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Author Topic: Zeroing the ACSS reticle on an X95  (Read 1315 times)
Iamjocanadian
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« on: June 11, 2018, 11:36:41 PM »

Some help and understanding of ballistics is needed. I just ordered the Primary Arms 1-6x gen 3 together with an ADM recon High mount (center @ 1.9in above rail) and am curious as to how I should be zeroing the thing. From what I recall, 100yd zero on a Tavor isn't the same as an AR15 due to height over bore.
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cciman
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2018, 03:41:48 PM »

Zeroing process is the same no matter what gun is used, choose your most likely to engage range, be it 100 or 200 yards.  What purpose are you zeroing for?

Height over bore will only be relevant at short (pistol) distances (say 7-25 yards)

You can use ballistics calculators (free online), and input the sight height, and chosen zero distance, and can then see the bullet path at zero +/- at various distances.  You will always have an arc, like throwing rocks.

With a 4 in sight over bore, you can zero for 100 at 25 yards with point of impact 2.5" below point of aim and be pretty close to battle zero for minute of man.  At that distance, I cheat and use a laser bore sighter and mark 2 targets with one 2.5" above the other, no ammo, or range needed.

I've been to many schools and 100 yard zeroes will still be tactically effective at 200, 300 yards without playing with holdovers.
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cciman
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2018, 03:48:28 PM »

Here's some I used:

http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/

https://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics_calculator/
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cm8404
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2018, 05:25:27 PM »

Attached are some Tavor zero target with ballistics.  Hope this helps.

* Tavor Zeros (with Minor Grid Lines).pdf (96.39 KB - downloaded 94 times.)
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cciman
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2018, 10:23:42 AM »


Be aware that this is constantly and variably affected by what sights/risers you use, ammo choices, barrel temps, shooting platform and technique, eyesight, lighting, ambient conditions (wind).

You can easily be chasing your tail on zeros, and make it more difficult than it has to be.  Be realistic on expectations, and goals.
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cm8404
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2018, 02:20:31 PM »

My understanding is the the BUIS are zeroed at the factory at 50yds.  In this case co-witnessing should get you pretty close. 
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Rastoff
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2018, 09:46:45 PM »

In this particular case, you want to use a 100 yard zero. The reason is the ACSS reticle. If you want to get all the advantages of that reticle, you need to zero it at 100 yards.

However, you're right to note that the height over bore doesn't match the AR which is what the ACSS was made for. I have an ACOG on my X95. At 400 yards the BDC mark on my reticle was off and I had to aim at the shoulder level of a standard silhouette to hit the center. That's the nature of height over bore, it changes the trajectory.
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boscoman
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2018, 07:36:27 AM »

My understanding is the the BUIS are zeroed at the factory at 50yds.  In this case co-witnessing should get you pretty close. 

They are done at 100 yards.
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cm8404
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2018, 07:47:15 AM »

Thanks for the correction.   Always better to get accurate info. 
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SteveD
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2018, 11:17:20 PM »

Since the Tavor/x95 has an atrociously height over bore length, I found that the 33 yard zero that should get a hit at 300 yards was a little too high in my taste, trajectory wise, at it's highest point (calculator told me more than 6" high, that I remember). If you're gonna use the ACSS reticle with BDC, yes go with their zero of 100 yards. Personally, I like to zero it 2-3" high at 100 yards, and still use the BDC exactly where it is on my old ACSS scope.
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Rastoff
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« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2018, 09:33:53 PM »

My understanding is the the BUIS are zeroed at the factory at 50yds.  In this case co-witnessing should get you pretty close.  

They are done at 100 yards.
Thanks for the correction.   Always better to get accurate info.  
Well, it would be good if it were accurate. Is it?

It's an excellent question and I don't think we've ever seen the right answer. In fact, I would suspect that IWI wouldn't use yards at all. They are Israeli after all. Also, the manual in paragraph 10.5 says to zero at 25 meters (27.34 yards). So, it would be reasonable to suspect that IWI does a bore-sight zero at 25 meters. I don't think any company does actual zeroing of their guns. That would take a lot of effort and ammo. No, I suspect they would just use a laser bore-sighting tool and set them that way or just set them all to the center of the sight adjustment range.

When I talked to the IWI people at Shot Show in 2017, they recommended 50 meters, but followed with picking the distance that was correct for how you intend to use the gun.

I use 100 yards. There are many reasons for this, but the most important thing for me is, it works for how I use the gun. I need to do a little more research to figure out the BDC reticle perfectly. I would never zero my X95 at 25 meters though. This puts the trajectory 15" high at 300 yards. That's unusable and I don't know why they suggest it.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 09:36:34 PM by Rastoff » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2018, 09:42:01 PM »

One more thing, the adjustment on the back up iron sights is very coarse. According to the book it's 1.4cm at 25 meters. This means it will be 5.6cm at 100 meters. So, at 100 yards it moves about 2 1/4" per click. The point here is, the BUIS are not for precision shooting. They're just that, back up for when your primary optic fails. You could use them to set your optic, but it would only be good to get you on about a 12"x12" piece of paper.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2018, 07:05:29 AM »

Nobody answered his question directly lol.

Here bro..  With m193 type ammo..



Zero at 100 yards with your tavor with acss reticle you will be
-200 yard hash mark 1.5" high
-300 yard hash mark 3" high
-400 yard hash mark 3.5" high
-500 yard hash mark 6" high



Zero at 100

Here's zeros from 100 yards with m193 and a 4" sight over bore.  
Tavor

Range   Velocity   Energy   Trajectory   Come Up (MOA)   Come Up (MILS)   Wind Drift   Wind Drift (MOA)   Wind Drift (MILS)
0   3000   1099.0   -4.0   0.0   0.0   0   0   0
50   2794   953.0   -1.4   2.7   0.8   0   0   0
100   2597   824.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0   0   0
150   2409   709.0   0.1   -0.1   0.0   0   0   0
200   2228   606.0   -1.2   0.6   0.2   0   0   0
250   2056   516.0   -4.3   1.6   0.5   0   0   0
300   1891   437.0   -9.5   3.0   0.9   0   0   0
350   1735   368.0   -17.1   4.7   1.4   0   0   0
400   1590   309.0   -27.6   6.6   1.9   0   0   0
450   1455   259.0   -41.6   8.8   2.6   0   0   0
500   1334   217.0   -59.6   11.4   3.3   0   0   0


AR15 ( what the reticle is designed for ) with a 2.5 sight over bore the reticle was designed for.

Range   Velocity   Energy   Trajectory   Come Up (MOA)   Come Up (MILS)   Wind Drift   Wind Drift (MOA)   Wind Drift (MILS)
0   3000   1099.0   -2.5   0.0   0.0   0   0   0
50   2794   953.0   -0.7   1.3   0.4   0   0   0
100   2597   824.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0   0   0
150   2409   709.0   -0.6   0.4   0.1   0   0   0
200   2228   606.0   -2.7   1.3   0.4   0   0   0
250   2056   516.0   -6.6   2.5   0.7   0   0   0
300   1891   437.0   -12.5   4.0   1.2   0   0   0
350   1735   368.0   -20.9   5.7   1.7   0   0   0
400   1590   309.0   -32.1   7.7   2.2   0   0   0
450   1455   259.0   -46.8   9.9   2.9   0   0   0
500   1334   217.0   -65.6   12.5   3.6   0   0   0



Cross reference those to find your exact answers.
Being only 1-3" higher at the 200 and 300 hash marks, I think you won't have any issues using that scope with your tavor.
You could zero it at about 125 and the hash marks might be a little more precise.  Cross reference the data to find your own answers with the ammo you will be using.  I use the Hornady ballistic calculation.

Personally, at those distances being 1-3" high won't be as much of a variable as wind and ammo quality.

As always internet calculation is only a base guide, with the nature of ballistics in general, you will need to go shoot your gun with your preference ammo and find out.

I get roughly 1.5-2.5" groups with my Tavor.  The best groups are with my handloads, factory ammo tends to throw more flyers, but my Tavor loves wolf gold and shoots about 2moa with it.

Hope you enjoy your bullpup bro, it's an awesome rifle.  Although it has a bit of a learning curve because the trigger actually breaks after the wall.

Let us know your results.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 07:34:09 AM by RabbitSlayer » Logged

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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2018, 07:13:39 AM »

Double post.
Mod please delete.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 07:30:39 AM by RabbitSlayer » Logged

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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2018, 07:40:17 AM »

Zeroing process is the same no matter what gun is used,

Height over bore will only be relevant at short (pistol) distances (say 7-25 yards)


No offense intended sir, but what you said is incorrect. 
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