maybe that's why the round hand guards can't be bought; they don't make them anymore.


That's what IWI US told me. That isn't totally true, however. They do still make the round handguards in smaller quantities for the integrally suppressed X95s for law enforcement. You can't do integral suppression with the newer handguards.

They've acknowledged that they've received tons of interest in them, but even if they sold hundreds, it would be small potatoes as far as profits go. Maybe they'll change their mind since the Tavor 7 is delayed. Who knows. The only reason they'd offer them at this point is basically fan service, and I get the impression that satisfying clone-minded US collectors is not on their priority list. I sent IWI a whole list of parts earlier this year that would be nice for clone builds, and they said they couldn't offer any of them at this time. The IDF16 SAR is the only IDF-clone style Tavor you can really get, and even that has some inaccuracies (e.g. lack of paracord sling loop). Still, at least there is that. The IDF16 may be discontinued, but it's still easy to find. Most people didn't like them because the optic is attached to the barrel. Well that's kind of the point. The pic rail version is the one to get if you want to swap around optics. If you're a collector, the IDF version is for you. You can even add a MARS sight for a really nostalgic Tavor clone if you're so inclined. I plan to do just that, and also chop my barrel down around an inch (whatever ends up being exactly legal) and pin the flash hider to give it a more CTAR-like appearance.

I think at some point we should all start an official IDF Tavor clone thread here on Bullpup Forum. They have a thread like that on Arfcom, but it's for the IDF AR-style rifles. It would be nice to have a thread to reference for pictures and gear like Verfed just posted above.
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Throughout all history, there has been one class of people who have been ordinarily prohibited from bearing arms: slaves.

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -Stalin
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2018, 01:45:33 AM »

You really have it bad for that clone stuff. I've said it before, I don't understand the obsession, but I hope you're able to get what you want one day.

Making a "clone" holds little interest for me. I want a functional gun and the X95 as it came from the factory is perfect for me.

I bet they know you by name. When I go to the Shot Show in Jan, I'll ask about those parts for you if you like.
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DubageL
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2018, 06:29:53 AM »

The IDF nor IMI never throws anything away. Iím sure once the unit armorers start swapping out the round handguards and they start piling up at the depots they will be surplused. They will keep some for the integrally surpressed 9mm versions but thatís about it. There are several companies in Israel that I looked up while I was there last summer run by ex-IDF guys,  that do sell surplus, and ďtrainingĒ and equip movies. I have a new in packaging set of UZI grips from IMI dated 1961 and 1965 that I came across that I got more for nastalgia than actually needing them. So Iím sure they will show up... eventually. You would also need to cut the current full length sbr top rail and angle where the rear of the handguard meets the receiver if you wanted it to match the IDF x95 round handguard clone model. IWI doesnít sell that version. Or you could take the top rail off and mount a MARS optic, but you would need the gas cylinder from the US commercial IDF Tavor with the rear flip out BUIS and meprolight magnifier optic mount.
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cciman
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2018, 05:57:27 PM »

You really have it bad for that clone stuff. I've said it before, I don't understand the obsession, but I hope you're able to get what you want one day.

Making a "clone" holds little interest for me. I want a functional gun and the X95 as it came from the factory is perfect for me.

I bet they know you by name. When I go to the Shot Show in Jan, I'll ask about those parts for you if you like.

A mushroom hat should come with each piece.  A "clone" is not complete without one. Cheesy
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BellatorInvictus
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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2018, 07:37:19 PM »

You really have it bad for that clone stuff. I've said it before, I don't understand the obsession, but I hope you're able to get what you want one day.

Making a "clone" holds little interest for me. I want a functional gun and the X95 as it came from the factory is perfect for me.

I bet they know you by name. When I go to the Shot Show in Jan, I'll ask about those parts for you if you like.

Well thanks--I hope IWI decides to sell the parts some day as well. They hardly know me by name, but they should know of the round handguard thread and the interest here on Bullpup Forum.

Clones *are* functional guns. The IDF X95 clone I've been working on has a shorter length of pull than the civvie version, not to mention it's a lot lighter and better balanced. It has a pistol grip, red dot M21 sight, 3x magnifier, built-in flip-up BUIS, and tac light. The sling attaches with paracord because this provides for silence, unlike a typical clinky QD sling. The Israeli sling itself has clips on each end so it can still be easily removed in an emergency. Whatever you run on your "normal" X95, I'm guessing it probably includes some type of scope or red dot, sling, and light. Maybe a vertical grip, but I can run that too. So we're not that far off. For me, this is my primary home defense weapon. Having a silent sling, lighter weight, shorter LOP, and tac light are ideal. The fact that the M21 optic doesn't take batteries is also nice--one less thing to think about. It's a clone, but it's also totally practical for HD.

Military weapons are all about keeping things light, mission-specific, and tough. Further, I think there is historical and collectible value in having the same kit and look as military weapons.
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Throughout all history, there has been one class of people who have been ordinarily prohibited from bearing arms: slaves.

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -Stalin
BellatorInvictus
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2018, 07:43:42 PM »

The IDF nor IMI never throws anything away. Iím sure once the unit armorers start swapping out the round handguards and they start piling up at the depots they will be surplused. They will keep some for the integrally surpressed 9mm versions but thatís about it. There are several companies in Israel that I looked up while I was there last summer run by ex-IDF guys,  that do sell surplus, and ďtrainingĒ and equip movies. I have a new in packaging set of UZI grips from IMI dated 1961 and 1965 that I came across that I got more for nastalgia than actually needing them. So Iím sure they will show up... eventually. You would also need to cut the current full length sbr top rail and angle where the rear of the handguard meets the receiver if you wanted it to match the IDF x95 round handguard clone model. IWI doesnít sell that version. Or you could take the top rail off and mount a MARS optic, but you would need the gas cylinder from the US commercial IDF Tavor with the rear flip out BUIS and meprolight magnifier optic mount.

Yep I already have the IDF gas block with optic mount from a Tavor IDF16. I also have the Tavor mount for the M21, so all I need is the:

-round handguard with top and bottom pic rails, flip up front BUIS, and bracket that goes around the barrel
-front sling loop that attaches to the barrel
-rear paracord sling loop

This setup is nice because the rear BUIS is always available to pop up, unlike the regular IDF version which buries it under the M21. Of course, that allows the M21 to be QD, however. If IWI made that type of gas block with optic mount and shorter top rail available, I'd happily switch to that as that's the standard IDF version. In the meantime, I'm happy with it how I have it (minus the missing parts above, of course).
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Throughout all history, there has been one class of people who have been ordinarily prohibited from bearing arms: slaves.

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -Stalin
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2018, 12:47:04 AM »

Military weapons are all about keeping things light,...
Did you ever serve in any military?
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Verfed
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2018, 07:42:52 AM »

*another pic from the same week of training.


* אימון צאלים אוקטובר 2018 - Copy.jpg (357.12 KB, 1366x767 - viewed 67 times.)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 07:50:23 AM by Verfed » Logged
CODFan
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2018, 09:01:10 PM »





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Jean Cantius Garand was a Canadian designer of firearms best known for creating the first successful semi-automatic rifle to be widely used in active military service, the M1 Garand.
boscoman
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2018, 09:20:12 PM »

None of those ladies are Israeli. Anyone recognize the uniforms & what country they are from?
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RebellionOnIce
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2018, 09:44:00 PM »

Quote
None of those ladies are Israeli. Anyone recognize the uniforms & what country they are from?

Yeah, and if the 3rd one from the Left has an Instagram  Cheesy
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Verfed
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2018, 03:59:41 AM »

None of those ladies are Israeli. Anyone recognize the uniforms & what country they are from?

Those are Ukrainian soldiers. So those are most likely the Ukrainian built licensed versions - the Fort-224. http://www.fort.vn.ua/ru/34-shturmovaya-vintovka-fort-224/

"Kiev, Ukraine. 22nd Aug, 2018. Ukrainian servicewomen take part at a rehearsal of the military parade to Independence Day, in center of Kiev, Ukraine, on 22 August 2018. Ukraine will celebrate 27th anniversary of Independence on 24 August."

https://iz.ru/799644/2018-10-12/poroshenko-uravnial-prava-muzhchin-i-zhenshchin-pri-prokhozhdenii-voennoi-sluzhby
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MajorKong
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« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2018, 10:35:22 AM »

The flag in the background of the top photo was a giveaway. 
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boscoman
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« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2018, 11:07:56 PM »

None of those ladies are Israeli. Anyone recognize the uniforms & what country they are from?

Those are Ukrainian soldiers. So those are most likely the Ukrainian built licensed versions - the Fort-224. http://www.fort.vn.ua/ru/34-shturmovaya-vintovka-fort-224/

"Kiev, Ukraine. 22nd Aug, 2018. Ukrainian servicewomen take part at a rehearsal of the military parade to Independence Day, in center of Kiev, Ukraine, on 22 August 2018. Ukraine will celebrate 27th anniversary of Independence on 24 August."

https://iz.ru/799644/2018-10-12/poroshenko-uravnial-prava-muzhchin-i-zhenshchin-pri-prokhozhdenii-voennoi-sluzhby

Thanks for the info. At first I thought maybe Georgian but the uniforms weren't right.
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"Good people sleep peacefully in their beds at night, only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2018, 12:54:42 AM »

Wow, I guess they don't teach trigger discipline and muzzle control there.
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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2018, 06:17:21 AM »

Their fingers are not on the trigger. One way that many hold the Tavor is fully by the grip with the finger behind the trigger. Look art the SAR & X95 & you will see that there is a finger groove built in there.
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"Good people sleep peacefully in their beds at night, only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Courage is not a lack of fear, but one's ability to overcome it
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