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Author Topic: DT Sponsored MDR Q&A thread.  (Read 16935 times)
coldboremiracle
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« Reply #80 on: August 03, 2018, 05:36:21 PM »

along with it being suspect in CBM's youtube vids with the cracked hand guard
I thought I had explained that already, the cracked handguard was caused by shooting the reflex handguard with no suppressor or muzzle device.
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« Reply #81 on: August 03, 2018, 05:56:21 PM »

Tim from Military Arms Channel mentions in his latest MDR video the 556 kits are out, is that statement true or is he mistaken?

AE
Dont know where he got that info, but I haven't seen any ship out.

You know it's just like '.308 MDRs shipped Summer 2017'... = not really.  Grin
I'm assuming no reviewers have 5.56 MDRs as of yet?
Not sure what you mean bout that, MDR's did ship in August 2017. I know of at least one reviewer at Tactical Life Mag had an MDR with both 556 and 308 barrels.
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« Reply #82 on: August 03, 2018, 09:20:40 PM »

Tim from Military Arms Channel mentions in his latest MDR video the 556 kits are out, is that statement true or is he mistaken?

AE
Dont know where he got that info, but I haven't seen any ship out.

You know it's just like '.308 MDRs shipped Summer 2017'... = not really.  Grin
I'm assuming no reviewers have 5.56 MDRs as of yet?
Not sure what you mean bout that, MDR's did ship in August 2017. I know of at least one reviewer at Tactical Life Mag had an MDR with both 556 and 308 barrels.

How about to us normal plebes and not members of the media or industry?  When are the 5.56 guns/kits shipping?
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Kurt
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« Reply #83 on: August 03, 2018, 09:25:53 PM »

Yes, please let us know when we can get 5.56 kits for our MDRs!!
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Robin Rothenfluh, Switzerland


« Reply #84 on: August 06, 2018, 07:41:05 AM »

Mr. Young:

Is the handguard sturdy/solid enough to mount a scope up front w/o sacrificing accuracy?
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« Reply #85 on: August 06, 2018, 10:11:29 PM »

Mr. Young:

Is the handguard sturdy/solid enough to mount a scope up front w/o sacrificing accuracy?

Per user experience, it is not. Were it an aluminum handguard, perhaps, but thatís yet to be determined.
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« Reply #86 on: August 09, 2018, 07:46:37 AM »

ney1 / Toybuilder 1 ( I like the toybuilder title...LOL )

 Thank you for your exceptional patience and ongoing CS MDR support with this Q&A thread for us forum members. ( It speaks volumes about your honor & integrity )

I personally admire & understand the commitment of time and personal management of character defects needed to answer all these questions ... in a small way ! Probably due to my manufacturing of custom weapon components for a niche weapon platform.... however.... I only produce 5-6 components which have tested my consumer patience level at times.... beyond belief !!! I believe your on the " right road " with this DT Sponsored thread.

I will report that I was pleasantly surprised with the accuracy right out of the case with my MDR. I only have about 60 rds down range.

I would like to explore a few concerns that my weapon exhibited on it's 1st outing.

In reference to
Post 43
Question 21
The charging handle not locking up on the last round holdback. It's a little confusing to me how the OP reported the CH locking on 1 side and not the other.  I can't say mine locked up on one side - vs - the other. What mine did consistently was not lock up on last round hold back and float forward into the middle of the slot/stroke pathway.

I did start out on the Adversed setting due to the "Break In Procedure Card"  and quickly found overgassing thus turned it to Normal. I was not damaging brass on " N ". This kind of messed with my Chi at the clubs range table since I couldn't find anything in the manual referencing this unusual charging handle concern.
OR I missed it Huh??
What appears to be happening is the  ( Bolt Group  ) is staying back ( locked ) and the CH is possibly not making the distance needed - OR - separating / detaching from the assemblies travel to the rear. Maybe it's bouncing forward at the end Huh?

Please forgive the lack of troubleshooting , I just couldn't get my head around all the information in the UM.

I did run IMI .308 exclusively  and referenced The User Manual ( pg 23 ) several times... it was not my charging handle clearing speed that had anything to do with this. Once the bolt group stuck back and the CH was " drifting " I had to repeatedly pull the ejection panel checking for the last shell. Once I even knocked it loose and it fell down into the buttstock thus needing upper receiver take down.
Yes I did have the previously mentioned 3rd pin tight tolerance issue but that is the least on my concerns.

If there is a fix for this please advise, i'm not interested in shipping the weapon back n forth. I will if it's a must.

On another note I would be interested in exploring the possibility of manufacturing an extended rear mag release as an AM product. I would like to hear your thoughts on that subject, it's not my intention to step on DT's ( your ) toes.

Thx
Mike
 

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« Reply #87 on: August 10, 2018, 12:07:26 AM »

ney1 / Toybuilder 1 ( I like the toybuilder title...LOL )

 Thank you for your exceptional patience and ongoing CS MDR support with this Q&A thread for us forum members. ( It speaks volumes about your honor & integrity )

I personally admire & understand the commitment of time and personal management of character defects needed to answer all these questions ... in a small way ! Probably due to my manufacturing of custom weapon components for a niche weapon platform.... however.... I only produce 5-6 components which have tested my consumer patience level at times.... beyond belief !!! I believe your on the " right road " with this DT Sponsored thread.

I will report that I was pleasantly surprised with the accuracy right out of the case with my MDR. I only have about 60 rds down range.

I would like to explore a few concerns that my weapon exhibited on it's 1st outing.

In reference to
Post 43
Question 21
The charging handle not locking up on the last round holdback. It's a little confusing to me how the OP reported the CH locking on 1 side and not the other.  I can't say mine locked up on one side - vs - the other. What mine did consistently was not lock up on last round hold back and float forward into the middle of the slot/stroke pathway.

I did start out on the Adversed setting due to the "Break In Procedure Card"  and quickly found overgassing thus turned it to Normal. I was not damaging brass on " N ". This kind of messed with my Chi at the clubs range table since I couldn't find anything in the manual referencing this unusual charging handle concern.
OR I missed it Huh??
What appears to be happening is the  ( Bolt Group  ) is staying back ( locked ) and the CH is possibly not making the distance needed - OR - separating / detaching from the assemblies travel to the rear. Maybe it's bouncing forward at the end Huh?

Please forgive the lack of troubleshooting , I just couldn't get my head around all the information in the UM.

I did run IMI .308 exclusively  and referenced The User Manual ( pg 23 ) several times... it was not my charging handle clearing speed that had anything to do with this. Once the bolt group stuck back and the CH was " drifting " I had to repeatedly pull the ejection panel checking for the last shell. Once I even knocked it loose and it fell down into the buttstock thus needing upper receiver take down.
Yes I did have the previously mentioned 3rd pin tight tolerance issue but that is the least on my concerns.

If there is a fix for this please advise, i'm not interested in shipping the weapon back n forth. I will if it's a must.

On another note I would be interested in exploring the possibility of manufacturing an extended rear mag release as an AM product. I would like to hear your thoughts on that subject, it's not my intention to step on DT's ( your ) toes.

Thx
Mike
 



  Glad to see you are enjoying your MDR Mike.  Given that you mentioned the "N" setting I'm guessing you have the three position gas plug that shipped with the rifle.  The 6 position plug is vastly superior to the three hole one you currently have, and will prevent brass damage when you get the gun broken in.  It's really worth getting, especially being free.  If the rifle is cycling on the "N" setting it should be fine to shoot it like that during the break in.  If you run into short cycling issues just turn it back up to adverse.

  Good to hear you are doing okay with the IMI ammo.  Some MDR owners have had issues with torn rims using IMI so just a heads up.  For what its worth my MDR doesn't seem to like 168 and heavier loads, giving me torn rims on M118LR.  I think the IMI stuff people were having issues with was heavier too.  The MDR seems to like the 150gr range.

  As for the charging handle locking; the MDR has a non reciprocating charging handle and there are no springs to push it into the rear locked position on an empty mag.  The charging handle is designed to stay locked forward during firing but tends to come loose on an empty mag because the bolt, and thus the recoil spring are locked back.  When loading from an empty mag/ bolt lock there are two ways to charge the rifle; the bolt catch at the rear, and slingshotting the charging handle.  Both will send the bolt forward and charge the rifle. 

  There's enough tension on the spent case in the ejection chute that it will stay in there until the bolt is sent forward pushing it out in the process.
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« Reply #88 on: August 18, 2018, 12:45:51 PM »

Mr. Young, have you had a chance to catch up on the questions asked?
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« Reply #89 on: August 23, 2018, 04:22:42 AM »

Guys,
We have completed development on the 5.56 conversion kit.  We had the gun completely validated unsuppressed and we started validated the rifle with a host of suppressors and we were having a lot of malfunctions.  In the end we needed to alter the extractor to have more engagement and tighten it up and that corrected all of the issues.  We need to order production extractors of the new design.  We will be putting a update video out in the next day or two with the updated ship date. 

There is a lot of miss-information being spread around the internet about MIM technology.  MIM technology is an advanced technology that allows very complex parts to be made into production, MIM technology allows parts to be much lighter because you can shave excess metal off of parts that you couldn't otherwise machine. MIM parts don't have internal stresses that machined parts do which can increase the useful life of the MIM part over a machined part.  For example our MIM'd extractor lasts over twice as long as the machined extractors we built in testing, hence the MIM extractor lasts over 12K+ rounds and machined extractors break at 4-5K rounds?  Had we machined all of the parts the MDR would be at least a pound heavier and sell for $5,000 and the parts wouldn't have had the same endurance as MIM.  Sig, IWI, Colt, S&W, and about 20 other US gun companies all MIM the same types of parts as we do and get them from the same foreign MIM supplier that we use at Desert Tech, LLC.

As far as the sourcing for the MIM we utilize two companies one is a US company and the other is a foreign company the foreign company was approached because the US company couldn't MIM all of the parts we needed. In fact the foreign company won best in class industry award in the MIM industry for creating a new MIM technology to make the MDR parts we hired them to make. So if you think that because a foreign company makes the parts they are by default garbage parts, then you are very ignorant, please just stop miss-leading everyone and pretending to be an expert.  Sig, Colt, S&W, and IWI and about 20 other gun companies use the same foreign MIM supplier that we do.  Anyone that doesn't believe me can visit their booth at next years shot show because they display everyones parts there.

In regards to the warranty rate we have experienced on the MDR, we have analyzed it and our initial warranty rate was 5% which is higher than is acceptable and we have been addressing those issues and putting appropriate measures in place to avoid further warranty issues as well as fixing all of the rifles.  Our goal is to get the warranty rate to be less than 1% and we are confident that everything we have done is going to get us to that on everything we are shipping now.  If anyone has a gun that isn't functioning 100% please send it in because we guarantee they will all run like we advertise the MDR to be.

We have had some initial teething pains with the MDR but we have things under control and the MDR is every bit what we have said it to be. 

I will go through the questions now and post in another post.  I am sorry I have been away and didn't answer everything sooner.  Just know I'm crazy busy and barely sleep as it is.

Thanks

Nick
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« Reply #90 on: August 23, 2018, 05:36:10 AM »

Q&A Update:
37. What exact % of MDRs shipped have come back for warranty service as of today?  

A.   Initial warranty rate was averaging 5%, however with the measures we have taken so far then the rate is almost near our goal of <1%.  We experienced some toothing pains producing the MDR but they were not the norm and they have been remedied.  If anyone has issues with theirs please send it in and we will get it fixed.

38. If you purchased the MDR through the Bullpupfirum group buy, are you able to get the Desert Tech Red Dot for $100?

A.   We havenít worked out a deal to do that but if you have John call Carson our Sales manager I think we could do something.

39. What other parts are MIM on the rifle?  So far I think we know that these parts are MIM: barrel block/trunnion, gas glock, ejector, chute, dust cover, extractor, extractor link, ejector retainer.

A.   There are a lot, I honestly donít recall all of them that are MIMíd however read my last post as I went into detail about MIM technology and set the record straight.

40. Do we have any further updates on the .223 / 5.56 versions?

A.   Yes we fixed the issue we had running it suppressed and we are ordering production extractors now.  We will be doing a video announcement in the next day or two.

41. Awesome.  Will there be a torture test video soon?

A.   Yes, it has been posted on our youtube channel
Mud test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fk1e-SSKE0&t=72s
Drop test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_DfAQ_hwO0&t=55s
   Bore obstruction test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqjJNNc_HVc

42. Is there any truth to the 6 pos. Gas valve being free to current MDR owners.  And if so, will the current owners get a refund after buying the 6pos gas valve.

A.   Yes, it is now free and we are issuing store credit for those who purchased it previously.

43. There was some discussion as to how one would go about cerakoting / hydrodipping their MDR, which would require complete disassembly, beyond what DT recommends, while still keeping the warranty.

A.   The reason we donít encourage further disassembly is because most of the fasteners are chemically bonded in place and if they are removed and reinstalled improperly then users can damage their guns.  If it was only coated on the outside of the rifle then we would still honor the warranty.  If you coated the interior of the rifle you could turn the rifle into chewing gum so be careful if you paint it.

44. Many people expressed their desire for some sort of certified cerakoting company that has been taught and deputized by Desert Tech for how to do it properly and reassemble the guns properly so as to get Desert Tech's approval, that customers who go through that company will keep their warranty. That, or just the option for Desert Tech themselves to do the work for a price, but I feel that deputizing another entity would be more prudent.
Is there any chance Desert Tech could consider such an arrangement with such a company?

A.   We are starting a custom shop for Cerakoting and Hydro-dipping in-house at Desert Tech.  It will take a bit of time to get it rolling.  We will only Cerakote solid colors but hydro-dip camo and such.  We would also be happy to bring any other custom painter/coater in to get certified on how to do it without hindering the warranty.

45. In relation to the drop-test video, were any of the parts that broke reinforced or redesigned after the test to alleviate those issues? HK's breaking charging handles is pretty normal for them, so I don't consider that to be a major issue, but I was wondering specifically if the MDR's pistol grip was reinforced at all.

A.   We are testing some stronger resins, the problem is shrink rates between resins vary so we canít definitively say if there will be a stronger resin in the future.

46. Would Desert Tech be open to the idea of offering an optional high-profile rear magazine release?

A.   Please explain further, are you wanting a mag release button that protrudes more?  We havenít considered this previously, I havenít seen many requests for one but we have companies we are working with to produce aftermarket parts for the MDR and this would be a good candidate for that.

47. Does Desert Tech have any plans to alleviate the problems with the stiffness of the magazine releases?

A.   We are going to make a video to show everyone tips on how to improve their mag release stiffness.  The reason we havenít yet is because the engineer who is going to do the video has been working on the 5.56 conversion kit.  Now that he has finished it we will get the video out very soon.  We have much improved the assembly processes to smooth out the mag release buttons too but honestly they will never be as light as an AR15 because the linkage requires more pressure but it can be much better.  I will make it a point to get the video done asap.

48.   Would Desert Tech be open to the idea of offering an optional low-profile gas block, one that isn't exposed to the outside and isn't prone to burning fingers? That, or perhaps some sort of cover or guard?

49.   If you are willing to share, Iím curious what that BCG problem was with the .223 MDR.

A.   Certain suppressors were causing excessive malfunctions which we correct by improving the extractor to grip the casing more firmly.  We tested increasing the dwell time, moving the gas block down the barrel and many other things but at the end it was the extractor.

50.   Are there any other calibers being considered after .300blackout?

A.   Absolutely, however we arenít going to announce them until they are in production for obvious reasons.  Got to redeem ourselves.

51.   Will the MDR-C handguard be available separately, as the suppressor handguard is?

A.   Yes

52.    Is the Airsoft Silverback MDR licensed with Desert Techís permission?

A.   Yes

53.   Others have mentioned that a possible fix to the ripping rims issue might be increasing the area of extractor engagement. Thoughts?

A.   Yes, itís a good idea and if we decided to do that in the future then it would be a retrofitable drop in part.

54.   Some rifles with deeper magazine wells wonít take 10rd Magpul pmags. Does the MDR in .223 accept 10rd .223/5.56 Magpul pmags?

A.   I donít know about 10 rd PMAGS, I do know the 5.56 works with the 10 rd Lancers though as I have one.

55.   Can the charging handles function as forward assists?

A.   No

56.   Will .223 also receive a 6-position gas valve as .308 did?

A.   Yes

57.   How Desert Tech feels about ES Tactical (who make the 6.5 Creedmoor conversion)

A.   They are fantastic!  He is getting phenomenal accuracy with his 6.5 MDR.  He builds us one-off production barrels for special projects all of the time and he is local here in Utah.

58.   Tim from Military Arms Channel mentions in his latest MDR video the 556 kits are out, is that statement true or is he mistaken?

A.   Tim was mistaken.

59.   Is the MDR ever coming to California?  And if so, when?

A.   Yes, CS Tactical has put together a California variant already.  https://www.cstactical.com
https://www.facebook.com/CSTactical/photos/a.171402389568949/2157506680958500/?type=3&theater

60.   Are you updated about the various gun-neutering laws we now have on the books in CA?  Namely:
- the index finger mag releases have to be bullet-buttoned and the rear mag release has to be disabled.
- the grip has to be redesigned have a fin to prevent the thumb from wrapping around the grip; a same-side thumb shelf rest design would be nice (hint hint)
- the factory muzzle device cannot have any flash reduction features (i.e. muzzle brake only).
- and of course the previous laws still apply like 30" minimum total length

A.   I am not up to speed on the new law, our compliance officer is and works with our team as we inquire.  Honestly we wonít get to the CA compliant rifle very soon as we are still tied up.  CS Tactical is your best bet in getting a CA compliant rifle quick.

61. There was mention of a video or instructions on one of your responses concerning reducing the force needed on the mag release. I would like that info posted, although after reviewing the mechanics I can only see that happening by removing and replacing the spring which if offered would either void the warranty or require shipping back to DT.  

A.   There are numerous things that we do and we will try to post the video up by next week sometime.

62. One item that is highly desired on my part would be that DT work with Houge, Inc to produce a Houge grip for the MDR.

A.   We are pursuing aftermarket parts companies already and Houge is a great suggestion.
63. Just for future reference: I can't see any standardization on drop tests where "some guy (gal)" drops the object.  This should be performed by a machine to be a "standard" as carbon based life forms can have a major impact how an object is dropped, guided part of the way, twist the object, etc.  If the military truly has no "standard machine requirements" on the drop tests, how about becoming a leader in the industry and design a simple device that drops an object consistently every single time so apples can be compared to apples.  Just my $0.02 cents <pre-tax of course>

A. I think the same thing.

64. Is the handguard sturdy/solid enough to mount a scope up front w/o sacrificing accuracy?

A.   The best practice is to mount your scope to your rifles upper receiver because it is closer to your barrel mount then the handguard and receivers are usually stiffer then handguards.  I would recommend using the handguard to mount lasers and lights and keep the scope on your receiver.  You will get similar stiffness on the MDR handguard that you would find on any other AR platform.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx_YiuuSGb0

65. The charging handle not locking up on the last round holdback. It's a little confusing to me how the OP reported the CH locking on 1 side and not the other.  I can't say mine locked up on one side - vs - the other. What mine did consistently was not lock up on last round hold back and float forward into the middle of the slot/stroke pathway. I did start out on the Adversed setting due to the "Break In Procedure Card"  and quickly found overgassing thus turned it to Normal. I was not damaging brass on " N ". This kind of messed with my Chi at the clubs range table since I couldn't find anything in the manual referencing this unusual charging handle concern.  OR I missed it ?  What appears to be happening is the ( Bolt Group) is staying back ( locked ) and the CH is possibly not making the distance needed - OR - separating / detaching from the assemblies travel to the rear. Maybe it's bouncing forward at the end  .  Please forgive the lack of troubleshooting , I just couldn't get my head around all the information in the UM.  I did run IMI .308 exclusively  and referenced The User Manual ( pg 23 ) several times... it was not my charging handle clearing speed that had anything to do with this. Once the bolt group stuck back and the CH was " drifting " I had to repeatedly pull the ejection panel checking for the last shell. Once I even knocked it loose and it fell down into the buttstock thus needing upper receiver take down.  Yes I did have the previously mentioned 3rd pin tight tolerance issue but that is the least on my concerns.  If there is a fix for this please advise, i'm not interested in shipping the weapon back n forth. I will if it's a must.  


A.   The charging handle does not reciprocate and it does not lock back with the bolt carrier on the last round.  Your bolt stop is what locks the bolt open on the last round.  


66. On another note I would be interested in exploring the possibility of manufacturing an extended rear mag release as an AM product. I would like to hear your thoughts on that subject, it's not my intention to step on DT's ( your ) toes.

A.   Go right ahead brother!


As we understand it then we have filled all of the MDR .308 WIN orders for the bullpup forum, please let me know if anyone got missed.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 01:09:15 PM by ney1 » Logged

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« Reply #91 on: August 23, 2018, 09:18:13 AM »

Nick,
Thank you for taking the time to engage with the community. I know it can be stressful
And thanks for creating the MDR i am very happy with mine.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

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« Reply #92 on: August 23, 2018, 10:11:05 AM »

Hello Nick,
Around what serial number did you guys fix that scratched chamber issue that was causing stuck cases/torn rims? I get them sporadically with Hirtenberger surplus, which I understand is high-quality ammo with strong brass. I haven't had a lot of range time to fiddle with the gas settings, but I get short strokes on Suppressed and occasional torn rims/stuck cases on Normal. I'm awaiting my six-position gas plug. Should I send my barrel in or see if the gas plug fixes the problem?
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« Reply #93 on: August 23, 2018, 11:31:19 AM »

Mr Business,

I would try the 6-pos gas valve first and if that doesn't fix the issue then send it in.
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« Reply #94 on: August 23, 2018, 11:53:47 AM »

Mr Business,

I would try the 6-pos gas valve first and if that doesn't fix the issue then send it in.

Will do. Thanks for the quick reply and for the free gas plug. I appreciate that you and DT are doing this.
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« Reply #95 on: August 23, 2018, 12:53:03 PM »

I really appreciate your patience with us and continued support!  Thanks!
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« Reply #96 on: August 23, 2018, 01:17:35 PM »

I really appreciate your patience with us and continued support!  Thanks!

I got missed from the group buy. Deposit was sent to Jon. FDE 308
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« Reply #97 on: August 23, 2018, 01:25:44 PM »

Q&A Update:

As we understand it then we have filled all of the MDR .308 WIN orders for the bullpup forum, please let me know if anyone got missed.



I was TOTALLY missed!!!
I was literally PRE-Group Buy and even called Jon way back when and told him of the MDR in the very first place.

Please fix this!

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« Reply #98 on: August 23, 2018, 01:45:29 PM »

Radius,
Thanks for letting me know, please contact John as we have not been able to reach him for some time.  If anyone has been missed please let me know.  We have virtually filled all 308 win MDR backorders that we are aware of so the next guns will be hitting the dealer shelves.
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« Reply #99 on: August 23, 2018, 02:50:55 PM »

Radius,
Thanks for letting me know, please contact John as we have not been able to reach him for some time.  If anyone has been missed please let me know.  We have virtually filled all 308 win MDR backorders that we are aware of so the next guns will be hitting the dealer shelves.

Yes, me. Money paid to Jon for 308 FDE and I have not received the MDR or any contact.
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