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Author Topic: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)  (Read 33742 times)
thehun
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« Reply #180 on: October 13, 2018, 05:48:11 PM »

Received my rifle back today. Had a bit of a chuckle as it was packaged in a Palmetto State Armory box. This time it still had its service tag attached and in the box was a letter from another customer talking about a barrel (not MDR) being sent in for some work. As I'm typing this, I'm looking over at the box and realized I never checked the outside paperwork... maybe more goodies to be found.

Anyways, broke down my rifle and looked everything over because for once I actually had some time. Few random thoughts before I head to the range tomorrow.

The lower's fit to the upper is atrocious. It is having to flex (somewhat) slightly for all three pins to be engaged. Due to this overly tight fit I have developed a patent pending (/sarcasm) DT MDR Take Down Pin Tool. Only one in the world, that I know of, and is available for purchase at the low low one time price of $3500!

Seriously, I threw this together out of parts I had lying around and it makes it about a million times easier to remove the pins and re-install them. MDR Range kit needs one of these, a rod for tapping stuck cases, and a torque wrench.
Back to the fit; With the front two pins installed I have to press the upper receiver down towards the lower while siamotainously pushing the buttplate towards the muzzle. On top of this, because the fit is so "tight" its possible for the pin to enter the rear trunnion and then strike the inside of the upper receiver due to cant and open space.

I suspect I know (one of?) the reason(s) the front magazine releases are so "heavy" and break in. Can't tell more without disassembly, and I'm not willing to go that far on a gun I haven't even confirmed function on. It looks like the magazine release buttons are rubbing against the top side of the lower receiver internally. In my picture you might be able to see some flaring where the polymer lower (internally) meets the magazine release buttons. This might explain or contribute to why the fronts are "heavy" and the rear seems better.

^ not sure why it rotated after being uploaded, but I don't care enough right now to try to fix it

All of the issues, which I could check at home, that I sent the MDR in for service seem to be resolved. So theres that at least.

In the ask me anything thread someone asked about the drop safety aspect of the MDR. The response thus far was the rifle is safe if the gun is on safe. Looking at my lower, I wonder how much force it would take to jar components in the trigger group separate from the trigger and trigger bar. (The trigger bar only acts upon the trigger group, it does not secure it. The trigger and trigger bar, however, are secured by the safety.)

Also, CBM if you're reading this you should totally respond to my email!  Tongue

This is what Aussie is talking about
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cjgemm
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« Reply #181 on: October 13, 2018, 06:51:42 PM »

PSA box just screams just screams cheap / barely making it. Very sad from a so(self)-called top tier boutique gun manufacturer. I for one would never purchase another DT product after reading this.

"Desert Tech , even our employees choose PSA over our own offerings!"

AE

So what does a manufacture sending something in a Midway box scream?

Just curious if I should ever do business with GAP again...
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Aussie E
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« Reply #182 on: October 13, 2018, 08:51:40 PM »

PSA box just screams just screams cheap / barely making it. Very sad from a so(self)-called top tier boutique gun manufacturer. I for one would never purchase another DT product after reading this.

"Desert Tech , even our employees choose PSA over our own offerings!"

AE

So what does a manufacture sending something in a Midway box scream?

Just curious if I should ever do business with GAP again...

Here's my take, if a client / customer sent me something in a competitors packaging I would swap it out for my packaging just to make the client / customer appreciate my product even more. I have had Leupold do this when I sent in a scope in for service / reticle change. GAP doesn't have the lack of customer care that DT has shown with the release of the MDR, but it's your choice to do business with them again or not. I have stated my choice on future business with DT.

AE
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cjgemm
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« Reply #183 on: October 13, 2018, 09:37:14 PM »

PSA box just screams just screams cheap / barely making it. Very sad from a so(self)-called top tier boutique gun manufacturer. I for one would never purchase another DT product after reading this.

"Desert Tech , even our employees choose PSA over our own offerings!"

AE

So what does a manufacture sending something in a Midway box scream?

Just curious if I should ever do business with GAP again...

Here's my take, if a client / customer sent me something in a competitors packaging I would swap it out for my packaging just to make the client / customer appreciate my product even more. I have had Leupold do this when I sent in a scope in for service / reticle change. GAP doesn't have the lack of customer care that DT has shown with the release of the MDR, but it's your choice to do business with them again or not. I have stated my choice on future business with DT.

AE

George's Name on the sender line was good enough for me...

This forum is great, I'm always entertained.  Hopefully the Leupold box made up for the scopes lack of tracking.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 08:44:51 AM by cjgemm » Logged
Aussie E
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« Reply #184 on: October 14, 2018, 07:40:58 AM »

PSA box just screams just screams cheap / barely making it. Very sad from a so(self)-called top tier boutique gun manufacturer. I for one would never purchase another DT product after reading this.

"Desert Tech , even our employees choose PSA over our own offerings!"

AE

So what does a manufacture sending something in a Midway box scream?

Just curious if I should ever do business with GAP again...

Here's my take, if a client / customer sent me something in a competitors packaging I would swap it out for my packaging just to make the client / customer appreciate my product even more. I have had Leupold do this when I sent in a scope in for service / reticle change. GAP doesn't have the lack of customer care that DT has shown with the release of the MDR, but it's your choice to do business with them again or not. I have stated my choice on future business with DT.

AE

George's Name on the sender line was good enough for me...

This forum is great, I'm always entertained.  Hopefully the Luepold box made up for the scopes lack of tracking.


No, they did also send me a tracking number, UPS if I remember correctly.

 Wink

AE
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cjgemm
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« Reply #185 on: October 14, 2018, 11:04:59 AM »

The irony is killing me...
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CabbitOne
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« Reply #186 on: December 26, 2018, 07:19:16 PM »

Quick update from a quick range trip.

I finally had some time and got my 6 position gas regulator installed. Easy peasy there.

Was a little rushed due to some inclement weather. But I was able to get a few rounds down the pipe. Two malfunctions, user related. One issue, minor. One issue, minor but could have become major.

Shot twenty rounds of M80 on position three with no issues.

Shot another three rounds. Needed to stop, so I went to clear the live round. Apparently I didn't rip the CH hard enough and it caused the live round to fail to enter the chute and jammed the system. Disassembly fixed this issue.

Went to gas position one with a Surefire SOCOM RC2 installed. Twenty rounds no issue. Another four(?) then I had what I believe was a short stroke, which caused the spent brass to fail to enter the chute and allowed the bolt to attempt to feed the new round. Dropped the magazine, ran the CH, fixed the issue.

Switched over to position two and proceeded to run another 45 rounds without a hiccup.

When I went to pack everything up, I noticed the spring on the dust cover(ejection port cover) is no longer holding the cover in the open position. Looks like the leg(s) are too short and allowed it to pop free.
Also, my rearmost takedown pin had begun to walk. Maybe 1/8 of its travel. Wasn't causing any malfunctions, yet.

From all the brass I collected, I noticed no damage to the rims which was a pleasant surprise.
The MDR is filthy suppressed. Jesus.... No "Tavor Face" or anything, but I was much more aware of the gas in my face from the port cover on my side. Also, pretty filthy inside for not very many rounds. The brass looked like I'd been rolling it around in coal dust. Also had my SCAR 17s out there today with a Surefire SOCOM RC2, wasn't nearly as dirty with more rounds down the pipe. YMMV

Also, the MDR is considerably more pleasant (felt recoil) with the lower gas setting and Surefire Muzzle Brake, with or without the suppressor.

The forward magazine releases are still a tremendous pain in the backside.... I just ended up using the rear one, but it's still irritating me how small/recessed/un-protruded it is.


I have some ideas on improvements for the MDR... but I'm waiting on DT to sell me the parts, I'd rather not mess around with my only 'working' set.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 07:22:11 PM by CabbitOne » Logged
CabbitOne
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« Reply #187 on: January 11, 2019, 12:11:05 PM »

For anyone still following or interested in this;

01/11/18 - - Emailed DT about the dust cover spring, forward magazine releases, and rear takedown pin. We'll see what they say.
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Zeiram3f
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« Reply #188 on: January 11, 2019, 01:29:29 PM »

Very interested. Thanks for the initiative and looking forward to their reply.
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newguy2k3
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« Reply #189 on: January 11, 2019, 02:11:06 PM »

I agree with you on the rear mag release. I don't think it should protrude any more but a wider contact point would be better. If I put my finger across it rather than using the tip to push it my finger sort of deforms around it before it actually releases if that makes any sense.

I haven't had any trouble with the forward release on mine. I may have more grip strength than most though
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Zeiram3f
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« Reply #190 on: January 11, 2019, 02:29:53 PM »

I think, like many issues with the MDR, the mag release is inconsistent. When mine first arrived, I gave it about 1000 cycles (spent an evening just pushing it while watching tv), and about one in every 40 or so presses, the mag release would actually stick... meaning, it would stick in the 'release' position until you pressed or smacked the protruding catch. This was pretty concerning and when the rifle was sent back to DT for other issues, it did come back without the sticking mag release issue, however I was never told why.

So, beyond it being stiff, there was clearly an issue where it wasn't only stiff... it would freeze in place, such that you could slap a magazine in, and it would just fall right out. I might have this issue on video still - not sure.
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CabbitOne
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« Reply #191 on: January 11, 2019, 04:17:30 PM »

I think, like many issues with the MDR, the mag release is inconsistent. When mine first arrived, I gave it about 1000 cycles (spent an evening just pushing it while watching tv), and about one in every 40 or so presses, the mag release would actually stick... meaning, it would stick in the 'release' position until you pressed or smacked the protruding catch. This was pretty concerning and when the rifle was sent back to DT for other issues, it did come back without the sticking mag release issue, however I was never told why.

So, beyond it being stiff, there was clearly an issue where it wasn't only stiff... it would freeze in place, such that you could slap a magazine in, and it would just fall right out. I might have this issue on video still - not sure.

VERY INTERESTING. If you go back through this massive thread mine was doing something similar. Got the rifle, the mag release was stupid heavy. So (WHILE ASSEMBLED) I pressed each side nemours times. It began to lighten, marginally. However it started sticking in the open position. Broke the rifle down and there is a TINY protrusion of polymer that retains the rear of the actuation bar. This had broke and was allowing it to slip free and lock the catch in the out position. Of course you could beat on it to get it back into place.
DT fixed it, but not before sending me someone else's rifle. The erroneous gun had a considerably lighter magazine release button weight to it straight from the box (new gun). When I actually got my rifle back, the new lower had heavy releases that have somewhat lightened, still nowhere near good. And they are uneven in both protrusion and perceived eight. To the point I don't use them.
Just for my own wonderment, was your rifle FDE or black?
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CabbitOne
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« Reply #192 on: January 11, 2019, 04:19:27 PM »

I agree with you on the rear mag release. I don't think it should protrude any more but a wider contact point would be better. If I put my finger across it rather than using the tip to push it my finger sort of deforms around it before it actually releases if that makes any sense.

I haven't had any trouble with the forward release on mine. I may have more grip strength than most though
Protrusion, greater surface area, smaller fencing. Any/all would be nice.

I wouldn't be surprised if its a combination of you having a lighter weight and better grip strength.
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CabbitOne
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« Reply #193 on: January 11, 2019, 04:20:27 PM »

Double tap.
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Zeiram3f
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« Reply #194 on: January 11, 2019, 04:33:46 PM »

VERY INTERESTING. If you go back through this massive thread mine was doing something similar. Got the rifle, the mag release was stupid heavy. So (WHILE ASSEMBLED) I pressed each side nemours times. It began to lighten, marginally. However it started sticking in the open position. Broke the rifle down and there is a TINY protrusion of polymer that retains the rear of the actuation bar. This had broke and was allowing it to slip free and lock the catch in the out position. Of course you could beat on it to get it back into place.
DT fixed it, but not before sending me someone else's rifle. The erroneous gun had a considerably lighter magazine release button weight to it straight from the box (new gun). When I actually got my rifle back, the new lower had heavy releases that have somewhat lightened, still nowhere near good. And they are uneven in both protrusion and perceived eight. To the point I don't use them.
Just for my own wonderment, was your rifle FDE or black?

FDE. Interesting to hear you had the same experience. I did open the lower up to inspect for any visible defects, however I couldn't see any. The operation of the mag release seems rather cumbersome, but I get why it was designed this way.

While the rifle was open, the mag release was marginally lighter, though still unusually stiff (compared to an AR). So, although the mag release doesn't stick anymore, the pressure required to actuate it is inconsistent. At some moments, I can drop a mag with my index finger, no problem... then there's other times where I need to thumb mash it, which is most of the time if I'm being honest. Using the rear release is a waste of time for me as it too requires a thumb mash, which ergonomically doesn't work very well in that location. Full disclosure, I've got girl hands, so I'm not able to monkey the release like many here. Regardless, compared to my ARs, the MDR is significantly stiffer as has been noted here a dozen times over.
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CabbitOne
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« Reply #195 on: January 21, 2019, 01:34:00 PM »

Very interested. Thanks for the initiative and looking forward to their reply.

Rifle is on its way back to DT. We'll see what happens.
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thehun
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« Reply #196 on: January 21, 2019, 01:49:25 PM »

Suck...good luck.
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CabbitOne
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« Reply #197 on: February 05, 2019, 10:49:49 AM »

Delivered to DT on 01/29/19.
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TNC
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« Reply #198 on: February 05, 2019, 11:55:52 AM »

I'm just curious and not asking to promote a "pile-on" response.  I wonder what kind of shipping costs DT is experiencing with all these returned rifles?...or are the customers having to pay for the shipping?  I'd expect shipping costs and an obvious insurance requirement have to be adding up, not to mention their employee time to fix the individual issues.  Seems like this could really eat into any profit margin for any business faced with this issue.
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CabbitOne
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« Reply #199 on: February 05, 2019, 12:36:28 PM »

I'm just curious and not asking to promote a "pile-on" response.  I wonder what kind of shipping costs DT is experiencing with all these returned rifles?...or are the customers having to pay for the shipping?  I'd expect shipping costs and an obvious insurance requirement have to be adding up, not to mention their employee time to fix the individual issues.  Seems like this could really eat into any profit margin for any business faced with this issue.

From my own experience and from talking with others, it seems to be a mixed bag.
DT may or may not pay to have it shipped to them.
DT always(?) pays to have it shipped back to the customer.

At the end of the day, shipping isn't THAT much. They're likely getting a discount from their carrier.
But if they're cash strapped, it would certainly hurt. We also have no idea their profit margins on the rifle.

Not saying this is the case or a smart move, but it might actually be cheaper for them to fix the problem rifles than to strive for shipping all perfect guns out the door. QC is expensive. Having one or two people swap parts, as time permits, isn't.  (random numbers) if I can have this extractor made perfectly every time for $100 or have an extractor made that might work 75% of the time for $20, and my total cost of labor is $5, which route seems smarter... just financially? There is waste/junk produced in any manufacturing, you just have to determine what levels are acceptable for the business goals.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 12:43:04 PM by CabbitOne » Logged
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