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Author Topic: Hands on with the MDR (March 2018)  (Read 9967 times)
thehun
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« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2018, 09:00:34 AM »

Is the interface steel on steel....or is it steel to aluminum...if aluminum...is it 7075 or something else?

The Tavor and AUG does something similar as well...it will hold accurate shots to about 5-10rds...after that it opens up...maybe its the curse of the bullpup design somehow.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 02:13:09 PM by thehun » Logged
Blackandwhiteknight
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« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2018, 07:52:23 PM »

  The barrel locks into a steel block / clamp that is bolted to the receiver via 6 hex bolts.  Looks like there is some interlock with the steel rails for the charging system/ OP rod rail.  I did some testing today and got the gun pretty hot.  Three mag dumps brought the barrel up to about 170-190 degrees.  I loaded the top 5 rounds of the mag with decent ammo with the remaining 15 M80.  Shot a 5 shot group and dumped the rest of the mag as fast as I could, three times.
   It looks like I got about a 1 MOA POI shift downward on the second mag.  The ammo I was shooting for groups was average and seemed to hold around 1.5 MOA no matter how hot I got it.  I loaded up some 168 AMAX match to give it a decent accuracy test but by them it was 38 degrees and pouring rain.  With optics fogging and everything soaked, the suck meter was pegged Sad.
  I think the gun will hold a group under heat.  60 rounds of .308 rapid fire pretty much exceeds most users practical rate of fire, so I'm not too concerned about that.  I will probably up the mag dump range to 100-150 for the .223 when I get it, just to see how it holds up.  You get into that range and it's basically all of your combat load, and s*** has seriously hit the fan.
  Hopefully next time the weather will cooperate and I can get a little better accuracy testing and more info on the POI shift.
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thehun
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« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2018, 09:06:14 PM »

Sounds like a robust barrel lock. 1 MOA shift is not bad at all.
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Siris
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« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2018, 10:33:47 PM »

I haven't noticed any shift in mine but also haven't done much on paper either. I was ringing steel with a red dot at 500 yards though. Shooting it at the longer range the other day along side my scar I noticed that while I could get tighter groups out of the scar the mdr seemed to be more consistent across a wider range of ammo. I was firing a mix of various ammo from some higher end match all the way down to m-80 ball and what ever I could get cheap. Though I will say the mdr is a hell of a lot cleaner than the scar.
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mityno1
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« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2018, 11:57:13 PM »

... Shooting it at the longer range the other day along side my scar I noticed that while I could get tighter groups out of the scar the mdr seemed to be more consistent across a wider range of ammo. ... Though I will say the mdr is a hell of a lot cleaner than the scar.

Assuming your SCAR is a .308 SCAR 17s...

A few of us awaiting our MDR deliveries have SCAR 17's. So your comparisons of your MDR to your SCAR is of particular interest to us because it is a comparison we can easily relate to and know about what to expect from our MDR's whenever we finally get them.

How would you rate your SCAR 17's recoil in general?

How would you rate your SCAR 17's recoil compared to other .308 or 30-06/7.62x51 or 7.62x54R rifles?

With that established, how does your MDR's recoil compare to your Scar 17?

Thanks and thanks for any other comparisons of your MDR to your SCAR 17 you would like to give.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 11:58:55 PM by mityno1 » Logged

Re: MDR Group Buy - official BPF list!
Reply #360 on: January 04, 2015, 05:29:50 AM
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HBeretta
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« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2018, 06:17:39 AM »

With that established, how does your MDR's recoil compare to your Scar 17?

...the SCAR comes with a proprietary muzzle brake installed, the MDR does not > 3 prong flash hider; no recoil mitigation.  throw a muzzle brake on the MDR like cbm did in one of his vids and it tames the recoil quite a bit.  

« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 06:42:04 AM by HBeretta » Logged
Siris
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« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2018, 07:36:23 PM »

... Shooting it at the longer range the other day along side my scar I noticed that while I could get tighter groups out of the scar the mdr seemed to be more consistent across a wider range of ammo. ... Though I will say the mdr is a hell of a lot cleaner than the scar.

Assuming your SCAR is a .308 SCAR 17s...

A few of us awaiting our MDR deliveries have SCAR 17's. So your comparisons of your MDR to your SCAR is of particular interest to us because it is a comparison we can easily relate to and know about what to expect from our MDR's whenever we finally get them.

How would you rate your SCAR 17's recoil in general?

How would you rate your SCAR 17's recoil compared to other .308 or 30-06/7.62x51 or 7.62x54R rifles?

With that established, how does your MDR's recoil compare to your Scar 17?

Thanks and thanks for any other comparisons of your MDR to your SCAR 17 you would like to give.


When i go to the range I generally take both the both the mdr and scar 17 with me so I've had a lot of time to shoot them back to back. I would say there is very little discernable difference in the recoil between the mdr and the scar. The 308 is stout but I wouldn't call it uncomfortable. The scar has a long recoil impulse, it can feel almost like its lopping with that heavy bolt group, where as the mdr has a shorter sharper impulse. Maybe it is because I have more time with the scar but I find I can feel when it goes empty better than on my mdr. The back blast on the OEM muzzle break on the scar is horrid, I usually tell people around me to keep their mouths open because it will pop ears and unplug the computer system at the indoor range. As for other comparisons, the fit on the mdr is tighter than on my scar. I'll add to that that I am still running the OEM lower and I hear the after markets are tighter. That is not to say the OEM stock is flopping around but I can definitely induce a bit of flex and wiggle on it. The take down on the scar is easier, in my opinion, with one highly irritating exception and that is the piston. The piston on the mdr is far easier to knock out with a cleaning rod (there is a tool for the scar but I don't have it). That being said neither one is particularly difficult to take down. The last thing I would note is accuracy. While the scar is capable of greater accuracy it is picky about what ammo it will do it with. Where as the mdr shoots fairly consistently regardless of what the weight of the ammo is. The conclusion I would make is they are honestly both excellent rifles and I'm certainly happy to be lucky enough to own both.

On a side note, the scar likes to heat its receiver quite a bit but that one bit of rail on top of the gas port on the mdr is in exactly the same damn spot I tend to grab my rifle by....trains you real quick to pick it up from else where.
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« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2018, 03:49:17 AM »

Thanks Siris!

If you go with an aftermarket SCAR lower, go with the Stryker brand. Accept no substitutes. Stryker lowers are not only a precision design and precision machined, but the magwell in broached, not milled. No one else I know of broaches a SCAR lower magwell because it more expensive to make it that way. But you can't hold the magwell tolerances as consistently any other way. Stryker cuts no corners. Even the hard coat anodize is the best most expensive process none of the other brands offer. I know I sound like a Stryker shill, but I have no association with them whatsoever except being a very satisfied customer.  You can thank me later if you get one.

The only "complaint" with the Stryker lower is some PMAG's fail to fall free and others don't. Especially new PMAGs. Eventually after many insertions all PMAGs will drop free but I sanded my tight PMAGs a little with 320 grit sandpaper where they needed it to speed up that process. You will find almost every aftermarket PMAG SCAR lower has this same complaint and the solution is to sand the PMAG's as they seem to vary in their outward dimensions a little from generation to generation and perhaps from batch to batch.

NOTE ABOUT PMAGS: There are two different .308 PMAGs, one is made for M80 length ammo and the other is a little longer to accommodate longer .308 loads. My SCAR 17 Stryker lower runs them both just fine, but I can see where it could be an issue in some applications.

I went with the aluminum Tango Down stock latch button which tightened my stock up solid. But a word of caution here, I push the aluminum latch to open and close the stock because I fear slapping the stock into the extended position could cause the aluminum latch to break the plastic "lip" or "tab" on the base plate because aluminum won't "give" and the Tango Down button spring is stiff. And the aluminum latch could over time wear down the plastic latch tab if it is folded and unfolded without pushing the button first, both ways. But I seldom fold my stock so it was a good compromise to tighten up the wiggle for me.

Another thing to be aware of with the SCAR piston is the piston ring gaps. Mine would soot up really fast and ran super dirty. Until I realized the three ring gaps were aligned into one gap that allowed a ton of blowby and carbon to get past the rings. Make sure your ring gaps are staggered! I stagger mine so the top and bottom ring gaps are aligned but the center ring is 180* opposite. It made a big difference for me. Also, NEVER use any type of lube on the SCAR piston!  It is made to run dry and getting my ring gaps spaced really seemed to help make it easier to remove. Still stiff as you describe, but it was almost impossible to get it out when the gaps were aligned together and it was heavily fouled from running a dozen or mags per outing. I think the fouling gets baked on harder the hotter it gets. I don't do fast rapid fire mag dumps with my SCAR, but after 4 or 5 mags, even spacing the shots, that pecile barrel is going to get toasty and bake the carbon fouling on harder than if you never shoot enough rounds to really heat up the SCAR.

My SCAR has a healthy jet of fire that flashes up from the gas block and it tends to  smoke up the front lens of any long scope mounted on it. I've thought about fabricating a small sheet metal deflector to solve this issue but I have never gotten around to it.

Now as far as the OEM PWS SCAR 17 brake, I LOVE IT! It works! But I'm old and 1/2 deaf... Smiley I plan to spend the $100 for one just like it for my MDR when I get it.  

As far as the recoil impulse of the SCAR, yes I would call it a slow stiff push rather than a sharp punch. That slow push allows me to shoot all day, 200-500 rounds with no significant pain or bruising. Yes, I feel it enough to know I have been shooting, but I can shoot another 500 rounds the next day, no problem. I could never do that with say an M1 Garand. Which makes me appreciate even more those tough sumb****es who did that and more in WWII!  Even the M1A is very uncomfortable for me to shoot a lot of rounds per range session as compared to the SCAR.

These early reports we are seeing from people with their new MDR's had me really concerned that I would not like the MDR's recoil as compared to my SCAR. But you have restored my faith Siris, especially thinking the PWS brake will probably take some of the sharpness many have written about off of the MDR's recoil.

Recoil is very subjective and one problem with a lot of people in the USA, especially most of our veterans, who I thank and am grateful and for their service, is that most sport shooters here in the USA are 5.56 biased.  That is not necessarily a bad thing, but:
.308/7.62x51 >>>>> .223/5.56x45

So we have an apples and oranges comparison. .308 is TWICE the power on target as 5.56 (~2,800 muzzle ftlbs vs ~1,400 ftlbs). An increase in felt recoil is the consequence of that doubling of power in a ,308 platform only a couple of pounds (or less) heavier than the typical AR.

Anyone who has considerable intermediate cartridge 5.56 or even 7.62x39 experience (say 5,000+rounds) and who has only a fraction of that experience with a full power cartridge, may not be the best judge of full power .308 recoil. That apples and oranges thing can bias one's opinion of felt recoil. And while there are perhaps tens of thousands of Americans with well over 5,000+ round count 5.56 experience, there are far fewer who have spent the thousands of dollars more it costs to run that much .308 or other full power ammo. I dare say that I would bet the average MDR buyer has shot less than 1,000 rounds of .308 in their lifetime and most of those probably never will.

I'm not being critical because having a platform to be able to do so if needed is still far better than not having a platform that can do so if needed. It's just that getting a fair assessment of an MDR configured in .308's recoil on the internets (having not yet shot an MDR myself), is well, not always reliable info because one usually does not know the experience level and biases of those giving their reports. That is why your report is very significant to me Siris, because we both have SCAR 17's so I can relate to to your comparisons with my own several years of firsthand SCAR 17 experience. Apples to apples.

Well since I already wrote this much, I will add this for those whose eyes are not yet bleeding from reading my ramblings...

Why semi-auto .308 for me? Of all the apocalyptic scenarios, imagine this one. It is the most concerning to me...

You have not slept much in a long time and you, your family and neighbors have not had anything to eat for days. You are weak and trembling from hunger pangs. Perhaps you are a consistent 2 MOA shooter with a semi-auto .308 on a good day without a bipod, bags or a bench. But this is not a good day, far from it.  You are out trying to hunt anything you can when you see a deer, maybe 50 yards out. You don't have a good shot on him and again your arms and whole body is shaking. The lives of several people, including your own may depend on you taking this deer...

Sure, people take deer all the time with .223/5.56. Good shot placement is all you need. But the odds are stacked way against you getting that good shot placement on this day. Still, the ethics of preserving human lives outweighs the ethics of how you take this deer. Given these immediate circumstances, you must take the shot, you have no choice. Even knowing it will be a poorly placed wounding shot that will cause him to run and you to track him.

The question then becomes, which blood trail will be easier to follow, a .22 caliber blood trail or a .30 caliber one?  

Why a semi auto when bolt guns are far more accurate and there is a wide selection of hunting cartridges more powerful than ,308, like say .300WM and .338Lapua?

Well the second part of this scenario is that a shot or shots taking a deer may draw unwanted attention from bad people. The kind of bad people who sharing your deer kill with them would not be enough. They would rather take it all and perhaps kill you and strip you of any items useful to them. They of course will have semi-autos. Probably 30 round mag AR's and/or AK's. And there will probably be more than one of them, because that is how cowards operate, in gangs.

Whereas if I am in that kind of scenario, I will have spread my family and neighbors out as wide as possible in different directions to hunt in an effort to increase our chances since we are sharing our kills. You cannot expect any backup to reach you in time to make a difference if you are alone. You are on your own with no radio, no nearby reinforcements, no armor, no artillery, no CAS, no drone support, nothing. Just you.

Also consider that any such "marauders" may be wearing body armor. .308 will still hurt more than an intermediate cartridge, even if it does not penetrate. And pain can be a serious demotivator. Especially to those who are not cornered and have the option to disengage.

Granted, 23 rounds in a 25 round PMAG and one in the chamber is still six less rounds than a 30 round mag (most douche bags probably don't know to download their mags by at least one or two rounds to increase feeding reliability). And this only gets worse if there is more than one of them.

Mag swaps under fire will probably be required to stay in the fight if you or I survive that long. But .308 has the advantage of cutting through cover better than 5.56 and even 7.62x39. And knowing I'm backed into a corner with my back is against the wall, I will have already counted myself dead. My concern then becomes eliminating as many threats to my family and neighbors with whatever time I have left. It is a highly motivational scenario for me because winning at any cost becomes more important than surviving because the safety and lives of others I care about are depending on me. Here a reliable .308 semi-auto with reasonable accuracy and a couple of spare mags is probably adequate in this situation considering the circumstances and considering the different motivation levels of the participants.

Now the likelihood of any such hypothetical scenario ever playing out is far less than the odds of winning the Powerball. The point is to own a rifle chambered in a caliber that could perform those tasks adequately and reliably if the need were ever to arise. My version of Murphy's Law says, "Those things you are most prepared for are the most unlikely to ever happen. But what you are least prepared for are the things most likely to happen." So I look at it like buying a life insurance policy where you are betting you will never have to collect on it.

I differ in my .308 approach from the late great Jeff Cooper (may he rest in peace) and his 6 pound .308 "Scouting Rifle" bolt gun concept he believed every upstanding adult American male should own. I think the 2-2.5 pound weight penalty of a semi-auto is more than offset by the ability to at least have a chance against bad guys with AR's and AK's.

While my modified and upgraded SCAR 17 fills that bill of being the "one rifle if you can only have one rifle," the MDR offers the potential of doing all of that in a smaller form factor that should be easier to carry through brush and briers, should be easier to operate from concealment in brush and briers, should be faster to swing to acquire targets and should be easier to hold in ready and aimed postures longer as the balance is much farther rearward and closer to the centerline of the spine than the SCAR 17. Arm fatigue holding it at the ready or aimed should be less despite it weighing nearly 1/2 a pound more than the SCAR 17.

But only time will tell after I receive my MDR. Until then all I can do is continue to wait patiently, twiddle my thumbs and twinkle my fingers on my keyboard as I daydream about it and hope I won't be disappointed. And if I am, the Tavor 7 is coming so I will give it a try. The good news is I can probably rent a Tavor 7 at a local range that already has a 5.56 Tavor for rent (and a Barrett .50) as I expect they will add a Tavor 7 to their rental fleet when it becomes widely available.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 04:51:51 AM by mityno1 » Logged

Re: MDR Group Buy - official BPF list!
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« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2018, 04:38:26 AM »

(duplicate post - delete)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 04:49:23 AM by mityno1 » Logged

Re: MDR Group Buy - official BPF list!
Reply #360 on: January 04, 2015, 05:29:50 AM
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« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2018, 04:36:14 PM »

While that is very sound reasoning, my single concern about the MDR is reliability. I am waiting on the 5.56 MDR, but I am thinking that I will probably wait a good year after the 5.56 is released before I buy an MDR. No offense to the rifle, but I have been hearing about too many bugs in the initial release MDRs for me to feel comfortable trusting it in such a situation. I feel like a year or a year and a half from now, and Desert Tech should have all or most of the bugs ironed out.

For the time being, my trusted rifle is between my RDB or AR15. Like it or not, the RDB has developed a solid reputation as a reliable rifle, even under stress. The MDR has had too many issues among already known forum members (which to me, is even more concerning from a statistical view point).

The MDR needs to prove itself, and its initial showings in terms of durability are really not spotless. Also, the slight complexity of its internal mechanisms make me nervous when it comes to rough usage. Maybe after some time, the MDR will mature into a solid tank of a rifle. At that point, I will have no issue trusting it. But for the time being, I'm very leery. But we just have to wait and see for more reports, and any updates from Desert Tech. And that will take some time. Probably several months atleast.
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Siris
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« Reply #70 on: April 15, 2018, 06:04:59 PM »

While that is very sound reasoning, my single concern about the MDR is reliability. I am waiting on the 5.56 MDR, but I am thinking that I will probably wait a good year after the 5.56 is released before I buy an MDR. No offense to the rifle, but I have been hearing about too many bugs in the initial release MDRs for me to feel comfortable trusting it in such a situation. I feel like a year or a year and a half from now, and Desert Tech should have all or most of the bugs ironed out.

For the time being, my trusted rifle is between my RDB or AR15. Like it or not, the RDB has developed a solid reputation as a reliable rifle, even under stress. The MDR has had too many issues among already known forum members (which to me, is even more concerning from a statistical view point).

The MDR needs to prove itself, and its initial showings in terms of durability are really not spotless. Also, the slight complexity of its internal mechanisms make me nervous when it comes to rough usage. Maybe after some time, the MDR will mature into a solid tank of a rifle. At that point, I will have no issue trusting it. But for the time being, I'm very leery. But we just have to wait and see for more reports, and any updates from Desert Tech. And that will take some time. Probably several months atleast.

To be fair I read about just as many issues with the rdb when it was this new. I would chalk some of this as teething issues for the manufacturing and see how we look in a few months. So far I've not seen anything worse than the missing welds, self disassembling bolts, etc. Of the early rdbs
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« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2018, 07:07:49 PM »

While that is very sound reasoning, my single concern about the MDR is reliability. I am waiting on the 5.56 MDR, but I am thinking that I will probably wait a good year after the 5.56 is released before I buy an MDR. No offense to the rifle, but I have been hearing about too many bugs in the initial release MDRs for me to feel comfortable trusting it in such a situation. I feel like a year or a year and a half from now, and Desert Tech should have all or most of the bugs ironed out.

For the time being, my trusted rifle is between my RDB or AR15. Like it or not, the RDB has developed a solid reputation as a reliable rifle, even under stress. The MDR has had too many issues among already known forum members (which to me, is even more concerning from a statistical view point).

The MDR needs to prove itself, and its initial showings in terms of durability are really not spotless. Also, the slight complexity of its internal mechanisms make me nervous when it comes to rough usage. Maybe after some time, the MDR will mature into a solid tank of a rifle. At that point, I will have no issue trusting it. But for the time being, I'm very leery. But we just have to wait and see for more reports, and any updates from Desert Tech. And that will take some time. Probably several months atleast.

To be fair I read about just as many issues with the rdb when it was this new. I would chalk some of this as teething issues for the manufacturing and see how we look in a few months. So far I've not seen anything worse than the missing welds, self disassembling bolts, etc. Of the early rdbs

Upon superficial observation, sure that seems to be the case. But to those who were closely following the release of the RDB closely, it quickly surprised many with its solid reliability. Go back and look at the in depth reviews. Many people have thousands of rounds through their RDBs with no issues. HankStrange did a video where he put 500 rounds through his RDB right out of the box, and with no lube, and while getting very hot. Most AR15s would fail that test. Sure, there were some lemons and Keltec quickly made design updates to address those, but even those were well within the minority. The RDB came out in relatively large numbers (compared to the MDR) when released. I quickly found mine on Gunbroker within weeks of official release; with a much larger pool of RDBs on the market, a significantly smaller number showed issues. I think it's only been recently that you would be able to find MDRs on gunbroker. Within a few months of the RDBs release, like 25 RDBs could be found online at any given time, selling withing the $900 range.
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thehun
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« Reply #72 on: April 15, 2018, 08:04:18 PM »

I am with Frostburg on this one...the RDB came out in large numbers...the issues weren't as high % as the MDR when you compare share numbers of rifles being shipped.

I would chalk up the RDB a more reliable platform than the MDR is right now...
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« Reply #73 on: April 15, 2018, 10:19:09 PM »

I would urge readers not to use this forum or other forums as a yardstick on the MDR's reliability.  While issues have been raised, they are no more numerous (and probably less so given that I seem to see the same issues from the same people repeated everywhere) than what the RDB had, and certainly far less than the RFB had.  Don't get sucked into thinking that this forum (or others) are the be-all, end-all word on the rifle (or any firearm for that matter); far more people are going to post negative comments, about anything and everything they can find, than will post positive.  And let's not forget that some of those early "issues" appear to have been self inflicted by the users not following the directions.

If I could find a place that would allow a sizable number of non members to attend, I'd consider bringing my two MDRs out on a Saturday for a break-in session and let others have a chance to shoot them.
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« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2018, 03:25:49 PM »

This forum is for just that...bullpups...this is where actually bullpup enthusiast post their findings...good, bad or the ugly.

This is EXACTLY where people should come do research and make up their mind whether or not to get a bullpup...whether or not its a MDR...come on man. I do the same with 1911s...CZs and such. I go to their specific forums to gain such knowledge on those platforms.

What baffles me is that you want non-members to attend your special break-in session? Are you afraid that if BPF members show up and your MDRs have hiccups they will call it out? Post something about it?


« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 03:27:23 PM by thehun » Logged
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« Reply #75 on: April 16, 2018, 03:41:35 PM »

What baffles me is that you want non-members to attend your special break-in session? Are you afraid that if BPF members show up and your MDRs have hiccups they will call it out? Post something about it?

I agree with everything else you said, but I think he meant non-members as in people who weren't members of the range he does it at.
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« Reply #76 on: April 16, 2018, 04:10:57 PM »

This forum is for just that...bullpups...this is where actually bullpup enthusiast post their findings...good, bad or the ugly.

This is EXACTLY where people should come do research and make up their mind whether or not to get a bullpup...whether or not its a MDR...come on man. I do the same with 1911s...CZs and such. I go to their specific forums to gain such knowledge on those platforms.

What baffles me is that you want non-members to attend your special break-in session? Are you afraid that if BPF members show up and your MDRs have hiccups they will call it out? Post something about it?

Did my dog take a dump in your Wheaties? 

Right now, there is pretty much zero long term experience with the MDR and while there is a fair number in the wild, there have been a handful of people posting about their experiences and of those that were negative, some were self inflicted.  So for now, no, I don't think this is a good place to do the research that will make up someone's mind because there aren't enough data points.  The 1911 is different, no one currently using it was alive when it was introduced, and I'd venture that a fair number of CZ-75 users are in a similar situation, so there are both numbers and time for datapoints on those weapons.

As for my offer, it was for people who weren't members of the range.  But you see, it's people like you and your crap on everything attitude that makes people like me decide it just isn't worth it to post an offer or even my experiences with the rifle.  Hell, I was even going to supply the ammo and spring for the first round after it was done.
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« Reply #77 on: April 16, 2018, 04:26:19 PM »

My apologies for misunderstanding your comment about non-members using a membership range.

Don't you agree that the MDR probably could have used another 6 to 9 months to get quality right based on first impression reports? Prime example, the hand guard, gas tuning, trigger smoothness, mag release...etc.




« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 04:29:40 PM by thehun » Logged
JesseJames38
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« Reply #78 on: April 16, 2018, 07:54:48 PM »

I would say if they waited another 6 to 9 months, nothing would have changed.     If for a fact that all of these delays where just because of these "ejection chutes". All of these rifles where problem sitting on a rack 90% assembled   if not assembled just had the parts sitting in boxes waiting for the chutes to be received.   I personally believe these problems would have still been sitting in the boxes tell the rifles have been shipped.  From what I can tell the magazine release worked ok on my MDR.  As for the trigger, it was creepy and gritty. The handguards bolted on solid, as for the durability I wouldn't know because I have no plan on attaching a bipod to it.  About the most I would attack is a light, and a sling mount.  Gas tuning, I have no idea as I never put 1 round down range.  For a 2500 dollar rifle. Yes I did expect better.      From the stand point of a roll out.   Eh,  I cant say they are any worse or better then Kel tech at this point. So far from what I understand Kel tech had issues with mags falling out of the gun,  Same as one person mentioned with there MDR.  Kel tech has pin walking out of the bolt for the extractor that caused issues.  Kel tech had hammers braking which caused the ability to not fire.   Kel tech had welds on the bolt carrier breaking.  And I guess in some instances Kel tech had issues where the bolt carrier would get jammed in the back of the gun.  On the other hand MDR has issues with the trigger but still goes bang, except for one person where he has light strikes or doesn't reset the trigger. MDR has a pin that walks out for a counter balance for the mag release, which makes it harder to push in the button. MDR tends to rip off rims at extraction which is a possible gas tuning issue.   MDR has a pin that brakes for the scissor mech, apparently some one else has that same pin broke at the end but still functions fine. And of course one user has a handguard braking.

If I was going to look at these points alone, I would say both rifles tend to have a pretty constant base of what issues you will run into out of the box.  And if you have no issues in the state, you most likely  wouldn't have any down the road.  I would also say with all the issues that the MDR is rolling out with from the factory, the only one that really seems like it causes a bad day is the casings being stuck as that seems to be the only repeating issue from multiple MDR's that cause the rifle to fail.   The pins,  trigger  handguard ect still allows the rifle to fire and work

That's just my personal option.    The RDB is defiantly a good rifle to buy for the price.  hell if I had a extra 900 or 1000 I would go out and buy one.  But once again, the reason I chose the MDR, was at the time they where the only .308 bullpup in town other then the RFB, and I personally rather have a rotating bolt rifle then a tilt locking bolt.  If I didn't already had money down on the MDR I would have look into the Tavor 7,  Which as you know has also been delayed, will it be delayed as long as the MDR  most likely not.

In close I would say that My MDR felt rock solid in my hands. installing the handguard to the MDR was also solid and I didn't have any wiggle in the plastic handguard like some one else did. Not sure if its because its black and not FDE, or perhaps the luck of the draw.

Jesse.
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thehun
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« Reply #79 on: April 16, 2018, 08:31:47 PM »

I see your point.

I will say...even Magpul had issues with their FDE polymer blend over their Black...now they have fixed that with the MCT color.
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