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Author Topic: 2018 update  (Read 10958 times)
E7G USMC
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« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2018, 07:04:00 AM »

The MDR?  or a TAVOR 7! ORIGIN 12!

Years of waiting for the MDR? Issue after Issue! I am only going to wait till 2-25-18  for DT to start providing Quality rifles or the game is over and I am going to cash out.  I will go with the TAVOR 7 or the ORIGIN 12.  MyIWI SAR is a very excellent rifle. The TAVOR and FOSTECH are very reliable and are not Ghost Guns. Flag Raising Flag Raising Not any More Angry
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thehun
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« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2018, 08:37:32 AM »

922r comes to mind with this revelation. You'd think that they're smarter than that even after everything, but can we really be sure?

This is actually a very good point. I'd figure they have the right count in the rifle...but with this latest revelation...who knows.
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EWTHeckman
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« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2018, 08:40:43 AM »

922r comes to mind with this revelation.

I usually see this in reference to importing complete rifles needing to have a certain number of U.S. made parts. Does it actually cover importing just parts, too?
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thehun
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« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2018, 12:10:43 PM »

922r comes to mind with this revelation.

I usually see this in reference to importing complete rifles needing to have a certain number of U.S. made parts. Does it actually cover importing just parts, too?

Yes, in regards to parts that are controlled by 922r. That is why it is somewhat important to know what else is foreign made on the rifle.

For example: raw materials can be foreign...but making the part must be done here to be labeled American made. Barrel blanks can come from China, but the rifling, machining and finishing has to be done here to bear Made in USA. This logic applies to all parts.

You ever wonder how most ARs components are cheap...foreign raw materials and more than likely foreign made parts from Asia. Not that is necessarily a bad thing as most of those countries have more advanced manufacturing than many US companies...but the quality varies greatly based on targeted price points.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 12:16:56 PM by thehun » Logged
Tubal
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« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2018, 12:53:33 PM »

You guys are all freaking out about nothing (again).

Nick's update last Novemberish said that they had MIM issues with their original ejection panel and their supplier needed to re-tool and weren't expecting the parts to be ready until Feb-March this year.

Then Stephen came out with an update a month or so ago and said "Good news guys, looks like our MIM supplier is able to get these parts out much faster than we originally thought.  We may have them by the end of December."

Then this latest update comes out "Bad news guys, MIM parts have been stuck in customs for a couple weeks but they should be here in 6 more days"

Bullpupform:  "OMG REEEEEE THEY MUST BE IMPORTING THE WHOLE GUN AND THEY ARE ILLEGALLY SAYING THAT THIS GUN IS MADE IN USA WHEN IT'S ALL MALAYSIAN OMG!!!!"

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thehun
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« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2018, 01:05:04 PM »

Negative. That is not what is being said. That is what you might be perceiving.

Customers have every right to ask whatever questions or concerns they have.

Knowing what parts are or are not imported is actually a valid concern.
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whiskey91lima
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« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2018, 02:05:53 PM »

Then Stephen came out with an update a month or so ago and said "Good news guys, looks like our MIM supplier is able to get these parts out much faster than we originally thought.  We may have them by the end of December."

"We may have them by the end of December."

That word is why I'm not overreacting about this. Yes, the endless delays are frustrating but it is apparent that they are making progress and the communication from Stephen Kingston has been professional and open. He has personally answered some of my questions and gave me reassuring and professional answers.

We are just tainted by the bad PR decisions of DT regarding the MDR in the past, the frustrating delays, and the unprofessional behavior of Nick Young on the forums. If they have another delay regarding the dust covers, MIM, or QC, then we have more right to be frustrated.

Regarding "Made in the USA", my personal opinion: The MDR is engineered, designed, tested, and assembled by Americans in the USA and a significant number of parts are manufactured by Desert Tech themselves. If Desert Tech uses top industry vendors to manufacture, particularly difficult and expensive parts, I am happy with that as a customer. I would rather have a barrel made by a top rated manufacture, American or otherwise, than for Desert Tech, a very small company, manufacture every single part themselves.

The whole idea of "Made in the USA" is that the it is top quality and that the money goes to American entrepreneurs. Everything that we have heard about the design of the gun is top quality, and Desert Tech is certainly a small American company, owned and operated by Americans.

If you don't like the latest delay, cancel your pre-order. The rest of us will have our next gen rifle in our hands soon enough.
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thehun
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« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2018, 02:56:21 PM »

One really good thing that came out of the MDR is the lesson of how NOT to do a product release. Probably doing the industry a huge favor.

I might have to make it a case study example.

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Tubal
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« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2018, 03:02:01 PM »

Negative. That is not what is being said. That is what you might be perceiving.

Customers have every right to ask whatever questions or concerns they have.

Knowing what parts are or are not imported is actually a valid concern.

Do you know which parts are or are not imported on your Keltec?  Have you ever posted in a forum about it or any other gun besides the MDR?  Sure it's a valid concern, but I suspect it's "more valid" with the MDR since it's a gun you have been crapping on here for the last 6 months.

Have any of your other gun manufacturers posted "machine monday" videos on facebook showing them machining the bulk of the gun parts in house?
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Clarke-Sensei
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« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2018, 03:14:43 PM »

I really don't see the concern about imported components as long as they are good parts. Getting cheap parts for being cheap's sake is certainly a concern on various platforms,but I'm sure DT has chosen a good company to manufacture those components that they've decided to not manufacture themselves.

In the MDR's case, 922r compliance is already a fair guarantee, bringing it up is simple paranoia.

Tubal, I will have to say that nobody expects top shelf from a Kel-Tec firearm, and the difference in expectation between a 2500$ MDR and a 1000$ RDB is monumental.
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Tubal
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« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2018, 03:17:32 PM »

Tubal, I will have to say that nobody expects top shelf from a Kel-Tec firearm, and the difference in expectation between a 2500$ MDR and a 1000$ RDB is monumental.

I realize.  I was just trying to make a point about this "concern" that thehun has all of a sudden about imported parts.  I brought up Keltec because I know thehun is an owner and a fan (which there is nothing wrong with).
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Potss
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« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2018, 03:22:50 PM »

I'm not sure what on earth makes you think DTA is capable of choosing good suppliers foreign or domestic.  They have proven nothing but the opposite for years now.  No real point in speculating because we will never know (they could have made it all up again), but to claim that "you are sure DTA chose good parts" is a bad joke at this point.

Do you know what the biggest difference is between a $800 RDB and a $2500 MDR?  I can actually buy the RDB. And the trigger delivered, and it isn't gassy as f*** when suppressed, and there is a proper adjustable gas block, and there are no CH issues.  Now the RDB has its own issues including spotty QC, but I wouldn't go around comparing the MDR to anything you can actually purchase at this point.
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thehun
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« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2018, 03:37:48 PM »

Negative. That is not what is being said. That is what you might be perceiving.

Customers have every right to ask whatever questions or concerns they have.

Knowing what parts are or are not imported is actually a valid concern.

Do you know which parts are or are not imported on your Keltec?  Have you ever posted in a forum about it or any other gun besides the MDR?  Sure it's a valid concern, but I suspect it's "more valid" with the MDR since it's a gun you have been crapping on here for the last 6 months.

Have any of your other gun manufacturers posted "machine monday" videos on facebook showing them machining the bulk of the gun parts in house?


I wouldn’t question KelTec on what materials they use because I recognize that at their price points more than likely the materials are likely not top tier.

The problem is that DT keeps having supplier issues all the time that causes delays and then they announce a part is outsourced. So yes. When the company keeps not deliverying on promises...I question so that my hard earned dollars don’t go to waste. If it hurts your feelings...that’s on you.

For what DT charges for these weapons...it is a luxury-top end brand after all...nothing but perfection should be expected both out of the product and the company.

Still some fail to see that I want the MDR to succeed. Some times feedback from consumers that critique things is what ‘s needed.
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Clarke-Sensei
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« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2018, 03:49:50 PM »

I'm not sure what on earth makes you think DTA is capable of choosing good suppliers foreign or domestic.  They have proven nothing but the opposite for years now.  No real point in speculating because we will never know (they could have made it all up again), but to claim that "you are sure DTA chose good parts" is a bad joke at this point.

Do you know what the biggest difference is between a $800 RDB and a $2500 MDR?  I can actually buy the RDB. And the trigger delivered, and it isn't gassy as f*** when suppressed, and there is a proper adjustable gas block, and there are no CH issues.  Now the RDB has its own issues including spotty QC, but I wouldn't go around comparing the MDR to anything you can actually purchase at this point.

Let me start off with the sheer fact that I'll gladly take an RDB and RFB over an MDR. I love Kel-Tec's designs, and they get things right for a good price. Those reasons alone in comparing the RDB and MDR are reasons why I would rather purchase an RDB over the MDR (I also think the MDR is rather ugly). I don't see any personal advantage for myself to take an MDR over a KT.

I will say in my own defense that DT has a quality expectation that they have to live up to, and repair at this point. That is the simple reason why I'm sure they hired a manufacturer to make a good quality component. Yet, it seems like they got a company just like themselves who hit "snags" along the way. The validity of those snags is questionable, but the parts quality is likely there.
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Ditcher
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« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2018, 04:08:12 PM »

Is this why DT doesn't want to take care of the Bullpupforum GP?  Smiley
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Clarke-Sensei
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« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2018, 04:14:26 PM »

Is this why DT doesn't want to take care of the Bullpupforum GP?  Smiley

If it is, I'm sure we wouldn't be too surprised. I know I wouldn't be.
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whiskey91lima
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« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2018, 04:17:00 PM »

Desert Tech does have a reputation of manufacturing high quality, high price tag rifles. I pre-ordered precisely because of my experience with the SRS and DT customer service. To me, the PR nightmare really seems like mistakes made from inexperience developing a radically new product (for them) by a small company.

I will pass my final judgement on the quality of the MDR once I am able to shoot a couple thousand rounds through mine, and it does look like delivery will actually happen in the next few months. However, if they keep delaying month after month into the summer, I will seriously reconsider cancelling my order. Until then, the vitriol on this forum is reaching a crescendo.

Let me start off with the sheer fact that I'll gladly take an RDB and RFB over an MDR. I love Kel-Tec's designs, and they get things right for a good price. Those reasons alone in comparing the RDB and MDR are reasons why I would rather purchase an RDB over the MDR (I also think the MDR is rather ugly).

A digression but I am actually of the opposite opinion. I think that the looks of the MDR are much much better looking than the Keltecs. Though the RDB survival is something else entirely. Granted, looks are almost entirely subjective. That being said, I have no problem with the RFB/RDB rifles and almost bought one myself. The only thing preventing me from buying a RFB is that I don't like >2 MOA accuracy on a .308 rifle.
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Clarke-Sensei
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« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2018, 04:27:37 PM »

I like the more utilitarian look of the KT's, especially the RFB. The MDR looks like a Mass Effect gun, and while I love Mass Effect, I don't care for the weapon aesthetics (except the Geth Pulse rifle and the Mattock).
Certainly don't blame you on holding off due to the average accuracy of the RFB. I'm not keen on shooting the wings off a fly, so ~2 MOA is fine for my uses should I pick one up.
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thehun
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« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2018, 08:57:54 PM »

Is this why DT doesn't want to take care of the Bullpupforum GP?  Smiley

If it is, I'm sure we wouldn't be too surprised. I know I wouldn't be.

If it is...then DT as a company needs a lot of growing up to do...
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Frostburg
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« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2018, 01:49:13 PM »

I'm not sure what on earth makes you think DTA is capable of choosing good suppliers foreign or domestic.  They have proven nothing but the opposite for years now.  No real point in speculating because we will never know (they could have made it all up again), but to claim that "you are sure DTA chose good parts" is a bad joke at this point.

Do you know what the biggest difference is between a $800 RDB and a $2500 MDR?  I can actually buy the RDB. And the trigger delivered, and it isn't gassy as f*** when suppressed, and there is a proper adjustable gas block, and there are no CH issues.  Now the RDB has its own issues including spotty QC, but I wouldn't go around comparing the MDR to anything you can actually purchase at this point.

I highly recommend the RDB. It's a great rifle! Sure, they have had some QC issues, but they have mostly worked to resolve them. The RDB is a lightweight, well balanced, ergonomically designed rifle that is easy to shoulder, handle and work. It has a highly simplistic design, and breaks down like no other rifle. In terms of design, it's all pros as I can think of no real cons (besides the stiff bolt release and non-numbered gas adjust). It's easily the best handling 5.56 rifle on the planet today.

Let me start off with the sheer fact that I'll gladly take an RDB and RFB over an MDR. I love Kel-Tec's designs, and they get things right for a good price. Those reasons alone in comparing the RDB and MDR are reasons why I would rather purchase an RDB over the MDR (I also think the MDR is rather ugly). I don't see any personal advantage for myself to take an MDR over a KT.

I will say in my own defense that DT has a quality expectation that they have to live up to, and repair at this point. That is the simple reason why I'm sure they hired a manufacturer to make a good quality component. Yet, it seems like they got a company just like themselves who hit "snags" along the way. The validity of those snags is questionable, but the parts quality is likely there.
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