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Author Topic: Suppressed Pup Primarily for Home Defense  (Read 2091 times)
smody121
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« on: March 11, 2018, 12:24:34 PM »

Hello gents,

New to this forum, but spent a little time looking through various subs for some background knowledge. I figured I'd ask the question here because of all the bullpups, the Tavor seemed like the best of the bunch, plus I'm lefty so love the feel and modularity.

I do not currently own a bullpup, but the reason I'm looking in to them now is that I'd love to get one for specifically home defense. I was thinking of some sort of SBR or a bullpup but have been leaning towards a Tavor suppressed. My priorities being a bedside firearm would be:

1. Use a round that doesn't overpenetrate but sustains stopping power
2. Keep the rifle as quiet as possible (will be using subsonic ammo)
3. Be maneuverable
4. Cost is not as much a concern due to the importance of this being my HD weapon I need to rely on most

So I'll be suppressing 9mm, 5.56 or 7.62 NATO, understanding that a dedicated can for the caliber would be my best bet. Since I'm not quite as well versed as you all, I figured I'd pose the question to the group. would a suppressed x95/7 be the optimal choice or is there another platform/caliber I'm overlooking for my specific needs?

Sorry if this question has been asked and answered, but if you have any quick links to other posts you may find relevant that would be good too.

Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 12:53:35 PM by smody121 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2018, 01:35:36 PM »

If you are requiring yourself to use subsonic ammo. You'll have to go the 9mm route. Since 7.62 NATO and 5.56 are inherently supersonic. And if you load either down to a subsonic round. They won't cycle the firearm. Nothing wrong with going the 9mm X95 route. It certainly better than a handgun, and you'll get improved ballistics out of a longer barrel. But it's also "still just" a pistol caliber.

Also, w/a 16in barrel some/most subsonic ammo may go trans/supersonic out of it.

I'm not a Tavor expert. I like them, but I don't own one, in any caliber. So others here may be able to talk more about the pros/cons of suppressing one.

9mm ball can penetrate more than 5.56. But if you're using a 9mm gun for defense. It's best to use a JHP if you can. Assuming the type of ammo will work reliably and expand out of a 16in barrel.

I'm a big AUG fan. And though they do suppress. Partly being a piston gun. Partly having the action right by your ear, they're not the best suppressor host.

You'll have to do research.
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Vitamin G
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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2018, 06:40:02 PM »

I hate to pee on the bullpup punchbowl, but if you're going to stick with subsonic, you can build yourself a 9mm AR pistol for about $600 with a 6-7 barrel, use 147gr ammo, and have it about the size of a standard AR after tossing the can on the end.

Alternatively, you can drop $1600ish on a 9mm tavor, add the can, and be roughly about the same length.


$1000 is a lot of subsonic ammo.
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sboone
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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2018, 06:49:03 PM »

Of the 3 choices, 9mm is your best bet for suppressor use.  As a HD duty gun Iím assuming that your HD scenarios are inside of a house and not a ranch in Wyoming.  

While not a bullpup, the Scorpion Evo pistol is an excellent choice for suppressor HD.  30 round mags, low recoil, and excellent accuracy.  A dedicated 9mm can will most likely not be required, a 45 can will run not much noticeably louder than the dedicated 9 inside a house.  This is my personal choice HD

Where the 9mm makes up for stopping power is easily offset by low recoil and the fact that you can have 3 hits on target in the same amount of time it takes with a rifle especially at short distance

Sight in at 25 yds and itís good to go
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mpd3285
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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2018, 07:38:24 PM »

Nothing against a IWI, but an option for you: SBR a FN PS90.  I would not use subsonic ammo, but you could use a variety of suppressors (titanium rimfire, pistol, or rifle) to make it pretty quiet/manageable for home use, have a lefty friendly pup (bottom eject), 50rnds on tap, flat shooting at distance, etc.  All the reasons it is used as a PDW around the world.  The idea of "Stopping power" has a lot to do with hits and shot placement over caliber.  In my 22 years LE experience, bad guys tend to "stop" (doing what they were doing) whenever they get hit, no matter the caliber.  Also if money is no option, a B&T TP9 with a DT/GHW folding brace, and a B&T Rotax 9mm can.  That's super light and small for the PDW role.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 07:41:21 PM by mpd3285 » Logged

Steyr AUG= Austrian combat Legos since 1977.
Why SBR when you can AUG?! - Haven't we been taxed enough already?
TNC
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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2018, 07:47:18 PM »

I love my Tavor, but when it comes to suppressed, cost effective platforms, the 300BO AR15 is an excellent choice.  Get a 9", or so, pistol gas length barrel and shoot readily available 200+ grain subsonic bullets.  Leave your suppressor attached at the house or when you need it quiet elsewhere, and it will do the job for any reasonable defensive application within 100 yards.  It also works great for shooting varmints within that 100 yards. 

My home built version is relatively inexpensive, and it is quite accurate.  There are other subsonic options out there, but when it comes to cost, performance, and options, the 300BO in an AR15 is hard to beat.
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smody121
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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2018, 08:15:34 PM »

Thanks for all the responses so far gentlemen. I will be using it in a suburban home (not a ranch in Wyoming unfortunately) but it sounds like I'm going to be stepping up my research in 9mm Skorpion Evo and 300BLK AR SBR categories. I think shot placement will be paramount, but from what I'm reading some say about 9mm is that when they hit dry wall they effectively become FMJ rounds and start penetrating. But I'll keep up the research, thanks again for all the suggestions so far!
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pyroxide
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2018, 05:01:00 AM »

How come I see videos about how the X95 will cycle with subsonic? The X95 has an adjustable gas system...
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Jack Flag
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2018, 12:20:46 PM »

Are you thinking of the X95 in .300 Blk or 9mm?
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TNC
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2018, 01:16:28 AM »

Thanks for all the responses so far gentlemen. I will be using it in a suburban home (not a ranch in Wyoming unfortunately) but it sounds like I'm going to be stepping up my research in 9mm Skorpion Evo and 300BLK AR SBR categories. I think shot placement will be paramount, but from what I'm reading some say about 9mm is that when they hit dry wall they effectively become FMJ rounds and start penetrating. But I'll keep up the research, thanks again for all the suggestions so far!

smody, remember on the 300BO AR, it doesn't have to be an SBR with tax stamp and such.  A 300BO AR pistol at that 9" ideal barrel length for suppressed can be a legal pistol with numerous options for braces/stocks...however you want to classify them.  Mine is a pistol setup with a Shockwave Blade, and it works very well.
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SteveD
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2018, 03:20:11 AM »

Unless the Tavor in 9mm came in sbr form, AR Pistol is what you're looking for (u wanted subsonic). You can go 45 but meh. 7.5" barrel (honestly prefer 5.5 but a little harder to find complete upper, 147 gr HST, done deal. 300 blk out over pens unlesss you use a varmit round (and if you wanted subsonic 300 BO, it has same energy as a pistol round anyways) . Want it to be SUPER compact? Dead Foot arms Folding "stock"/brace adapter that has the capability of firing folded (tad bit expensive, $500 ish). for your brace, use a SBM4 for more comfort. Shockwave feels terrible but lighter and looks nice. Subsonic 223/556 btw is 22lr basically hehe
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smody121
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« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2018, 09:13:09 PM »

Are you thinking of the X95 in .300 Blk or 9mm?

9mm, if I went 300BLK I think I may just build an SBR AR platform maybe
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smody121
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« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2018, 09:16:45 PM »

thanks TNC and SteveD! This is a great head start on my research. And SteveD, yes I've heard those issues about subsonic 223 haha (basically a 22 already right??)
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pyroxide
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2018, 06:35:14 AM »

Are you thinking of the X95 in .300 Blk or 9mm?

9mm, if I went 300BLK I think I may just build an SBR AR platform maybe

If wanting an X95 in 9mm, might as well call subsonic out the window, as everyone says it wont cycle the action because it is picky. Personally, I would rather have an AR pistol or something more exotic, like a CZ Scorpion EVO or B&T GHM9 (dang, I wish it was made in .45 ACP) in 9mm or a B&T APC45 [in .45].

A Tavor X95 in .300 Blackout is much more appealing than the other calibers for defense. SBR if willing to wait on NFA tax stamp, otherwise the SBR conversion kits will be available later down the road. I don't see anybody else trying to SBR a bullpup chambered in a .30 caliber or higher rifle.

This is just my take on this subject. As always, you'll have to weigh your options: price, ammo price, reliability, sound, accuracy, customization. If price is a big concern, the GHM9 that I mentioned is $1300, and a reliable pistol with a good-sized magazine. 9mm ammo is easy to come by and wont break the bank, either.
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pilot4prophet
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2018, 11:44:37 AM »

I'm late to this thread, but my two cents.
I bought the SAR-21 in 5.56. I'm a collector, so I thought that I would complete the piece with the 9mm conversion. I works just fine. I added the Ratworx ZRX. It's not a practical 9mm for all purpose use. Others have pointed out that you can build/buy a great lightweight 9mm PCC for 1/3 the cost of the Tavor.
Still I like the 9mm tavor just for it's uniqueness and a plinker.


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« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 11:49:48 AM by pilot4prophet » Logged

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