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Author Topic: Out of the Wilderness: The Desert Tech Micro Dynamic Rifle  (Read 2499 times)
SHORT-N-SASSY
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« on: March 12, 2018, 07:41:07 PM »


(https://www.pressreader.com/usa/firepower/20180101/281505046559197)
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thehun
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« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2018, 08:03:17 PM »

So is it a 1 MOA gun cold bore for 5 rounds and then its 1 MOA+ with DT's premium match ammo?

I can't remember...what has been the reported groups with regular M80 ball?
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Potss
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2018, 11:15:34 PM »

Who cares what they say when they don't post groups?
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spacegunz
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2018, 01:27:22 AM »

Thatís a very disappointing number of malfunctions reported by this review. At first I thought maybe it was a bad batch of ammo (Freedom Munitions), but then their replacement rifle got another stuck case with Federal American Eagle .308. Iíve had a few jams in my Scar 17 with cheap surplus ammo, but never in any rifle Iíve ever owned have I had an ammo related malfunction with American Eagle ammo.
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whiskey91lima
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2018, 03:15:42 PM »

So is it a 1 MOA gun cold bore for 5 rounds and then its 1 MOA+ with DT's premium match ammo?

I can't remember...what has been the reported groups with regular M80 ball?

Over the next month or so, I plan on doing extensive accuracy analysis of my MDR for multiple ammo types and manufactures. I am a PhD Engineering student and plan on applying similar experimental and statistical rigour as I do in my research. I picked up my pre-order today.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 03:17:27 PM by whiskey91lima » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2018, 04:53:24 PM »

So is it a 1 MOA gun cold bore for 5 rounds and then its 1 MOA+ with DT's premium match ammo?

I can't remember...what has been the reported groups with regular M80 ball?

Over the next month or so, I plan on doing extensive accuracy analysis of my MDR for multiple ammo types and manufactures. I am a PhD Engineering student and plan on applying similar experimental and statistical rigour as I do in my research. I picked up my pre-order today.

This excites me greatly. Keep us posted and give us lots of data.

Maybe that guy who did the scar vs ar thing on (I think) arfcom would be interested in doing analysis as well.
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Potss
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2018, 10:44:23 PM »

whiskey91lima I'm very excited for your results.  If you'd like any help with load selection let me know.  Will you be using 5x5 standard or the harder Molon 3x10 standard?
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whiskey91lima
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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2018, 11:16:50 PM »

whiskey91lima I'm very excited for your results.  If you'd like any help with load selection let me know.  Will you be using 5x5 standard or the harder Molon 3x10 standard?

My plan is as follows:

5 shot groups for as much as the ammo that I choose (20 or greater) per ammo type. I will measure the (x, y) coordinate position with respect to point of aim (POA). This will allow statistical analysis across the lot. I will also record barometric pressure, temperature, and muzzle velocity. From the raw data, I will report:
- min, mean, max, standard deviation for radial distance from center of mass (COM) of all shots.
- min, mean, max, standard deviation in the x and y directions from COM for all shots.
- 1-sigma, 2-sigma, 95th percentile, and max for the diameter, MOA, with respect to COM.
- min, mean, max, standard deviation for the max spread of each 5 shot group.

Since I don't have a ton of money to spend on ammo, here is the ammo and # of shots that I have planned currently:
- 100x ZQI 7.62 NATO M80 ball
- 100x Lithuanian surplus 7.62 NATO M80 ball
- 100x M118 LR
- 50x Tula 150gr .308 steel case
- 25x DT .308 Match
- 25x Federal Premium Match
- 20x Federal .308 GMM
- 20x Nosler Match King

Please let me know if you have any requests or recommendations for the process, ammo, or other. If you're willing to fund ammo, I'd be more than happy to test it.
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Potss
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2018, 12:23:24 AM »

Sounds good, I just have two suggestions.

The first would be to shoot them in a manner compliant with the ARFCOM MOA Challenge (snipershide challenge is basically the same), only maybe with a larger rear bag: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Precision-Rifles/-ARFCOM-1-MOA-ALL-DAY-LONG-Challenge-/17-51/  Reason being you can then get a really good idea how it stacks up vs. the s***load of other rifles that have been run through it over the past 6 years.  Or maybe just do that once you've narrowed down the top performers, up to you.  But basically, I'd recommend doing five, five shot groups per target as the minimum as that gives you the best statistical representation of accuracy capability of the rifle without spending a ton.

The second is for ammo.  I realize everyone has budget constraints (maybe folks here could take up a collection and paypal it to you or something if the data is good, put their money where their mouths are), so just pick up the following as money allows:

1.) Atlanta Arms 175gr TMKs: https://atlantaarms.com/products/308-175gr-tmk-20-box.html

2.) Prime Match+ 175gr OTM: https://www.primeammo.com/ammunition/308/prime-308-win-otm-175gr-match-box.html

3.) Creedmoor 168gr Lapua brass: https://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/2324/Rifle-Ammunition

4.) Lapua Scenar 167gr: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001917945/lapua-scenar-ammunition-308-winchester-167-grain-hollow-point-boat-tail-box-of-50

5.) Berger 168gr Classic: http://www.bergerbullets.com/products/ammunition/

That should cover all the best non-boutique match ammo and give a really good picture of what the rifle is capable of.  Hope that helps.
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rtp
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2018, 12:32:32 AM »

My plan is as follows:

5 shot groups for as much as the ammo that I choose (20 or greater) per ammo type. I will measure the (x, y) coordinate position with respect to point of aim (POA). This will allow statistical analysis across the lot. I will also record barometric pressure, temperature, and muzzle velocity. From the raw data, I will report:
- min, mean, max, standard deviation for radial distance from center of mass (COM) of all shots.
- min, mean, max, standard deviation in the x and y directions from COM for all shots.
- 1-sigma, 2-sigma, 95th percentile, and max for the diameter, MOA, with respect to COM.
- min, mean, max, standard deviation for the max spread of each 5 shot group.

Since I don't have a ton of money to spend on ammo, here is the ammo and # of shots that I have planned currently:
- 100x ZQI 7.62 NATO M80 ball
- 100x Lithuanian surplus 7.62 NATO M80 ball
- 100x M118 LR
- 50x Tula 150gr .308 steel case
- 25x DT .308 Match
- 25x Federal Premium Match
- 20x Federal .308 GMM
- 20x Nosler Match King

Please let me know if you have any requests or recommendations for the process, ammo, or other. If you're willing to fund ammo, I'd be more than happy to test it.

Would suggest adding Amax 155gr into the mix as it's shot the best to date for me/my MDR and may perform better than FGMM, or at least to date for me.
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whiskey91lima
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2018, 12:37:40 AM »

Sounds good, I just have two suggestions.

The first would be to shoot them in a manner compliant with the ARFCOM MOA Challenge (snipershide challenge is basically the same), only maybe with a larger rear bag: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Precision-Rifles/-ARFCOM-1-MOA-ALL-DAY-LONG-Challenge-/17-51/  Reason being you can then get a really good idea how it stacks up vs. the s***load of other rifles that have been run through it over the past 6 years.  Or maybe just do that once you've narrowed down the top performers, up to you.  But basically, I'd recommend doing five, five shot groups per target as the minimum as that gives you the best statistical representation of accuracy capability of the rifle without spending a ton.

The second is for ammo.  I realize everyone has budget constraints (maybe folks here could take up a collection and paypal it to you or something if the data is good, put their money where their mouths are), so just pick up the following as money allows:

1.) Atlanta Arms 175gr TMKs: https://atlantaarms.com/products/308-175gr-tmk-20-box.html

2.) Prime Match+ 175gr OTM: https://www.primeammo.com/ammunition/308/prime-308-win-otm-175gr-match-box.html

3.) Creedmoor 168gr Lapua brass: https://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/2324/Rifle-Ammunition

4.) Lapua Scenar 167gr: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001917945/lapua-scenar-ammunition-308-winchester-167-grain-hollow-point-boat-tail-box-of-50

5.) Berger 168gr Classic: http://www.bergerbullets.com/products/ammunition/

That should cover all the best non-boutique match ammo and give a really good picture of what the rifle is capable of.  Hope that helps.

Great suggestions. Thanks!
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2018, 05:43:34 AM »

To all those involved in this worthwhile undertaking, Good show!
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Blackandwhiteknight
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2018, 10:57:13 PM »

Thanks for posting the article.  I thought the comments on the trigger break in were interesting.  With some of the issues with the mag release and the trigger it looks like this gun really just needs a proper break in, or at least some finger banging.  Also very interested to see the accuracy testing.  Would be nice to see what temperature ranges these torn cases are occurring in, and if any fouling issues may be popping up around the chamber.  Would be curious to see how dirty the chamber area gets after a decent string of fire given the enclosed nature of the action.
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Lead_Whisperer
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2018, 12:13:02 AM »

Would be nice to see what temperature ranges these torn cases are occurring in, and if any fouling issues may be popping up around the chamber. 

I had a couple of stuck cases / ripped rims running on Adverse, Non Suppressed at 40 degrees.  Using Lake City Brass, 167gr Scenars. 
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whiskey91lima
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« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2018, 12:50:20 AM »

Would be nice to see what temperature ranges these torn cases are occurring in, and if any fouling issues may be popping up around the chamber. 

I had a couple of stuck cases / ripped rims running on Adverse, Non Suppressed at 40 degrees.  Using Lake City Brass, 167gr Scenars. 

Stuck cases/ripped rims seems to be a common issue during break in.
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ShootingSight
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2018, 08:15:25 AM »

Why is anyone doing accuracy testing using 'groups'?  Groups is the poor man's way to test for accuracy, and 5 shots certainly is not a statistically significant sample size.

The thing to do is to record x,y coordinate data for all shots, with 20 being a minimum, and 30 or 35 being even better, then develop standard deviations and variances.  With that data you can develop theoretical group sizes for the 95%, 99%, or whatever confidence range you want.
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Art Neergaard
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coldboremiracle
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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2018, 09:20:16 AM »

Why is anyone doing accuracy testing using 'groups'?  Groups is the poor man's way to test for accuracy, and 5 shots certainly is not a statistically significant sample size.
How about because pretty much everyone is "poor", and it is also the most widely accepted standard way of testing for accuracy. People dont want theories, they want to see what a rifle actually does. Shooting five or ten five shots groups is a great way to see that.
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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2018, 09:47:19 AM »

Why is anyone doing accuracy testing using 'groups'?  Groups is the poor man's way to test for accuracy, and 5 shots certainly is not a statistically significant sample size.
How about because pretty much everyone is "poor", and it is also the most widely accepted standard way of testing for accuracy. People dont want theories, they want to see what a rifle actually does. Shooting five or ten five shots groups is a great way to see that.

If someone can afford a $2,500 rifle, Iíd think they could afford Artís method.
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thehun
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« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2018, 10:09:30 AM »

Yeah. If you can afford a MDR or other high end weaponry then you can swing good ammo and proper accuracy  tests.

However most will probably just max out credit cards to get one...

5-10 group is preferred by most because it doesnít let your gun open up too much so you can claim the tacticool magic number of 1 MOA.
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coldboremiracle
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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2018, 10:13:27 AM »

Why is anyone doing accuracy testing using 'groups'?  Groups is the poor man's way to test for accuracy, and 5 shots certainly is not a statistically significant sample size.
How about because pretty much everyone is "poor", and it is also the most widely accepted standard way of testing for accuracy. People dont want theories, they want to see what a rifle actually does. Shooting five or ten five shots groups is a great way to see that.

If someone can afford a $2,500 rifle, Iíd think they could afford Artís method.

You'd think so, but half of the rifles I've seen come back with problems have junk ammo in them. And Im not sure how the method mentioned above is any different than shooting groups. Isn't recording X&Y coordinates then developing a theoretical group size essentially the same thing as averaging group sizes shot, then considering that your margin or error?
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The first shot, is worth all the rest.

Follow me on FB, IG, YT

I work for Desert Tech, happy to help wherever I can.
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