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Author Topic: DT Sponsored MDR Q&A thread.  (Read 8210 times)
ney1
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« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2018, 02:18:34 PM »

When the mdr either can't fire or requires adjustment to fire some ammo without getting stuck cases that other rifles in the same category (Scar, MWS, Fal, G3,  Rfb, etc) do without issue is that not seen as a problem for what the mdr is advertised and sold as? I'm still sticking cases with the 6position plug on ammo that I've never had an issue with in other autoloaders.

To address this you are welcome to call me and I would like to get more details into the issues, their frequency, and what ammunition brands you have tested.  I will be available in our office at 3PM mtn time for your call. 801-975-7272.  

To answer your question in general I would say "yes the MDR should fire all quality brands of ammunition through it reliably".  But, not all ammunition is created equally and for many quality = cheapest bulk price ammunition they can find.  Now I am not sure if you have fired all of the rifles you have listed above but we have and I would like to give you some insight on what we have experienced with them.  I am not by any means bashing their products but reporting actual results we got and for fun I will be evaluating them with the same level of scrutiny that many are giving the MDR.  Now understand the results I post are 100% honest but I will list a sarcastic hyper scrutinized list of what people would be saying if they evaluated these rifles the same way some people are evaluating the MDR.

1. FN SCAR, we tested two scars against the MDR.  Both scars were flawlessly reliable in feeding "quality" ammunition through them as was our MDR test guns with the same "quality" ammunition.  However one of the two scars would not stabilize match ammunition in our accuracy tests and at 100 yards we could only get three shots on a 36"x24" target board and those three shots formed an group over 18".  The other SCAR shot 1.5 MOA regularly.  In our bore obstruction testing then the SCAR's lower receiver blew up like a grenade.  
Now lets do the fun MDR scrutiny test:
a. All scars should stablize the same ammunition right (>36" accuracy groups is unacceptable)  Why would one SCAR stabilize match ammunition and the other not?
b. The lower receiver shouldn't grenade on a bore test that is unsafe
c. The charging handle should be non reciprocating
d. The folding stock should not be clumsy and cheap feeling
e. It should use SR25 mags that are widely available
f. The trigger is one of the worst factory triggers on the market why do I have to buy a replacement trigger to fix it.

2. Keltech RFB would not eject anything we fired through it, the bolt did not budge at all after each shot we fired through it and we had to hammer the charging handle back every single shot, when we did the bore obstruction test on the RFB it went off like a grenade (both upper and lower receivers).  
Now the fun MDR scrutiny test:
a. The RFB is unsafe with a bore obstruction
b. The RFB Pushpins are impossible to get in and out without a hammer
c. You can't safely inspect the RFB chamber without getting your finger dirty up the mag well.
d. The RFB buttpad is so short that the rifle constantly slips up all your shoulder and is very uncomfortable.
e. The RFB bolt release is slow to actuate
f. The RFB magazine release is slow to operate and mags didn't drop free for us.
g. There are not picitanny rails at 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions on the RFB hand guard.
h. The RFB needs a cheekpiece because it burns and freezes my face when its hot and cold outside.

3. HK G3, this is the hardest recoiling .308 win I have ever shot, I love the G3 it is 100% reliable all the time with everything due to it being a extremely heavy steel receiver rifle which allows it to have one setting which is extremely over gassing the ejection.  They can do this because they have an extractor claw that has substantially more engagement than other rifles, that is why their over gasing doesn't rip the rims.  As a result it feeds everything but kicks the snot out of you.  It also folds brass in half when it hits the ejection port and flings it 20+ yards in front of you.  
Fun MDR Scrutiny Test:
a. The G3 is way too heavy
b. The G3 destroys brass (if you can even find it after it throws it into the next zip code)
c. The G3 has the most painful recoil of any other .308 win.  
d. You can't reach the magazine release on the G3 like an AR15 and mags don't drop free
e. The G3's charging handle is difficult to reach and requires too much force to actuate
f. The G3's controls are not ambidextrous
g. Mounting an optic to the G3 rifle is a joke because I have to mount it super high with a cheesy QD mount and I am limited on the length of scope I can mount because the charging handle is in the way so I have to turkey neck big time and lift my head high above the cheek piece to get a proper sight picture, and to fix that I have to buy a $500 adjustable stock that adds even more weight and bulk to the rifle.
h. The G3 needs a forward assist why do I have to spend $10K+ for a PSG1 with only a fixed 6x scope to get a decent DMR rifle with my HK?
I and not knocking the rifles I love HK, I have personally owned an HK 91, 93, 94, SP89, 53, PSG1, and MSG90 so I am very familiar with these rifles.


4. FN FAL, my FAL required me to adjust the gas port several times to get it to reliably function with different brands of ammunition.  Because I didn't have a tool I used screw drivers, fingers, and bullets to adjust it which was very difficult and painful at times to adjust it.  The locking lugs on the FAL is the rear of the bolt which hurts the accuracy because you have the entire length of the bolt collapsing like a spring under chamber pressure but that doesn't matter because you can't mount a scope on the rifle unless you by a new receiver cover with a rail but wait it is a slip fit floating cover not a stationary mounting platform.  It also doesn't have ambidextrous controls, not drop free magazine, not adjustable length of pull, I can add a bunch of accessories to help with that by why should I need to right?
fun MDR Scrutiny Test
a. the FAL is not compatible with great accuracy due to bolt and barrel design and bad scope mounting design
b. FAL rifle is too long
c. FAL controls are not ambi
d. FAL should be easy to adjust gas value by hand and not need a tool
e. FAL should have a forward assist
f. FAL controls are slow and not ergonomic and not ambidextrous.

5. We tested two LMT rifles against the MDR a standard LMT .308 and an LMT Match rifle both rifles had accuracy groups over 2" and the match rifle actually shot the worse between the two.  They were reliable though but very heavy.
MDR Scrutiny Test
a. LMT accuracy was very poor
b. LMT rifle is way too heavy
c. LMT prone is uncomfortable with the collapsible stock, stock should also be collapsible to reduce carry length.
d. I shouldn't have to lift my head to actuate charging handle on LMT
e. LMT bolt stop release is not in optimal location
f. LMT controls should be ambidextrous out of the box and they aren't

HK MR762; This rifle is extremely heavy, accuracy was great (due to the heavy stove pipe barrel), we had multiple issues where it failed to strip the cartridges out of the magazines, this happened once every 20 - 50 rounds.
MDR scrutiny test:
a. MR762 is the most expensive battle rifle and very widely adopted by militaries how could it have an issue stripping rounds of the magazine?
b. MR762 weight of this rifle is in sniper rifle category, way too heavy
c. MR762 should have ambi controls
d. MR762 shouldn't require you to lift your head when charging the weapon
e. MR762 should fire standard SR25 round mags, especially since their proprietary mags don't work
f. MR762 should have side folding stock to reduce carry length

IWI Tavor, Accuracy was 5"+ at 100 yards, the ergonomics of the cheekpiece are too square, and the square butted makes the length of pull too uncomfortable.  There are way to many parts and fasteners all over this rifle.  The design of the Tavor's gas system deflects gases straight out of the ejection port and into the shooters face and eyes, etc...

Now I am not saying the MDR is perfect by any means and I'm not bashing the rifles above, I am just trying to equalize the perspective that some people have had on the MDR.


If you tighten up the tolerances on the magazine catch retention bolt and the right side bore it will fix many of the magazine compatibility issues the mdr has which also. The excess clearance in that area leads to in/out play on the actual mag catch. It also is disheartening when the rifle is designed around sr25 pattern mags but it seems to be able to only reliably use 1 brand of mag. Even after I corrected that issue it still doesn't reliably function with Brownells aluminum mags. I haven't had time to inspect further but I believe it's a clearance issue at the back of the mag.

In development we ensured the MDR's functioned flawlessly with PMAGS, Lancers, and DPMS alloy mags.  We also built stops in the gun so that you can rest the rifle on the magazine on the ground (monopod the mag) and it will not cause any malfunctions.  There should not be any issues in using the other magazines.  If you call me we will discuss these issues in detail too.

Is anything being done to the trigger bar/trigger linkage? The current design is just a hook and the safety only prevents movement of the bar, not the actual trigger pack. Just looking at it the design doesn't seem safe in the event the rifle is dropped on the muzzle.

We have conducted several military drop tests on numerous MDR rifles and I can assure you that when the safety is engaged the rifle will not fire in any orientation that is it dropped in.  We will be sharing standard military testing videos of the MDR next week for those interested please stay tuned.
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ney1
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« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2018, 02:28:59 PM »

Why is the height of the rail attached to the barrel higher than upper receiver rail? There is enough of a height difference that a scope mount can not cover the barrel rail in any way. I was trying to push my scope mount as far forward as I could because I didn't buy a cantilever mount, I should have!, But I could not have even a small portion of the mount cover the barrel section because of the height differences.

The length of the MDR's upper receiver from its buttpad should be the same length (or slightly longer) as an AR10 or SR25 rifle receiver with its buttstock fully extended.  The MDR like the AR15/SR25 rifle series will require a cantilevered mount to comfortably mount the scope. 

Your question about a slight misalignment between he gas-block rail vs the receiver rail.  This is due to tolerance stack between the receiver, barrel block, barrel, and gas block.  This same tolerance stack issue exists on other rifle but the rail alignment highlights it.
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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2018, 02:30:34 PM »


Issue#2:
We also found that a small percentage of barrels had an unusual ring inside the chamber and our engineers were able to determine that rough handling by the meloniting house caused the ring (while installing them onto their coating fixture.)  


Any way to visually inspect for this problem prior to sending in for warranty work? [EDIT for clarity] What I mean to say is, if I look inside the chamber and have this problem, would it be obvious?

You would have to take it to a local gunsmith who has a bore scope to inspect it.
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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2018, 02:46:30 PM »

Guys,
I will be off-line until tonight, I have meetings all afternoon. I will try to type up a very comprehensive post with as many of your questions that I can get to tonight (likely around midnight mtn time).  That way you don't have to hang around all day waiting for me to respond.

I appreciate everyones support and feedback and I am eager to resolve concerns and issues for those who have had them.

Thanks

Nick
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CabbitOne
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« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2018, 02:54:51 PM »


Issue#2:
We also found that a small percentage of barrels had an unusual ring inside the chamber and our engineers were able to determine that rough handling by the meloniting house caused the ring (while installing them onto their coating fixture.)  


Any way to visually inspect for this problem prior to sending in for warranty work? [EDIT for clarity] What I mean to say is, if I look inside the chamber and have this problem, would it be obvious?

You would have to take it to a local gunsmith who has a bore scope to inspect it.

Was this a particular lot of barrels that were all affected? Or random ones throughout production?
If its the former, are the owners being contacted to advise them of the issue? If the latter, is warranty service looking for this whenever rifles are coming back in?


Guys,
I will be off-line until tonight, I have meetings all afternoon. I will try to type up a very comprehensive post with as many of your questions that I can get to tonight (likely around midnight mtn time).  That way you don't have to hang around all day waiting for me to respond.

I appreciate everyones support and feedback and I am eager to resolve concerns and issues for those who have had them.

Thanks

Nick


I, along with many other assumably, look forward to your responses. Thanks again for doing this.
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« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2018, 03:01:52 PM »

It's good to see Mr. Young finally came back after the s*** show that he fled from initially.

I swear I've read that list of complaints against older and more vetted designs before.   

The videos do need to come out though, some proof that they were actually tested in the rifles current configuration would be nice.
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surfdog101
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« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2018, 03:05:48 PM »

Thanks for fielding questions. As someone who is eagerly hoping to get my hands on a MDR someday, my big question is

1. Would DT by any chance be working on a MDR for restricted states like CA? Ie perhaps one with an 18" barrel or 20" barrel? Or be able to come up with any shipping solutions for us perhaps shipping us the upper and lower separately?

Thank you.
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thehun
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« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2018, 03:48:44 PM »

Can we make this thread a sticky or something so it does not get lost?



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newguy2k3
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« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2018, 05:18:24 PM »

Thanks for replying Nick. I'll call when I get a chance.

You did sort of miss my point on the comparison to other 308 autoloaders though. They reach have their quirks and plusses and minuses but they generally run whatever ammo you feed them. I'll admit I have no experience with a Fal. The Rfb I owned for a while and if our weren't for the Fal mags and noisy bleed off type gas system they use I would still own it. It was absolutely reliable and the trigger was a far sight better than the one in my mdr.

You should look around on the mag issue. The general consensus is that newest gen pmags are the only reliable mag option. People have had Lancers fall out and myself have had gen 1 pmags, kac and larues fall out. Put those same mags in my MWS and they're flawless.

The safety for me is just one of those rather safe than sorry things. Doesn't seem like it would be a big deal to make the end of the trigger bar a loop rather than a hook.
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rtp
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« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2018, 10:53:27 PM »


Issue#2:
We also found that a small percentage of barrels had an unusual ring inside the chamber and our engineers were able to determine that rough handling by the meloniting house caused the ring (while installing them onto their coating fixture.)  


Any way to visually inspect for this problem prior to sending in for warranty work? [EDIT for clarity] What I mean to say is, if I look inside the chamber and have this problem, would it be obvious?

You would have to take it to a local gunsmith who has a bore scope to inspect it.

Assuming this is the problem, can it be polished out by the customer or a smith?
(My MDR has already been back to you once).

Firstly I will address questions about some of the stuck case issues some have reported as well as provide an update on the 5.56 rifle release.

To address the stuck case issues:
The majority of the stuck case problems have been caused by the ammunition being fired through the MDR.  Initially we had difficulty replicating the stuck case issues and it was because our warranty team was running quality commercial ammunition like; Federal, American Eagle, Remington, and Hornady.
...
...
5.56 Rifle Release Update
The production polite guns have been been undergoing longevity testing for the past two months.  We have fired over 20,000 rounds through multiple rifles.  We ran into an issue specific to the 5.56 bolt carrier group that did not exist with the .308 win that took some significant engineering to overcome.  We believe the issue is 100% resolved now and next week we will be posting the expected release date (which is very soon) for the 5.56 MDR's.

I look forward to reviewing your many questions.

RE: Ammo.  My MDR rips the rims off of IMI Match 175gr ammo 'reliably,' as in I can't shoot it at all.  It does the same with PPU Match 175gr.  I can't manage to shoot more than 1 to 2 rounds before needing to rod the barrel to get the case out. One might argue over the PPU Match being 'quality' or not, but I've never heard anyone griping about PPU brass in .308 reloading circles that I can recall, while Federal brass is known for being quite soft.  Note this is with ~360 rounds down the pipe, with the original gas plug.  I have bought the 6 position, but it is indeed surprising to see IMI Match ammo reliably be unable to shoot in this rifle.

One of the original issues my MDR went back was the charging handle not locking back on the left hand side, only on the right.  This was said to be down to Loc-tite, or perhaps lack thereof. It came back and locked up solidly on the left.  Now, ~160 rounds later, it doesn't reliably lock up on the right hand side.  This is not critical to me, but it's also something I have no desire to pay shipping on (moreso after it's already been back to DT for this issue) and would like details on charging handle adjustment to be published instead. 
Thoughts?

Besides the ammo this specific MDR doesn't like, the charging handle issue, and a broken handguard, the MDR has fired a range of other ammo reliably, including some 100 rounds or so of Malaysian surplus M80 ball ammo.  The majority of the rest range from FGMM and FGMM clones in 168 and 175gr, Hornady Match, PMC, etc.  The mag release remains still not near '3 gun ready.'  Is there any change in the feel/pressure needed with the 5.56 mag adapter?  I've had one of those on order for several years, but obviously my own and others issues has me questioning, especially as one of my primary uses for the 5.56 in particular would be 3 gun matches and training classes, none of which are conducive to using a thumb to be able to reliably and quickly drop a mag.

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rtp
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« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2018, 10:56:44 PM »

Two more.   
1. Long ago, Desert Tech claimed MDRs were undergoing rigorous testing, including NATO testing of some kind and to 'stand bye, videos coming soon.' 
When will those be released?

2.  Again, long ago, there were claims of 'the group buy will be taken care of.'  This, somewhat disappointedly, amounted to 'a t-shirt.'  While I have had my MDR since December, still no t-shirt.  Did someone mis-speak on this?

Thanks for speaking up; it's overdue but welcome.
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« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2018, 11:54:15 PM »

Mr Young,

Your efforts to complete the MDR 5.56 are admirable but........
I sent a check for $2135.37 to your company on May 24, 2016. For 1.5 years I understood and agreed with you desire to make the MDR, as flawless as possible. Today, I called your customer service agent because my projected issue date was close, July 15th and I wanted to buy a couple accessories. While speaking with the agent, he informed me that my earliest ship date has been moved to, an ambiguous.......Late 4th quarter, for a total wait of ( 2.5 years) which in itself is a guess because the same reason has been used at least 4 times. That being said, I made a difficult call. I asked for my deposit, (full retail) to be refunded. At 78 years, I must be more judicious.

Best of luck and much success,

Phil
 
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« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2018, 03:22:51 AM »

- As previously stated, We ran into an issue specific to the 5.56 bolt carrier group that did not exist with the .308 win that took some significant engineering to overcome. If you are willing to share, Im curious what that BCG problem was.

- Are there any other calibers being considered beyond .300blackout? I cant hide how enthusiastic I am for the idea of a .22lr conversion for plinking and teaching children with a .22lr MDR, so as to familiarize them with bullpups, and the best of bullpups, from an early age.

- Will the MDR-C handguard be available separately, as the suppressor handguard is?

- Is the Airsoft Silverback MDR licensed with Desert Techs permission?

- Others have mentioned that a possible fix to the ripping rims issue might be increasing the area of extractor engagement. Thoughts?

- Some rifles with deeper magazine wells wont take 10rd Magpul pmags. Does the MDR in .223 accept 10rd .223/5.56 Magpul pmags?

- Can the charging handles function as forward assists?

- Will .223 also receive an optional 6-position gas valve as .308 did?


The following are not questions, perse, but notes:
- I concur that an optional low-profile gas block that forgoes the rail segment and isn't prone to burning your fingers is something that I would be very excited to purchase.
- The stiffness of the magazine releases is also something that worries me. Like others, I would also appreciate some sort of fix to that. And yes, I would happily pay for an optional upgrade to improve the magazine release stiffness if such a purchase is necessary. That is worth money to me.
- I would be very interested in an optional high-profile rear magazine release.
- You requested a link to the website of the company who is making an aftermarket aluminum MDR handguard. The company is Lucky Irishman Firearms, owned by Richard Murphy, and this would be their website: http://lifeindustries.net/index.html
Note that their MDR handguard isn't released yet, and as such isn't on their website yet. You would have to contact Mr. Murphy directly to get one early, I would presume.
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Playro
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Robin Rothenfluh, Switzerland


« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2018, 08:25:29 AM »


- You requested a link to the website of the company who is making an aftermarket aluminum MDR handguard. The company is Lucky Irishman Firearms, owned by Richard Murphy, and this would be their website: http://lifeindustries.net/index.html
Note that their MDR handguard isn't released yet, and as such isn't on their website yet. You would have to contact Mr. Murphy directly to get one early, I would presume.

Correct! Thank you for precising. Mr. Murphy told me he'll update the website soon, since he has to add other products as well.
MDR alu handguard release is planned 1st July
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 12:28:43 PM by Playro » Logged

Kind regards,
Robin Rothenfluh from Switzerland
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« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2018, 08:02:29 PM »

Guys,
Sorry you didn't hear from me last night I got home too late to get everyone responses to their questions.  I have been in meetings with our engineering, warranty, and quality teams for the past two days discussing the issues and resolutions to them and such.  I have gathered a ton of data and it will take time to compile it with the questions posed here.  If everyone will give me the weekend to get the answers written up that would be appreciated.  I will have something posted up by Sunday night.

I just want to say that I really appreciate everyones feedback and suggestions.  Keep the questions coming and I will continue to add them into the list.  I understand the frustration and hate comments too and realize sometimes we have not performed like we expected or projected to and I apologize sincerely for those times. 

I hope everyone has a great weekend and enjoys the great outdoors, and hopefully gets some range time in! 

Thanks

Nick
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« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2018, 10:37:35 PM »

No worries! Here are a couple more questions to add to your list;


Re: Re: Re: Drop Safe?;
Finally got my rifle back today and was looking at the lower. It would seem that the safety only secures the trigger/trigger bar and not the trigger group. IE the parts in the trigger pack are capable for movement independent from the trigger bar. Was a force level determined where the rifle would no longer be drop safe?

--------------------------------

Spares?;
I know we're likely quite a ways out due to your backlog of orders... However, any timeframe when we might be able to start acquiring spare parts? I'd very much like to pick up a chute, ejection mechanism panel, and BCG & recoil mechanism to experiment with to see if I can improve performance/reliability. I have some ideas I'd like to test... but not badly enough to break my only set. Also a spare .308 barrel would be nice.

-------------------------------

BPF Group Buy;
I want to stress the following should not be read with any hostility, merely wondering. Where was the breakdown between DT and BPF regarding group buy order priority and "extras"? There are seemingly quite a few here that were offended they took so long to receive their rifles or may still be waiting. Furthermore there had been promises(proposals?) of accessory and/or discounts due to delays. Heck, some are upset over not getting t-shirts.
I can't help but wonder if a lot of animosity towards the MDR Platform is spill over from the above....
(^ feel free to ignore this question as its not technical and considerably less important.)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 10:43:51 PM by CabbitOne » Logged
thehun
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« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2018, 02:29:52 PM »

Nick thank you for coming on and answering questions (I am sure you know that I am a strong critic of this platform, not because I do not like it...I love its design...it is because I want for it to work out...but at $2500+ I personally expect perfect function, fit and finish).

--- On InRange's video from March...your representatives stated that preorders will be completed by May...it is now June...can you give us an estimate of what % have been fulfilled,as I believe, many are still waiting to receive their MDR.

If they are not fulfilled, what has caused another delay for your dedicated fans? Why give an update for May fulfillment if the company can't forecast 2 months ahead?

If my memory recalls, the MDR started shipping August 2017...we are at 10 months since first delivery...not having preorders fulfilled is quite alarming and disappointing to say the least...are you guys having continued vendor issues? Are the delays caused by a supply chain break down due to the large amount of MIM parts being imported from Asia? Forecasting this should be very easy as you guys know exactly how many preorders you have or is it caused by the increased warranty requests that was not expected and you have to reallocate resources to cover such warranty work?

--- 223 MDRs will get an update soon (hopefully the last one) I hope that the little brother 223 is not going to be heading towards the same delay responses as the big brother 308...I do not think you guys can afford another PR storm on that front...this is the MDR I am mostly interested in quite honestly.

--- Warranty. Some have reported that their broken MDRs are not being serviced because DT does not have allocated parts for warranty repair and they won't be pulling parts that are needed to assemble new rifles....why do you guys not have enough warranty replacement parts on hand? Is the volume of warranty issues too great? I can't seem to think why a company would not take care of its existing and paid customers first and foremost. Second, when a new product is released, usually a certain % of spare parts are allocated...did you guys surpassed that figure on certain parts?

---- 6 position gas plug. This seems to help the MDR positively from early reports...at least much better than with the standard 3 position plug...why not make this a standard part? Your loyal fans (who preordered and stuck by you) are having to pay so that they can hope to have a better functioning rifle. Suggestion...this shouldnt be an optional part...this should be on all MDRs past, present and future..for the past...free part.

Thank you for your time.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 06:01:27 PM by thehun » Logged
newguy2k3
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« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2018, 03:13:09 PM »

Was a wider extractor with more surface area, comparable to the other 308 semi autos on the market tried? Did the geometry of a standard size extractor claw not work because of the way the mdr ejects?

Is the 223 version going to have the same smaller than normal extractor as well?

Also in regard to the 223 mdr and conversion you said the BCG had to be reengineered. The bolt or the carrier? If it's the carrier does that mean the conversion will come with a complete bcg? Or is it going to be a running change to all rifles and early 308 adopters are going to have to fork out even more money to get a 223 conversion?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 03:26:35 PM by newguy2k3 » Logged
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« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2018, 03:23:55 PM »

Was a wider extractor with more surface area, comparable to the other 308 semi autos on the market tried? Did the geometry of a standard size extractor claw not work because of the way the mdr ejects?

Is the 223 version going to have the same smaller than normal extractor as well?

The extractor is clearly limited due to the sideways push of the scissor.  Having more of a crescent coverage would lead to snags on the rim as it was pushed over. Kind of a limitation of the system.  I would guess  the .223 will be the same scenario but the rim thickness and dimensions are different, so it should hold up better.
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« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2018, 03:32:11 PM »

Was a wider extractor with more surface area, comparable to the other 308 semi autos on the market tried? Did the geometry of a standard size extractor claw not work because of the way the mdr ejects?

Is the 223 version going to have the same smaller than normal extractor as well?

The extractor is clearly limited due to the sideways push of the scissor.  Having more of a crescent coverage would lead to snags on the rim as it was pushed over. Kind of a limitation of the system.  I would guess  the .223 will be the same scenario but the rim thickness and dimensions are different, so it should hold up better.


I'd like to think with a wider extractor the tension could be reduced a bit so that it could flex enough when the scissor mechanism pushed the case out.
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