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| |-+  Desert Tech MDR (Moderator: Heathsrow)
| | |-+  New Gas Valve available for purchase
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Author Topic: New Gas Valve available for purchase  (Read 11069 times)
JesseJames38
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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2018, 01:08:05 AM »

I am not sure how to really express my dislike at this little stunt. Of the months after months of delays being told that everything is working fine and waiting on the ejection chutes.  And finally having the rifle released to the public. It seems 3/4ths of the riles on this sight along having the same issue with ejection and destroying rims off of casings. People sending there firearms back in on there Dime just for DT to send them right back with the same issues.

Hell I remember when some one in the bullpup forums asked Desert tech how many rifles will be going back to DT for issues. And low and behold Nick Young him self responded saying 0,   because that is why we took so long to release it is to insure there will be no issues. Hell, they even issued a update on there website that the people who pre ordered would be taken care of. No one should have to buy a 50 dollar part to gamble to make a 2500 dollar rifle work.   People shouldn't have to be paying shipping to them due to a defective rifle coming off the assembly line and not work. At this point in time my rifle works with the current gas plug.  But there is no way in hell I am going to spend 50 dollars for a gas plug from the original manufacturer to make my 2500 dollar firearm work that I ordered from them.

Sure a lot of people give Kel tec a hard time about quality of a firearm, and Kel tec fixes it no questions asked.  They brake a firing pin, the company sends them 2 of them at no charge.  Other people have a gas problem,  Kel tec send them a new updated gas plug and they get to keep the old one. And these are suppose to be low quality  sub 1500 dollar firearms.

Now you have Desert Tech, which likes to look at them self as a high quality firearms mfg.   Sends out a product that seems to be working about 3/4ths the time.  And they want to charge the customer to fix the rifle with a new gas plug. Not only that, the rifle hasn't even been released for a full year yet.

For a company that talks about quality,  I have to say I am very disappointed in the outcome.  In fact here is a little quote from Nick him self from the 2017 update "3. Price Increase: The engineering and refinement that went into the forward ejection mechanism and other features of the MDR are nothing less than fantastic; it is super reliable, accurate, and durable. Unfortunately, more features and more innovation just costs more to produce than we initially expected which has forced us to increase the price on the MDR.
 As of January 4, 2017 the new pricing is:
 d. MDR 7.62 is $2,525
 e. MDR 5.56 is $2,275"

From the majority of the owners here, they seem to be missing that super reliable, and durable part of the rifle along with "fantastic"

As for shelling out 50 bucks on a 2500 dollar rifle, to the original manufacture no less to have it run reliably. They can take and kiss my...ÖÖÖÖ.


That's my thoughts

Jesse.



 
 

« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 01:09:56 AM by JesseJames38 » Logged
Whoops
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« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2018, 02:41:31 AM »

All you folks who used to get pissed at me for calling out s***ty business practices with DT lol

I seriously hope the MDR is eventually gotten right, but I'm gonna guess that the s***ty attitude of Nick Young and the FREQUENT lies that DT has been caught in are only signs of how this rifle is going to be handled, forever.
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jreffner
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« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2018, 06:50:28 AM »

Seriously?!?!  The new gas valve that hopefully works better is going to be a PAID upgrade?!?!?!

Is this even the case for the .223 orders that don't ship until October?

I wouldn't call that an upgrade, I'd call it a fix and should clearly be free.

All of these negative stories are really starting to wear me down.  Perhaps it is good that my MDR isn't set to ship until mid October.  Perhaps that will be enough time for a Tavor 7 to be released in .223.  If that happens, well... I'm going to give it some serious thought and maybe cancel my MDR order.

This is sad.  Could anyone please confirm that even the .223 MDR buyers will have to pay for the new valve?  Thanks!
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thehun
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« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2018, 08:45:36 AM »

All you folks who used to get pissed at me for calling out s***ty business practices with DT lol

I seriously hope the MDR is eventually gotten right, but I'm gonna guess that the s***ty attitude of Nick Young and the FREQUENT lies that DT has been caught in are only signs of how this rifle is going to be handled, forever.

I am with you. People gave me crap about my call outs too...but almost all the things I've predicted have been coming true...including this...I told you guys this wasn't going to be free. They have to make up for the lost revenue from people cancelling orders and the warranty costs...its greedy business 1:1.

I am just glad I made the switch to the LMT MWS platform and will be investing in the Tavor 7 in the future instead of trying to go for a MDR (believe it or not...I was very close when I sold/traded my STI 2011 gun)...when you nickel and dime your loyal followers who put up their hard earned money like this for 4 YEARS...just further proves how DT as a company is truly ran within...I feel sorry for all the workers who probably want to do the right thing...but can't.

DT...you have a broken system...you charge a premium for the MDR...do the right thing...provide the $50 gas plug to your loyalist at no charge and install this thing into all the new rifles coming out...this gas plug will help with the issues...but I still think you have chamber problems and improper tolerance stacking after fouling occurs in the system, so to ask people to keep gambling with their hard earned money just to see if this fix will cure the MDR is laughable...what will be next...a $250 dollar upgrade to the ejection chute? $99 charge to hone the chamber for reliable extraction? $25 dollar upgrade to keep pins from breaking $499 upgrade for an upgrade stripped polymer receiver....

Honestly, if DT doesn't ship new rifles with this gas plug and is an available upgrade forever...well...they can just kiss any future business from me.

Coldboremiracle...you listening....you guys done made your loyalist mad now...that is bad bad bad bad for your brand...

« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 08:53:20 AM by thehun » Logged
thehun
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« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2018, 08:50:35 AM »

Seriously?!?!  The new gas valve that hopefully works better is going to be a PAID upgrade?!?!?!

Is this even the case for the .223 orders that don't ship until October?

I wouldn't call that an upgrade, I'd call it a fix and should clearly be free.

All of these negative stories are really starting to wear me down.  Perhaps it is good that my MDR isn't set to ship until mid October.  Perhaps that will be enough time for a Tavor 7 to be released in .223.  If that happens, well... I'm going to give it some serious thought and maybe cancel my MDR order.

This is sad.  Could anyone please confirm that even the .223 MDR buyers will have to pay for the new valve?  Thanks!

.223 MDR is vaporware brother....we know 0 facts about it...only thing we have is some videos of prototypes shooting and what info the CEO released via updates....we do not know anything about its gas settings or port sizes...the only thing I can tell you...from the videos provided...the gas operation is much much smoother than the 308 MDR...so there is hope...but after this move...I don't think I will invest into any MDR...backstabbing loyal followers is a big no no for me...

At this point...I'd tell you to cancel your preorder...and get a RDB...it has a very good adjustable gas system, grittles trigger...and awesome warranty. The design is stupid simple...
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 08:56:04 AM by thehun » Logged
mityno1
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« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2018, 09:02:38 AM »


Perhaps that will be enough time for a Tavor 7 to be released in .223. 

Could anyone please confirm that even the .223 MDR buyers will have to pay for the new valve? 
!

I'm really not understanding what you mean by "T7 released in .223?"

The MDR will run well in 5.56.

I know this because 5.56 is:

1/2 the power of .308
72.4% the diameter of .308
~ 1/3 the projectile weight of .308
~ 4 times less recoil of .308

So while the power of 5.56 is a fraction of the power of 3.08 no matter what terms you are comparing, the strength of 5.56 shell casings is probably greater and requires MORE force to tear off the rim than .308 casings because the smaller 5.56 diameter makes the rim inherently STRONGER.

What I am saying that it is several orders of magnitude harder to design a reliable .308 semi-auto than it is to design a 5.56 version. Otherwise, there would have been many .308 Bullpup variants over the years.

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Re: MDR Group Buy - official BPF list!
ę Reply #360 on: January 04, 2015, 05:29:50 AM Ľ
(Still waiting patiently on an FDE...)
thehun
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« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2018, 09:22:51 AM »

Just because the cartridge is weaker than the 308...does not mean the MDR will run well in 223...it has a better chance...yes...
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mityno1
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« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2018, 09:31:00 AM »

Just because the cartridge is weaker than the 308...does not mean the MDR will run well in 223...it has a better chance...yes...

Can we agree that the chance is Far Greater?

Perhaps at least 10 times greater?




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Re: MDR Group Buy - official BPF list!
ę Reply #360 on: January 04, 2015, 05:29:50 AM Ľ
(Still waiting patiently on an FDE...)
Zeiram3f
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« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2018, 09:50:39 AM »

Unfortunately we cannot agree on this. Just because it may properly extract, does not mean that it will properly eject. Regardless, I believe this system requires the same amount of force to cycle the bolt, unless conversion kits change out the springs and other compressing hardware. If they do not, then 5.56 is more likely to tear than 7.62.

Anyhow you have more stuck cases in chutes than you have torn rims. Yes, this is a simpler fix in the field but it shouldnít be required by a good 20-40% of the MDR owners out there.

Beyond that you have magazine release issues still, reported in most MDRs. I would guess up to 60-70% have had stiff magazine release issues up to this point in time.
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coldboremiracle
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« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2018, 10:04:52 AM »

Coldboremiracle...you listening...

If you think I have any say in these things, you'd be mistaken.
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GoShort
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« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2018, 10:50:18 AM »

I could be wrong but I would think if they put out a product that has issues from the factory and then try to sell parts to resolve the issue that would be bad for them. It make me think class action suit. while I would prefer to not get lawyer involved or hurt the company I (and probably all of us) do want our rifles when  receive to work flawlessly. I am willing to deal with delays and them sending me parts to swap and even sending them my rifle once to swap major parts. as long as in the end i get the rifle with the expected features working reliable and accurately.

If I get mine in July as they are estimate I will pass along my results and any "fixes" I see they have put in place.
I have a few tools and may be able to measure the head space and the like.

I would love to see them move the gas block forward the needed amount to fix pressure with the 6 setting kit in it. extend the pic. rail on the block backwards to fill the gap and notch the hand guard to allow for adjusting the settings and the move forward. maybe even swap in the over molded hand guard instead for our troubles

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thehun
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« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2018, 10:58:05 AM »

Coldboremiracle...you listening...

If you think I have any say in these things, you'd be mistaken.

I know you donít (mostly because itís frowned upon to suggest anything to the CEO) but you are our connection to DT. If DT cares, they will listen to the loyal uproar on this...if leadership does not listen...it will show that all they care about is money and in this industry that is bad bad bad. Hope DT is more mature than that and provide updates to their broken system free of charge to existing and upcoming customers.
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Blackandwhiteknight
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« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2018, 12:08:40 PM »


The MDR will run well in 5.56.

I know this because 5.56 is:

1/2 the power of .308
72.4% the diameter of .308
~ 1/3 the projectile weight of .308
~ 4 times less recoil of .308

So while the power of 5.56 is a fraction of the power of 3.08 no matter what terms you are comparing, the strength of 5.56 shell casings is probably greater and requires MORE force to tear off the rim than .308 casings because the smaller 5.56 diameter makes the rim inherently STRONGER.

What I am saying that it is several orders of magnitude harder to design a reliable .308 semi-auto than it is to design a 5.56 version. Otherwise, there would have been many .308 Bullpup variants over the years.



This!
  Let's face it the MDR is a moderate, to poor .308.  But as a .223 this gun is going to be way over built. Heavy, but way stronger than it needs to be.  Everything from the bolt carrier weight, to the recoil spring is beefed up to handle the .308 and is way more than you need for .223.  The gas system cycle is much different to due to the powder burn rate in .223 cases.  You can get away with a much shorter gas system in .223.  You should be able to crank a .223 MDR up to adverse and watch it spit brass like an M4 with a carbine gas system.
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Ditcher
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« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2018, 12:55:31 PM »

Well we know management doesn't listen to employees.  based off the reviews on glassdoor from ex employees it is clear what we are dealing with at DT.
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thehun
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« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2018, 01:05:54 PM »


The MDR will run well in 5.56.

I know this because 5.56 is:

1/2 the power of .308
72.4% the diameter of .308
~ 1/3 the projectile weight of .308
~ 4 times less recoil of .308

So while the power of 5.56 is a fraction of the power of 3.08 no matter what terms you are comparing, the strength of 5.56 shell casings is probably greater and requires MORE force to tear off the rim than .308 casings because the smaller 5.56 diameter makes the rim inherently STRONGER.

What I am saying that it is several orders of magnitude harder to design a reliable .308 semi-auto than it is to design a 5.56 version. Otherwise, there would have been many .308 Bullpup variants over the years.



This!
  Let's face it the MDR is a moderate, to poor .308.  But as a .223 this gun is going to be way over built. Heavy, but way stronger than it needs to be.  Everything from the bolt carrier weight, to the recoil spring is beefed up to handle the .308 and is way more than you need for .223.  The gas system cycle is much different to due to the powder burn rate in .223 cases.  You can get away with a much shorter gas system in .223.  You should be able to crank a .223 MDR up to adverse and watch it spit brass like an M4 with a carbine gas system.

In theory you are 100% correct...however knowing the track record with DT on the MDR...it will get screwed up somehow...I hope I am wrong...
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hillbillyjim
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« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2018, 01:06:41 PM »

All you folks who used to get pissed at me for calling out s***ty business practices with DT lol

I seriously hope the MDR is eventually gotten right, but I'm gonna guess that the s***ty attitude of Nick Young and the FREQUENT lies that DT has been caught in are only signs of how this rifle is going to be handled, forever.

I am with you. People gave me crap about my call outs too...but almost all the things I've predicted have been coming true...including this...I told you guys this wasn't going to be free. They have to make up for the lost revenue from people cancelling orders and the warranty costs...its greedy business 1:1.

I am just glad I made the switch to the LMT MWS platform and will be investing in the Tavor 7 in the future instead of trying to go for a MDR (believe it or not...I was very close when I sold/traded my STI 2011 gun)...when you nickel and dime your loyal followers who put up their hard earned money like this for 4 YEARS...just further proves how DT as a company is truly ran within...I feel sorry for all the workers who probably want to do the right thing...but can't.

DT...you have a broken system...you charge a premium for the MDR...do the right thing...provide the $50 gas plug to your loyalist at no charge and install this thing into all the new rifles coming out...this gas plug will help with the issues...but I still think you have chamber problems and improper tolerance stacking after fouling occurs in the system, so to ask people to keep gambling with their hard earned money just to see if this fix will cure the MDR is laughable...what will be next...a $250 dollar upgrade to the ejection chute? $99 charge to hone the chamber for reliable extraction? $25 dollar upgrade to keep pins from breaking $499 upgrade for an upgrade stripped polymer receiver....

Honestly, if DT doesn't ship new rifles with this gas plug and is an available upgrade forever...well...they can just kiss any future business from me.

Coldboremiracle...you listening....you guys done made your loyalist mad now...that is bad bad bad bad for your brand...



Looks like I backed out of the group buy at the right time.  I had so much high hopes for this and the joy when it finally started shipping Iíve been glued to my email waiting for my turn.  All these issues for a $2000 + firearm is bull crap.  Thatís Kel Tec MO.  I expected better from a company that produces one of the best precision bolt action rifles.  Canít wait until Tavor 7 is released.  I will probably wait six months after the release before getting one make sure it isnít a fail on the mdr level
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rtp
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« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2018, 02:33:09 PM »

I had so much high hopes for this and the joy when it finally started shipping Iíve been glued to my email waiting for my turn.  All these issues for a $2000 + firearm is bull crap.  Thatís Kel Tec MO.  I expected better from a company that produces one of the best precision bolt action rifles.  Canít wait until Tavor 7 is released.  I will probably wait six months after the release before getting one make sure it isnít a fail on the mdr level
Tomorrows Weapons, Today
Tomorrows Weapons, Tomorrow
Tomorrows Weapons, 2 More Weeks
Tomorrows Weapons, Sometime
Todays Weapons, Delayed
Got it:
DT - Almost as good as a Kel-Tec, but more expensive and with lesser support
 Angry
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Glorfindel
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« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2018, 04:30:50 PM »

I had so much high hopes for this and the joy when it finally started shipping Iíve been glued to my email waiting for my turn.  All these issues for a $2000 + firearm is bull crap.  Thatís Kel Tec MO.  I expected better from a company that produces one of the best precision bolt action rifles.  Canít wait until Tavor 7 is released.  I will probably wait six months after the release before getting one make sure it isnít a fail on the mdr level
Tomorrows Weapons, Today
Tomorrows Weapons, Tomorrow
Tomorrows Weapons, 2 More Weeks
Tomorrows Weapons, Sometime
Todays Weapons, Delayed
Got it:
DT - Almost as good as a Kel-Tec, but more expensive and with lesser support
 Angry

I wish I could laugh at that, because it is funny, but I can't muster it up.

I spent a hefty chunk of change to send mine back to DT, and was told there's nothing wrong with it at first. A few days later I was told that there might've been a bit of debris lodged under the extractor and that must be what caused the ripped rim. I never shot it again after that, just sold it. Wish I wouldn't have spent the money to send it in, but I was hoping DT would say "Oh yeah, that one was put together wrong, it should be good to go now."

Probably gonna go with a POF Revolution 12.5" pistol to satisfy my OAL desires. As a bonus, it'll also be almost 2 pounds lighter. Perhaps SBR it at some point so I can put a proper rifle stock on.
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thehun
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« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2018, 04:52:13 PM »

Revolution is a sweet piece of kit.
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mityno1
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« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2018, 05:30:07 PM »


The MDR will run well in 5.56.

I know this because 5.56 is:

1/2 the power of .308
72.4% the diameter of .308
~ 1/3 the projectile weight of .308
~ 4 times less recoil of .308

So while the power of 5.56 is a fraction of the power of 3.08 no matter what terms you are comparing, the strength of 5.56 shell casings is probably greater and requires MORE force to tear off the rim than .308 casings because the smaller 5.56 diameter makes the rim inherently STRONGER.

What I am saying that it is several orders of magnitude harder to design a reliable .308 semi-auto than it is to design a 5.56 version. Otherwise, there would have been many .308 Bullpup variants over the years.



This!
  Let's face it the MDR is a moderate, to poor .308.  But as a .223 this gun is going to be way over built. Heavy, but way stronger than it needs to be.  Everything from the bolt carrier weight, to the recoil spring is beefed up to handle the .308 and is way more than you need for .223.  The gas system cycle is much different to due to the powder burn rate in .223 cases.  You can get away with a much shorter gas system in .223.  You should be able to crank a .223 MDR up to adverse and watch it spit brass like an M4 with a carbine gas system.

Actually, I'm thinking the MDR still has a lot of promise for .300Blk and 7.62x39 despite its teething pains in .308.

DT must survive long enough to make those MDR calibers available and the demand for them will probably not be anywhere the demand would be for a modular .308 that equaled or exceeded the T7.

I could provide consulting services to DT to better manage their PR to get them through this troubled water but I doubt they would listen, much less pay my fee.
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Re: MDR Group Buy - official BPF list!
ę Reply #360 on: January 04, 2015, 05:29:50 AM Ľ
(Still waiting patiently on an FDE...)
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