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Author Topic: Tactical Training  (Read 872 times)
Kova39
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« on: September 09, 2018, 07:46:47 PM »

Hey guys.  I'm relatively new to the forum.  I'm scheduled to take a 4-day carbine class in Tennessee this November.  This will be my first class of this sort and I have a few questions.   It seems the vast majority of carbine classes are geared toward AR-15s (and some AKs), which only makes sense.  Has anyone else taken a general carbine class with their Tavor? What were your experiences and what can I expect?  Were you pretty much on your own trying to figure out how to take the AR15 weapon-handling techniques and apply them to the Tavor, or was the instructor knowledgeable on weapon manipulations specific to Tavors, or at least bullpups in general?  Any other general advice for someone new to civilian training classes would be greatly appreciated as well.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 08:06:41 PM by Kova39 » Logged
Kova39
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2018, 07:51:01 PM »

By the way, I already know IWI puts on Tavor Operator classes, so no need to suggest that.  I just can't afford both classes at this time.  Hopefully I can take take the Tavor Operator series in the future.  Being from Georgia, I just can't justify taking three separate trips to Ohio/Pennsylvania to take all three levels of Tavor Operator with my current funds.  Plus I want to do the 600 yard shooting this other class has to offer, so off to Tennessee I go for a few days.
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Kevlar
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2018, 02:29:47 PM »

Unless the instructor has experience with the platform you will likely be on your own.

Take the opportunity to train as you can afford it.

I have attended multiple courses where I had the only Tavor/X95.  You will still be able to learn.  But most of the how to weapon manipulation teaching was all AR centric.

I have also attended all 3 levels of the IWI Tavor operator classes.  In my opinion, these classes were better than the other big name instructors AND I learned how to use a Tavor/X95 from true SMEís

Tom A. and Malcomb M. from IWI are excellent instructors

Hope that helps
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Kova39
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2018, 07:37:33 PM »

Kevlar, do you have any experience with Valor Ridge?  That's where I'll be training this November, taking the Rifleman I and Midrange Rifle courses back to back.  I am thinking I may just use my AK for this class and then wait to use the Tavor when I can get out to the Tavor Operator courses.  That way I don't instill any bad habits by trying to figure out the Tavor on my own at this class, only to have to unlearn them later at the Tavor Operator course.
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Kevlar
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2018, 10:01:50 PM »

I have not attended a course at Valor Ridge.

Suggestion - contact them and ask about using your X95 at the course.  See what they say.

You have decide what rifle is best for you and how you want to spend valuable training time.

You will develop more good habits with your X95 only if you use it and figure some things out.
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Aussie E
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2018, 11:44:35 PM »

Use the X95.

AE
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Jack Flag
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2018, 08:51:57 AM »

Whatever rifle/carbine you take. I hope it hasn't been modified. Cheesy Evil


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE0Tx70KJiQ
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Aussie E
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2018, 10:31:36 AM »

Whatever rifle/carbine you take. I hope it hasn't been modified. Cheesy Evil


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE0Tx70KJiQ

Yeah, I'll never be taking one of their classes. I don't own a weapon that hasn't been "modified". Every AR I own was either built / assembled / modified to the point of just the receiver being original.

Run your Glock with Glock sights?  No optics? No aftermarket triggers? No aftermarket charging handle, might as well show up to class with a brick.

"You won't have problems with factory ammo" yeah right.

I would be requesting a refund immediately. I hope this info is on their class sign up page.

AE
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 10:42:04 AM by Aussie E » Logged
thehun
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2018, 03:21:48 PM »

LOL.

I will never spend a dime with them.

So because my gun has a Geissele trigger that is certified to be safe by SOPMOD cannot be allowed...stupid ludicrous.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 03:24:55 PM by thehun » Logged
patrick711
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2018, 04:02:48 PM »

What a crock of #$%^     His house an his rules, but I will never attend anything he runs. Malfunctions an breakdowns are part of using guns. They are also teaching moments on how to fix the problem an get back into the fight. Judging by the video he put out this morning it kinda looked like his class size if it fit the range as far as the number of targets must be like 50+    His video made him sound like "we dont have time to waste on individuals, we herd ya ll up an run ya ll thru the training"   
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Kevlar
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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2018, 07:55:57 PM »

Hmmm

Guess Iím disqualified from attending a course there since I have a G trigger pack and replaced the factory cutlass grip.

Oh well
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Kova39
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« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2018, 09:20:01 AM »

"Run your Glock with Glock sights?  No optics? No aftermarket triggers? No aftermarket charging handle, might as well show up to class with a brick."

Aussie, Reid does not allow internal modifications.  He pinned a comment under the video to further clarify this.  Sights and optics are allowed, in fact, they are recommended by him.  External modifications, such as grips, rails, stippling, etc., are all good to go as well.  I hear you though.  It's still a ridiculous rule.  Pretty much anyone who isn't completely new to firearms  has modified their guns' internal components in some manner.

My WASR-10 AK came defective right out the box.  The "sheppard's hook" retainer spring failed and my trigger just fell out (excellent quality control as usual by Century).  This certainly did not inspire confidence.  I took 5 minutes to replace the sheppard's hook with a $10 retainer plate and my WASR-10 has been an absolute beast for 1,000 rounds since then, reliable as hell and incredibly accurate.  I out-shoot my AR buddies with it regularly.  My WASR-10 went from POS to incredibly reliable with one simple modification.  Returning my AK to "factory" condition for his class would be absurd, as it would render my rifle inoperable, unreliable, and unsafe.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 09:33:08 AM by Kova39 » Logged
Kevlar
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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2018, 10:10:55 PM »

Kova39

Been thinking about this more and more. 

If you want to learn your X95 in an environment that might be more beneficial then I would highly encourage you to consider the IWI course.

Donít know how much that 4 day course runs but Iím pretty sure itís more than a 2 day IWI course with actual subject matter experts.

I understand his video and his point.  I just think he really botched the delivery.  But itís his class and itís at his house.

IWI for X95 / Tavor training is the way to go
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Aussie E
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« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2018, 12:12:26 AM »

I respected Reid when he left the ditch from Buck Angel, but now I'm like:  Roll Eyes.

AE
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Rastoff
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« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2018, 12:43:49 PM »

Kova39,
You will not have any trouble in any quality class with your Tavor. Any school worth their salt will be able to help you with your Tavor even if you're the only one in the class. There are certain quirks about bullpups in general, but nothing that will prevent your ability to learn at that class.

In my opinion, you'll have more fun with the Tavor than the AK.


About the Valley Ridge requirements:
I agree with their strict adherence to no internal modifications. I too have been in classes and seen many people who thought they knew what they were doing, but their gun didn't work. That said, I don't agree with being overly rigid in this area. You cannot tell me that a drop in trigger from Timney or Geissele is a bad thing. I understand if the pull weight is too light. I understand if an AR was made from an 80% lower. But these things can be checked very quickly on day one. And, if a gun fails, you don't have to stop the whole class. That one student can drop out and get their back up without stopping training for the other students.

I completely agree with requiring factory ammo. I'm a reloader and I like my rounds better than most factory stuff. Still, I don't trust YOUR rounds and don't want to be next to you when you blow up your gun. I've seen that too.
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Kova39
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« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2018, 03:35:34 PM »

It seems they're being pretty reasonable yall. I sent Valor Ridge a message this morning and received a timely response. I told them I had to change my shepherd's crook retainer spring out for a solid retainer plate because the spring failed on my AK.  Anyway, here was their response:

That is fine. A retainer plate does not change the function of the rifle. Many factory AK rifles come with that part.

See you on the Ridge,

Kay, VR Admin Team
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Kova39
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« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2018, 03:48:45 PM »

Now that we have that issue settled.   I'm sure I will just bring the Tavor to class now anyway.  Grin
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Aussie E
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« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2018, 05:16:50 PM »

Just to clarify, I 100% agree with the factory ammo rule. I would even go one step further and require new factory ammo, too many factories are producing remanufactured ammo that is considered factory ammo. What I meant with my an post is that you very may well have issues with your firearm with new factory ammo in a class.

AE
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Rastoff
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« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2018, 11:53:56 PM »

Now that we have that issue settled.   I'm sure I will just bring the Tavor to class now anyway.  Grin
Only the right thing to do!


...too many factories are producing remanufactured ammo that is considered factory ammo.
I hope none are doing that. In fact, it would be illegal to call reman ammo, factory new ammo. Every remanufacturer I know of states it clearly on the box. To do otherwise would be false advertising and put any one of them out of business immediately.

Now, maybe you meant that some people think reman ammo is as good as factory new ammo? That would be a different story altogether.
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Aussie E
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« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2018, 12:13:37 AM »

Nowhere did I say they are marketing remanufactured ammo as "new", just that people consider it "factory" therefore it's as good as "new factory".

AR
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