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Author Topic: Hands on with the MDR (March 2018)  (Read 10085 times)
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« Reply #80 on: April 17, 2018, 09:13:52 AM »

I would urge readers not to use this forum or other forums as a yardstick on the MDR's reliability.  While issues have been raised, they are no more numerous (and probably less so given that I seem to see the same issues from the same people repeated everywhere) than what the RDB had, and certainly far less than the RFB had.  Don't get sucked into thinking that this forum (or others) are the be-all, end-all word on the rifle (or any firearm for that matter); far more people are going to post negative comments, about anything and everything they can find, than will post positive.  And let's not forget that some of those early "issues" appear to have been self inflicted by the users not following the directions.

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EWTHeckman
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« Reply #81 on: April 17, 2018, 10:19:14 AM »

Seriously? That is what you equate his comments to?

 Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes

It's normal for people to not say anything at all when something is working properly, but have plenty to say when something goes wrong. It's human nature and it applies to a lot more than firearms.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 10:21:23 AM by EWTHeckman » Logged
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« Reply #82 on: April 17, 2018, 10:40:24 AM »

Iím mostly just giving him a hard time.  Heís been a passionate DT defender, even during the years of constant delays.

However, I think itís ridiculous to encourage users to ignore the feedback from users on THIS forum.  There are a lot of knowledgeable people here with a lot of expertise. 

People may be more likely to complain than compliment, but info is info.   As someone who watches new product launches, I follow Gen 1 users (beta testers) and how companies respond to issues that arise.  Thatís a big deal to me.  I think most people can filter out the bogus issues.
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Trips
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« Reply #83 on: April 17, 2018, 04:43:29 PM »

Kfelt - nice offer you made to the forum.  As nice as that would be, I'd just like to see you get out with yours, break it in and give us your feedback.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #84 on: April 17, 2018, 06:07:12 PM »

Seriously? That is what you equate his comments to?

 Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes

It's normal for people to not say anything at all when something is working properly, but have plenty to say when something goes wrong. It's human nature and it applies to a lot more than firearms.

lol...heckman lighten up man...that sh!t was funny.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #85 on: April 17, 2018, 08:10:34 PM »

My apologies for misunderstanding your comment about non-members using a membership range.

Don't you agree that the MDR probably could have used another 6 to 9 months to get quality right based on first impression reports? Prime example, the hand guard, gas tuning, trigger smoothness, mag release...etc.

Certain things are subjective and others are objective.  The trigger and mag release are very subjective.  I think the triggers on both of mine are smooth and generally good to go, same with the mag releases.  The issue with the handguard appears to be a one-off issue and I haven't heard of any others with the same problem.  As for the gas tuning, that does seem to be an issue in a few cases, but from the feedback, certainly not all of them.  

What I see is a tendency to dwell solely on the negative and either discount or ignore the positive.

Edited to add:

You can always play the "What if?" game by asking, "What if they waited another 6-9 months?" and it will get you nowhere.  I believe that when Desert Tech tested the rifles they functioned as designed or they wouldn't have begun shipping product.  The design had to be sound or it wouldn't have worked.  The issues appear largely quality control and not design related.  So far, I have yet to hear of DT refusing to fix any issue, even when they appear to be user inflicted. 

Even Smith & Wesson has issues getting it right, as seen with their latest recall.

DT has shown they want to get this right and want to do right by their customers and I'm willing to give them the chance.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 08:19:08 PM by kfeltenberger » Logged

Kurt
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« Reply #86 on: April 17, 2018, 08:21:01 PM »

Kfelt - nice offer you made to the forum.  As nice as that would be, I'd just like to see you get out with yours, break it in and give us your feedback.

I have a personal policy of not shooting alone after I was one of the first people to respond to a fatal accident at shooting range. 
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Kurt
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« Reply #87 on: April 17, 2018, 09:23:32 PM »

Tourniquet in your pocket, and a GSW/ trauma kit in your truck.  Always tell someone where you are going and how long you intend to be gone.  Cell phone charged and in other pocket.  Depends on where you go shooting... you may be safer by yourself.  Last public range I went to I regretted not bringing my armor... thought I was going to get ADed for sure.
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Frostburg
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« Reply #88 on: April 17, 2018, 10:04:46 PM »

Always keep some basic trauma gear in your car.

Remember, during any trauma you want to focus on any immediate life threats first: the ABCDs.
(Maintaining a patent Airway, consistent Breathing, Cardio-heartbeat, and stop any Dense bleeding).

The most likely issues at a rifle range is gunshot wounds, falls, etc. Upon any sort of gunshot wound, bleed, etc. You want to immediately hold forceful pressure on the wound with a clean, absorbent material, such as a dressing (tampons are also great for this). But in an emergency, anything absorbent will do. If you have nothing absorbent and time is of the essence, just put direct pressure on the wound. It might be painful for the patient to press your knee into their wound, but you want to compress the tissue at the wound site to force stop any bleeding, and help with any clotting. If applying pressure does not work, then move on to the tourniquet. Ideally, you want the tourniquet to be atleast 1 1/2 - 2" wide, and you want to place it atleast 2 or so inches above the wound, and 2 inches away from any joints. You  want it to be compressing soft fleshy tissue.

Only a few years ago it was thought that using a tourniquet meant losing the limb. With the wars in Iraq an Afghanistan, we now know that that is not true. A tourniquet can be in place for 10 hours or more and the limb should be okay, provided the patient gets to a hospital soon. If you are applying a tourniquet, you want to continue tightening the tourniquet until the bleeding stops. If it continues to bleed, tighten further. Once tightened, lock it in place and do not loosen; let the docs do that. Note the time that the tourniquet was applied on the forehead with a sharpie.

If the patient is not breathing, that is also an immediate life threat that needs to be dealt with. Check their airway. Learn rescue breathing. If they fell and hit their head, check their pupils for fixation or unevenness in size. Check the extremities and lips for any blue coloration as a sign of hypoxia. Keep them still. Learn to check vitals: Pulse, breathing, blood pressure, pupils, skin color/moisture, breathing, and pulse ox. Learn to take blood pressure manually. I don't trust those computers to do it; they are prone to error (You have no room for error when it comes to blood pressure). Learn to get good at taking blood pressure, and get yourself a quality blood pressure cuff and stethoscope. Good stethoscopes can get expensive, but it's a good investment for any household. Blood pressure and pulse can tell you alot about what's going on inside the body during a medical emergency. A drop in blood pressure, or sudden increase in pulse could indicate the patient is bleeding internally and going into shock. Oxygen is needed to offset any hypoxia that is going on.

Stopping the patient from bleeding out takes precedence over CPR. But you must learn CPR. If a patient is in cardiac arrest (no pulse, no heartbeat), that's a very serious state, and death is very likely. In order to determine cardiac arrest, you must know how to find a pulse quickly. Know where to check for pulse. Most importantly for now: Radial and Carotid pulse. But the Carotid is most important to check if the patient is unresponsive when determining potential cardiac failure. If you call, several paramedics and even possibly the fire department will be racing there as fast as possible during any possible cardiac arrest. Current technique emphasizes high performance chest compressions. Once begun, you MUST NOT STOP. If it's just you, by yourself, just focus on compressions until you have assistance. Forget about the rescue breaths for the time being. (This is different from old procedures that focus on both breathing and compressions together). If you stop compressions for more than even a few seconds, the patient may not make it. When doing compressions, keep your elbows locked out, and use your waist to power your thrusts. One hand over the other- over the breastbone. You want atleast 2" compression, and full recoil of the chest when you go back up. Your pace should be roughly 100 beats per second. There are iphone metranomes and even songs that match this rhythm. You might crack some ribs, but better to turn the ribs to mush than stop compressions and interrupt blood circulation. The only time you will stop is when someone else who is trained takes over (due to your fatique), or an AED is analyzing for a shockable rhythm, and before a shock is applied. AED instructions can be found online.  

If they are bleeding out and also going into cardiac arrest. You need to stop the bleeding ASAP and then get to compressions. Get a tourniquet on it ASAP. No point pumping the heart if there is no blood left to pump.

There is alot more to this, but you can learn all this on your own if you don't already know.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 10:34:13 PM by Frostburg » Logged
thehun
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« Reply #89 on: April 18, 2018, 08:11:59 AM »

Kfelt - nice offer you made to the forum.  As nice as that would be, I'd just like to see you get out with yours, break it in and give us your feedback.

I have a personal policy of not shooting alone after I was one of the first people to respond to a fatal accident at shooting range. 

That sucks you had to witness that...really sucks.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #90 on: April 18, 2018, 08:17:19 PM »

Tourniquet in your pocket, and a GSW/ trauma kit in your truck.  Always tell someone where you are going and how long you intend to be gone.  Cell phone charged and in other pocket.  Depends on where you go shooting... you may be safer by yourself.  Last public range I went to I regretted not bringing my armor... thought I was going to get ADed for sure.

I'm well aware of the dangers, and those are the ones I can handle.  However, when there's an issue where the rifle's receiver fails and parts of it go back and into the shooter's head, that's something I can't control or deal with and I rather that should something like that ever happen to me, that someone would be there...if only to call 911.

This is more an issue of "I don't want to be found several hours/days after I died" than an "I don't have the first aid kit or training to deal with an injury".
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Kurt
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« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2018, 08:23:07 PM »

Kfelt - nice offer you made to the forum.  As nice as that would be, I'd just like to see you get out with yours, break it in and give us your feedback.

I have a personal policy of not shooting alone after I was one of the first people to respond to a fatal accident at shooting range. 

That sucks you had to witness that...really sucks.

It appears that a few years ago, Ian from Forgotten Weapons discussed the event.  There are links to Rick's (one of the folks who was on scene and taking the same class as I was) recollection of the event.

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/winchester-lee-navy-safety/
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Kurt
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« Reply #92 on: April 22, 2018, 07:44:45 PM »

 Getting back on topic.

  I've had some more time to play with the .308 MDR and I'm about the 600 round mark right now.  Handing my MDR off the a friend to shoot last weekend I noticed the propensity of inducing a FTE malfunction quite unique to the MDR.  Unique because it involves obstructing the ejection chute.  With a live round in the chamber if the operator pulls the charging handle back far enough to remove the round from the chamber but does not use enough force, the ejecting round becomes lodged in the opening of the ejection chute. Looks like this.





If you ride the charging handle or simply do not use enough force while attempting to cycle the action with a round in the chamber, this malfunction will result every time.  When this malfunction is induced the charging handle becomes bound up, and the bolt will not cycle requiring the operator to remove the ejection chute panel to clear the stoppage.  Racking the charging handle like you mean it seems to cycle live ammo through the chute without issues.

  I ran into another malfunction issue while using dirty ammo(externally), in dirty magazines.  I was getting multiple failures of the bolt to go into battery with a mostly full magazine. When I reduced the magazine capacity to 3 rounds I was able to get the bolt to chamber a round properly.  I ran about 150 rounds through the rifle that day but it was clean and lubed when I started.  It looks like the extra friction of the dirty magazine and ammo was enough to slow the bolt so it would not completely go into battery.  Not a good sign for reliability.
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« Reply #93 on: April 23, 2018, 05:16:01 AM »

Getting back on topic.

  I've had some more time to play with the .308 MDR and I'm about the 600 round mark right now.  Handing my MDR off the a friend to shoot last weekend I noticed the propensity of inducing a FTE malfunction quite unique to the MDR.  Unique because it involves obstructing the ejection chute.  With a live round in the chamber if the operator pulls the charging handle back far enough to remove the round from the chamber but does not use enough force, the ejecting round becomes lodged in the opening of the ejection chute. Looks like this.





If you ride the charging handle or simply do not use enough force while attempting to cycle the action with a round in the chamber, this malfunction will result every time.  When this malfunction is induced the charging handle becomes bound up, and the bolt will not cycle requiring the operator to remove the ejection chute panel to clear the stoppage.  Racking the charging handle like you mean it seems to cycle live ammo through the chute without issues.
DT themselves talked about this at shot show, I believe it was Ian's SHOT footage where they talk about it.

I ran into another malfunction issue while using dirty ammo(externally), in dirty magazines.  I was getting multiple failures of the bolt to go into battery with a mostly full magazine. When I reduced the magazine capacity to 3 rounds I was able to get the bolt to chamber a round properly.  I ran about 150 rounds through the rifle that day but it was clean and lubed when I started.  It looks like the extra friction of the dirty magazine and ammo was enough to slow the bolt so it would not completely go into battery.  Not a good sign for reliability.

What magazines were they? Can we see the magazines and ammo to see how dirty they are?
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Blackandwhiteknight
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« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2018, 11:27:52 PM »

New Pmag.  It was a mixture of rain, dirt and chamber debris in the mag when I was shooting.  Looks like this now.



When I was heading out to the range I grabbed a bunch of stuff to shoot. The stuff I had problems with was a really old batch I loaded when I first started reloading.    I was using Hornady case lube and didn't tumble after loading. This batch still had some of the lube on the cartridges. Never had a problem with them in my AR10, but looks like the MDR doesn't like it.  I'm thinking the friction from the junk on the cartridges is dragging the bottom of the carrier enough to keep it from going into battery.  I want to clean everything, then find some dirt to jam in a magazine. I'm thinking it will do the same thing.
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