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| | |-+  I waited 4.5 years for THIS?
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Author Topic: I waited 4.5 years for THIS?  (Read 5338 times)
newguy2k3
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« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2018, 10:11:25 PM »

See. If DT marketed the MDR as a match grade rifle I would agree 100% with you.

But it wasnít. It was marketed, designed and told thatís it is a battle rifle first and foremost. Therefore, it should handle fast mag dumbs over and over again.

Having a semi auto that needs to be babied and only fed match ammo is just useless. Get a bolt gun, heck get a DT bolt gun.

I could see that DT sent their match ammo to be blueprinted for the chamber...

This. It has been marketed as a battle rifle. That was their excuse for the crappy trigger and lighter profile barrel. A battle rifle should eat damn near anything that will chamber. My Lmt does. My Rfb did. My Armalites did.
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thehun
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« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2018, 10:38:27 PM »

My LMT MWS does the same.

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dmitry
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« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2018, 11:44:00 PM »

It's seemed predictable since about 2 years ago, that the gun would have some problems. Hence the reason it kept getting delayed over and over.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2018, 12:02:12 AM »

I'm still supportive and enthusiastic about the product, but I do have questions that are nagging at me.  

are they nagging at you because you still haven't shot your two rifles?  it's all that matters isn't it?

if you have shot'em...i must've missed your post assuming you'd provide insight like many have done here.  

They're nagging at me because they're questions I'd like answers to...as I stated in my post.  Sorry, but I have a life that requires most of my time and shooting is a luxury that there just isn't time for at the moment.  Maybe in the near future, but nothing is planned at the moment.
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Kurt
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« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2018, 01:53:18 AM »

1A.  Is the design sound?  From the evidence that there are rifles that are running as advertised, the answer would be yes, it is.  This only looks at the design.

1B.  If the design is sound, then why are some rifles running better than others, especially given that they come off computer driven machines and the parts aren't manually produced? 
My first guess is tolerance stacking. Put together parts at the outer limits of the specified tolerances and the finished product can end up out of spec. If that is the case, it means that they did a sloppy job on the tolerance analysis, if they even did one. That would mean that the design isn't sound; some people happened to get rifles made from just the right parts to not have issues.
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EWTHeckman
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« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2018, 09:41:52 AM »

See. If DT marketed the MDR as a match grade rifle I would agree 100% with you.

But it wasnít. It was marketed, designed and told thatís it is a battle rifle first and foremost. Therefore, it should handle fast mag dumbs over and over again.

Having a semi auto that needs to be babied and only fed match ammo is just useless. Get a bolt gun, heck get a DT bolt gun.

I could see that DT sent their match ammo to be blueprinted for the chamber...

This. It has been marketed as a battle rifle.

I fully expected there to be some problems, maybe a rifle here and there that experienced issues. That's just a simple fact of life.

But I have to agree that for a usage where "it just runs" is probably the top priority, the sheer volume of failures is intensely discouraging. I really hope DT gets this straightened out or the MDR, and possibly even DT itself, won't stick around for long.
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mityno1
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« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2018, 12:50:34 PM »

I fully expected there to be some problems, maybe a rifle here and there that experienced issues. That's just a simple fact of life.

But I have to agree that for a usage where "it just runs" is probably the top priority, the sheer volume of failures is intensely discouraging. I really hope DT gets this straightened out or the MDR, and possibly even DT itself, won't stick around for long.

If DT survives I have no doubt the MDR will evolve into a reliable world beater battle rifle with even more innovative features we have not even dreamed of yet.

The only question will be how long will that take?

I have only waited some 3.5 years.

The dish towel for me is the apparent lack of managing the deliveries in first come first serve. This would not be an issue for me if only weeks or a few short months separated the order dates from the delivery dates.

The thing that angers me the most is how I perceive Sgt-P has been treated by DT. I know of no one who has done more and worked harder to unite the Bullpup community. I would never have ordered an MDR had it not been for this site he has provided free for the world to use and my trust in his ability to make Group Buys work.

I expected DT would treat Jon the way I would have and prioritize as well as incentivize his GB. Instead, I believe he was totally taken for granted by DT and not appreciated or recognized as a leader in the BP community.

I don't owe DT anything, but I owe Jon my appreciation and loyalty for all he has done and continues to do for the Bullpup community. Because of this, I won't buy a Bullpup from anyone other than Jon. The real question for me now is whether my first Bullpup will be an MDR?
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Re: MDR Group Buy - official BPF list!
ę Reply #360 on: January 04, 2015, 05:29:50 AM Ľ
(Still waiting patiently on an FDE...)
thehun
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« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2018, 12:51:56 PM »

Yup. Agreed...the first couple of batches...I expected some issues...but the same issues came on happening...its a design flaw at this point.

It has to be reliable...especially for the $$$.

I 100% doubt that the MDR would make it 300rds in a  continuous full auto fire regiment or better yet...just a 300rd semi auto dump at once.

At this point a SW MP15 can be trusted over the MDR in a defense situation...and that is sad.

I bet the MDR couldn't even come close matching the Sport's full auto melt down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe4GvVYNQbc or even a Cheap Century C308 1000rd semi auto dump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCBNPLBWeJ4



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Whoops
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« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2018, 01:50:04 AM »

Lol, so while I'm gonna keep.my order for my MDR in, I'm not gonna lie, I'm not too optimistic about it. I still plan on doing a comprehensive write up, but I want to at least be able to get data for.my write up lol

I'm kinda stoked to see the folks who were here saying that Kel-Tec wasn't s*** compared to DT having to eat their words on one hand, on the other, I want my MDR to be f***in' awesome. I am torn between wanting to laugh at folks being DT elitists and wanting my rifle to be a good rifle.
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thehun
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« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2018, 09:12:55 AM »

I hope by the time you get your rifle...maybe some of the tolerances will be more loose and your gun will fire without hiccups.

I bet DT will release the adjustable gas block and some other upgrades that people will flock over to help band aid the guns and help DT recoup warranty expenses...from my view...I think its a combination of wrong port sizes, tight chamber and overall to0 tight tolerances to handle any fouling properly.

What sucks...at minimum...you have to spend about $100-$125 dollars in quality M80 ball to just find out if your MDR needs to be sent in for warranty or not...then you spend another $100 or so just to find out if it does work or not once received from DT's warranty service.

You would think that during torture testing (if any happened)...all these issues were identified...if not...it begs to question why not...if they did see the problems...why was the green light given? I just find it really hard to believe that DT never experienced these problems on their production gun testing.

Has anyone done a headspace check?
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Sdevante
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« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2018, 11:18:06 AM »

Okay at the risk of looking like an idiot, here goes:

I watched the new DT video about the new gas regulator and explaining the gas system and realized that I was not firing on Adverse at all....the entire time I was firing on Normal.

So now my question - if I am ripping rims off of cases on Normal, wouldn't Adverse really be causing some problems? Cannot test out until this weekend, and given how work is going, maybe not until next weekend.
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thehun
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« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2018, 11:40:39 AM »

Well...yes...adverse = harsh, more gas...its pretty much an unregulated gas port...wide open.

However since DT is calling owners to run the MDR in Adverse mode for the first 200rds...I would say do it...even if its causing you more problems...once 200rds are fired...put it into normal mode...if you are still having problems...you have a defective gun at that point....and needs to be sent back for service.

Once received back from DT you'll need to spend another $100+ dollars or so in ammo to verify whether or not your problems are solved...then at the back of your mind...you will always doubt its reliability...its a great process #sarcasm.
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rtp
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« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2018, 12:06:24 PM »

Seems almost laughable now, right (part in bold, aside from the whole message).  Is anyone even seeing 1K rounds w/out ripping the rims off cases or other issues?

Quote
September 2, 2016
Dear Valued Customers,
Many of you have asked how well the MDR functions, you can see for yourself. The gun runs awesome and has been for a long time now. We have been validating the first batches of production parts for the past three months. Understand that production parts are not the same as the prototype parts and we must ensure everything is properly toleranced, in specification, and maintains the same strength and durability as the prototyped predecessors. This means we shoot the production guns until we break something; then re-engineer the problem part, remake, and start shooting again. We have hit several unexpected snags along the way but to date we have successfully proofed the MDRís to approx. 4000 rounds with no part failures or malfunctions. We expect our current engineering improvements to greatly increase the round count. Unfortunately, each time a part fails then it takes 7 to 21 days to do another cycle depending on the part. We are completing what we hope is the final cycle at the end of next week. As of today it is not possible to meet the 3rd quarter shipping date that we committed to. The earliest possible time that production guns could hit the streets is November/December timeline. I apologize for the additional delay but know that we are working as quickly and diligently as possible to make the MDRís absolutely fantastic. From this point forward I will post an update on the first day of every month until MDRís are shipping to keep you our valued customers in the loop.
Sincerely
Nicholas Young
CEO, Desert Tech LLC
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JesseJames38
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« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2018, 12:42:52 PM »

NO idea,    I don't shoot as much as I like. So far all I have is 60 rounds down range with no issues.  On the other hand I sent it to DT before I even got to shoot it because it was broke. In reality my round count was 0 before failure.   To be honest it will take me years before I ever hit the 4000 round mark.  I don't think there is any rifle or firearm I have that has reached 2000 rounds yet.  I maybe able to make it to the range this Monday and toss down another 100 rounds and see how it does. 

For what I intend to use the rifle for it will be alright,   Fun on the range to shoot and to have a bullpup 308 that is a rotating bolt. Taking it out in the woods for hunting. It would be nice if it was dependable to the point to say, Yeah if the SHTF I would take it.     But that just isn't feasible.   Great idea and concept, poor execution of development/rollout. After reading all the reviews people have here, and looking at the reason for the rifle was being delayed. I have to ask my self.  Was this really delayed because of the ejection chute, or was there other issues involved with this delay. 

I still like the rifle.  I really think there is a place for it and has potential.  Now just isn't the time for the rifle.

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thehun
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« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2018, 01:18:53 PM »

Seems almost laughable now, right (part in bold, aside from the whole message).  Is anyone even seeing 1K rounds w/out ripping the rims off cases or other issues?

Quote
September 2, 2016
Dear Valued Customers,
Many of you have asked how well the MDR functions, you can see for yourself. The gun runs awesome and has been for a long time now. We have been validating the first batches of production parts for the past three months. Understand that production parts are not the same as the prototype parts and we must ensure everything is properly toleranced, in specification, and maintains the same strength and durability as the prototyped predecessors. This means we shoot the production guns until we break something; then re-engineer the problem part, remake, and start shooting again. We have hit several unexpected snags along the way but to date we have successfully proofed the MDRís to approx. 4000 rounds with no part failures or malfunctions. We expect our current engineering improvements to greatly increase the round count. Unfortunately, each time a part fails then it takes 7 to 21 days to do another cycle depending on the part. We are completing what we hope is the final cycle at the end of next week. As of today it is not possible to meet the 3rd quarter shipping date that we committed to. The earliest possible time that production guns could hit the streets is November/December timeline. I apologize for the additional delay but know that we are working as quickly and diligently as possible to make the MDRís absolutely fantastic. From this point forward I will post an update on the first day of every month until MDRís are shipping to keep you our valued customers in the loop.
Sincerely
Nicholas Young
CEO, Desert Tech LLC

No comment.
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dmitry
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« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2018, 10:22:35 PM »

Back in September 2016, did they even have working production rifles yet?
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rtp
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« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2018, 12:19:11 AM »

Back in September 2016, did they even have working production rifles yet?

They were pretending to, even per the quote above.
Unfortunately, I'd say time and reported experiences to date would seem to discount quite a few of December DT's words.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 10:58:56 AM by rtp » Logged
whiskey91lima
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« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2018, 02:10:28 AM »

Notice how DT is now silent on BPF and social media now that their are an appreciable number of rifles delivered with a high reported failure rate? Also, notice how they are now delaying 5.56? Rinse and repeat. The development of this rifle has been mismanaged from day one.
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newguy2k3
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« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2018, 09:03:29 AM »

Notice how DT is now silent on BPF and social media now that their are an appreciable number of rifles delivered with a high reported failure rate? Also, notice how they are now delaying 5.56? Rinse and repeat. The development of this rifle has been mismanaged from day one.

I've noticed as well. Almost like some politicians do. Don't acknowledge, disregard, try to change the subject, look over there.
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thehun
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« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2018, 09:04:19 AM »

Weak leadership is what that is...at the top.
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