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Author Topic: DUDE! Panzer Arms - bullpup semi-auto shotgun. Kinda want!  (Read 2146 times)
LazyEngineer
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« on: September 08, 2018, 01:30:41 PM »



Anyone know much about this brand or this model in particular?
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scstrain
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2018, 09:04:12 AM »

I like them but they are not 922R compliant. As of yet, no American made parts available to make them so.
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akiraproject24
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2018, 11:14:55 PM »

Looks a lot like the Caretta 12 I saw a turkish vid on.  No idea what they were saying but it looked pretty sweet.  There is another turkish company Uzkon.  They have a model called the Uzkon UNG-12 M1,  Currently EAA is set to import but nothing on their site yet.  There is a UNG-12 which is beefier but the UNG-12 M1 looks perfect!
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commoncents
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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2018, 11:58:52 PM »

exciting times for innovative bullpup designs!   i have the KSG now but would def consider a semi-auto if one proves reliable.  at 500 n change for the panzer, might have to take a chance and try it out.

one concern with shotgun mag fed, do shells deform when sitting in magazine for a long time for home defense, that could cause cycling issues?
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2018, 10:04:07 PM »

I like them but they are not 922R compliant. As of yet, no American made parts available to make them so.

What makes them 922r non-compliant?  I'm seeing them for sale at several locations.
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Kurt
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2018, 11:22:32 PM »

922R has to do with imported semi auto rifles and shotguns.  For them to be compliant they have to have a certain number of American made parts. If you do a Google search you can find out all about 922R and the "Parts Lists". This is the reason all these imports are shipped into the U.S.A. with 5 round magazines.

When Saiga shotguns were being imported a whole Industry was created of companies making replacement parts from the list here in America to make them compliant. When compliant, high capacity magazines could be used along with AR type grips etc.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2018, 01:06:36 AM »

922R has to do with imported semi auto rifles and shotguns.  For them to be compliant they have to have a certain number of American made parts. If you do a Google search you can find out all about 922R and the "Parts Lists". This is the reason all these imports are shipped into the U.S.A. with 5 round magazines.

When Saiga shotguns were being imported a whole Industry was created of companies making replacement parts from the list here in America to make them compliant. When compliant, high capacity magazines could be used along with AR type grips etc.


I am well acquainted with 922r, having been buying firearms since before it was enacted. Your explanation did not answer the question I asked; what makes these specific shotguns non-compliant?  ATF seems to think they are given that they've been cleared for sale along with numerous other imported magazine fed shotguns.
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Kurt
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2018, 12:34:20 AM »

Brought mine home this afternoon.  Overall, I'm pretty impressed with it and if it is reliable, it'll make a good choice for defending the hut.  There are some things I wasn't 100% thrilled with, however.

1.  Weight.  It's a heavy beast and feels heavier than my Benelli M4 and my MDR.  However, once shouldered, it seems to just "fit" and lock in.

2.  Trigger.  The trigger does feel a bit heavy, but in a defensive situation, I'm not sure I'd notice.  Still, it is something to consider if you're going to use this for more sporting purposes to put Daffy or Bugs on a dish for dinner.

3.  Sling mount points.  This one is probably the most annoying nit I have to pick.  There are QD points on the forward 1913 rail sections (I really wish they would have carved them off and gone to M-Lok and saved a few ounces), but there aren't any QD mounts on the rear of the shotgun.  There is a loop molded into the stock's heel, but I hate those as the firearm never lays right when I sling it and it really destroys a lot of the utility a 2 point adjustable sling like the Ferro Concepts Slingster brings to the table.

4.  No choke tubes.  This is a "what you get is all you get" barrel, and I hope that either the aftermarket or the manufacturer brings out a replacement barrel that will allow the use of a common pattern choke tube.  However, this is a really minor issue and not something that would influence me if I were to buy another, it's more like a "want to have" instead of a "have to have".

That said, there are some things that I really like.

1.  Two magazines.  They could have shipped one, but shipped two which was a nice surprise.

2.  BUIS and AFG that are either OEM from Magpul or knockoffs.  If they are knockoffs, then they're damned good ones.  The AFG really helps lock the shotgun into your shoulder and feels more natural for your support hand given the short foreend.

3.  Tools.  You get a cleaning kit and a take down wrench that looks like it could be used to remove a receiver extension nut as well.

4.  Multiple ways to charge the shotgun.  From the factory, the shotgun has a right side charging handle and an AR pattern charging handle.  I'm not sure if a normal AR charging handle will fit, if I get bored this weekend I might give it a try.  If it doesn't fit, I'd be curious to see if an AR-10 charging handle would fit.  Either the side charging handle (which isn't reciprocating) (edit:  my mistake, I was tired last night when I wrote this.  The charging handle *does* reciprocate, but it appears that it doesn't need to be installed for proper function.) or the AR handle can be used to load the shotgun.  The side charging handle may be repositioned to the left side if the user desires.

That's about it until I have a chance to shoot it.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 01:05:53 PM by kfeltenberger » Logged

Kurt
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2018, 08:16:23 AM »

MSRP? Does it accept regular AR aftermarket pistol grips?

AE
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2018, 01:04:17 PM »

MSRP? Does it accept regular AR aftermarket pistol grips?

AE

Dunno.  Looking at the exploded view in the manual, it certainly appears like it could.  There are two screws in the assembly; one that secures the grip to the receiver and one that secures a plug to the bottom of the grip.  From the illustration, it appears that the receiver is milled similarly to that of an AR.  But...and this is the caveat, I'm just looking at the parts diagram and haven't tried this. 

It would be nice if it could, I think a more vertical grip would actually be better and keep my wrist away from smacking the mag well.
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Kurt
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2018, 01:07:14 PM »

Just a quick followup for those who read my initial review...I made a mistake when I said the side charging handle didn't reciprocate; it does.  All I can do is plead exhaustion for the mistake.  That said, it does appear that the shotgun will function without the charging handle if you wanted to go "full AR".

Sorry for the confusion!
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Kurt
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2018, 02:53:09 PM »

MSRP? Does it accept regular AR aftermarket pistol grips?

AE

Dunno.  Looking at the exploded view in the manual, it certainly appears like it could.  There are two screws in the assembly; one that secures the grip to the receiver and one that secures a plug to the bottom of the grip.  From the illustration, it appears that the receiver is milled similarly to that of an AR.  But...and this is the caveat, I'm just looking at the parts diagram and haven't tried this. 

It would be nice if it could, I think a more vertical grip would actually be better and keep my wrist away from smacking the mag well.

That what I was thinking, something like a K2+.

Ballpark price?

AE
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2018, 03:23:30 PM »


That what I was thinking, something like a K2+.

Ballpark price?

AE

Sorry about that, I missed the question on price.  I've seen them for as low as $530 and as high and $590, with the lower prices being terminally out of stock.  Given that both extremes in price are from known "low price vendors", I'm not sure how the lower price vendors are making a profit except in perhaps add on accessories.
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Kurt
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« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2018, 03:39:56 PM »

Is the pistol grip interchangeable with the AK or AR15 platforms or are they proprietary? Also, is the mag release based on the AR or AK platforms or proprietary?  Thanks
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 03:42:11 PM by Bullpup777 » Logged
kfeltenberger
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« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2018, 09:00:41 PM »

Is the pistol grip interchangeable with the AK or AR15 platforms or are they proprietary? Also, is the mag release based on the AR or AK platforms or proprietary?  Thanks

If anything, the grip is an AR pattern grip.  Eyeballing them side by side, the shotgun and an AR, I'd say that the grips are the same size.  However, until I have a chance (or someone else does) to remove it and try to fit an AR grip, I can only speculate.

The mag release is pure AR pattern.  There's a button on the right side and a on the left side, the catch is extended so that you can activate it from that side as well. 

Overall, I'm impressed with the design and would really like to see if this design could be resized for a rifle caliber.
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Kurt
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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2018, 02:05:18 PM »

Thanks for the info - very helpful.  Can the interior of the barrel be threaded so as to accept a VEPR or Remington choke tube?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 02:10:01 PM by Bullpup777 » Logged
kfeltenberger
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« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2018, 04:13:46 PM »

Thanks for the info - very helpful.  Can the interior of the barrel be threaded so as to accept a VEPR or Remington choke tube?

Dunno.  I think it might be easier to see if there was a compatible barrel from another shotgun made by the manufacturer that could be used.  The big shroud, though, does come off.
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Kurt
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« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2018, 07:26:54 PM »

Does it have a last round bolt hold feature?  If not, how do you accomplish quick mag changes?  Thanks.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2018, 08:26:36 PM »

Does it have a last round bolt hold feature?  If not, how do you accomplish quick mag changes?  Thanks.

Yes, it is exactly like an AR in that regard.  Last round holds open, there is a bolt lock/release, a magazine release on the right side and one on the left.
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Kurt
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« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2018, 09:04:47 PM »

Great! Thanks for the info.  Looks like a really well thought out platform.
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