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Author Topic: Malfunction unique to the X95?  (Read 798 times)
Rastoff
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« on: December 03, 2017, 02:57:36 AM »

I ran across a malfunction that may be unique to the X95. I don't have a SAR so I can't compare, but it might do this as well. Look at this video:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/6TsIJY-7ssg?hl=en_US&amp;amp;version=3&amp;amp;rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/6TsIJY-7ssg?hl=en_US&amp;amp;version=3&amp;amp;rel=0</a>
Controlled Pairs- Click here if the video doesn't show

This is just me shooting some controlled pairs. I was testing a new shell deflector. More on that some other time. Anyway, at 27 seconds, you can see that I get what looks like a Type II malfunction (stove-pipe or fail-to-eject), but the gun fires anyway. Hmmmm, if it were a true Type II, it wouldn't fire. I didn't even notice I had this malfunction until I reviewed the video.

This happened again today, but the gun didn't fire. When I checked the gun, I saw the brass sticking out. Normal clearance procedure: tap the mag, rack the action. I did that, but instead of clearing the brass and chambering a new round, I induced a Type III malfunction (double feed). Apparently, the spent casing didn't get caught until the bold carrier had fully retracted and was inserting a new round. Today the new round went fully into the chamber, but wasn't captured by the extractor. So, when I racked the action, the new unfired round stayed in the chamber. When it tried to feed the next round, obviously I had a double feed and went into my Type III clearance procedure: lock action open, strip mag, finger sweep ejection port, rack action 3 times, insert new mag, rack action.

This is not a big deal when I'm at the range just practicing. It's a huge problem in competition or in self-defense. This cannot be allowed to continue and I think I know what's causing it. I'm just curious to hear if anyone has seen this before.


« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 03:06:42 AM by Rastoff » Logged

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SteveD
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2017, 03:18:28 AM »

Wow the gun fired with brass sticking out of the ejection port? Guess the lugs are locked before the carrier is fully closed  Lips Sealed
Would maybe look into aftermarket brass deflectors, shave some of it, or remove it completely
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DubageL
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2017, 08:22:27 AM »

Itís highly unlikely but You may just want to make sure you have the correct brass deflector installed from the factory. They are different for the different calibers.
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cciman
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2017, 12:35:48 PM »


"I was testing a new shell deflector."

I think that shell deflector is the problem.

I use a percival armaments extended shell deflector for both SAR and X95 without problems.

https://www.bullpuparmory.com/product_p/pa-tavx95-shdef.htm
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Rastoff
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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2017, 04:20:01 PM »

"I was testing a new shell deflector."

I think that shell deflector is the problem.
I agree, I think that the shell deflector is the issue. I'm designing a new one and I just don't think this design is optimal. However, I did find it interesting that the gun could still fire.

Wow the gun fired with brass sticking out of the ejection port? Guess the lugs are locked before the carrier is fully closed  Lips Sealed
Would maybe look into aftermarket brass deflectors, shave some of it, or remove it completely
No need to look into after market, I'm building the after market. For now I will go back to stock.

The brass wasn't really holding the bolt open. The bolt has enough power that it completely flattened the mouth of the spent casing. So, when the gun still fired that one, the bolt was fully closed and the flattened brass was just wedged between the bolt carrier and the stock.

I'm happy the gun kept working under this condition. Not happy that it happened. Back to the drawing board.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 08:13:57 PM »

If you were testing a new shell deflector, and did not have problems using the stock one.. Then your shell deflector is the problem.

If not

Make sure your mags are GTG ( GI and Pmags have s*** out on me after a lot of use and induce malfunctions in various guns )

If your mags and shell deflector are fine, get a new extractor and extractor spring here, and or ejector.  I think it's smart to replace those parts after 5000+ rounds on any type of firearm including AR's and AK's.

https://iwi.us/product/tavor-singledouble-ejector-bolt-parts-kit-5-56-nato/
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 08:15:27 PM »

After reviewing your video more closely, I think your aftermarket shell deflector is the problem.  Is there a reason that you are using a different shell deflector?
It looks like the deflector is not giving a consistent pattern of ejection.  Your brass is going everywhere from 11 O-clock to 7 O-clock.
 The stock deflector on my X95 seems to eject much more consistently to my ~4:30 O-clock ( Right handed ejection ).

ETA two more things
1. I think it's cool the Tavor continued to work and just blew the case out.
2. How did you embed the youtube video here?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 08:22:08 PM by RabbitSlayer » Logged

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Leonitus
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 09:19:54 PM »

Rastoff


What shell deflector were you using?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 08:03:48 AM by Leonitus » Logged
Rastoff
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« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 12:33:34 AM »

Rabitslayer,
Yes, I agree that it's the shell deflector. However, I'm not concerned with fixing it. Going back to the stock deflector will probably fix it. I'm just curious if anyone else has seen a similar malfunction.

Leonitus,
I'm using a shell deflector of my own design. This is just part of the design process. It's fun having a 3D printer at your disposal.
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Leonitus
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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 08:06:33 AM »

Rastoff,

Guess I missed that point. Thanks for the clarification. Iím running the Perceval Armament deflector. Seems to run well.
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Rastoff
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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2017, 10:37:25 PM »

Ultimately, what I'm looking for is a deflector that will work better when you switch shoulders. Still in the works.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2017, 12:17:14 AM »

Ultimately, what I'm looking for is a deflector that will work better when you switch shoulders. Still in the works.

You can buy one of these, only 12 bucks.  I've heard people say good things about them, but I have no first hand experience.

https://www.bullpuparmory.com/product_p/pa-tavx95-shdef.htm
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Leonitus
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« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2017, 07:08:01 AM »

Ultimately, what I'm looking for is a deflector that will work better when you switch shoulders. Still in the works.


The Perceval deflector does just that.......itís the reason I bought and installed one
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waffleironskillet
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« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2017, 11:01:30 AM »

Seems like the people on this board identified your problem and even found you a suitable substitute brass deflector to meet your needs.

I will; however, point out that if you are concerned about competition/self-defense you should review how to clear stovepipes because tap-rack-bang is not the way to go, as you have seen with the double feed.  Now I did my own search on the internet for you and unfortunately you do see a lot of people saying tap-rack-bang.  Not sure where these people are getting this from, but it is wrong.

Just clear the brass with a swipe/flick/punch/whatever then fire.  Unless you had some light recoil (suggesting a different problem) then the bolt will have travelled all the way back and pushed another round up and into the chamber.  The stovepiped brass will just prevent the bolt from fully going into battery so tap-rack-bang will just feed another round behind the round already in the chamber.
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Rastoff
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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2017, 02:58:28 PM »

The Perceval deflector does just that.......itís the reason I bought and installed one
No, not quite what I'm looking for. Yes, I have tried it.

Seems like the people on this board identified your problem and even found you a suitable substitute brass deflector to meet your needs.
Again, I know what the problem is. I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced it. It sounds like you haven't.


I will; however, point out that if you are concerned about competition/self-defense you should review how to clear stovepipes because tap-rack-bang is not the way to go, as you have seen with the double feed.  Now I did my own search on the internet for you and unfortunately you do see a lot of people saying tap-rack-bang.  Not sure where these people are getting this from, but it is wrong.

Just clear the brass with a swipe/flick/punch/whatever then fire.  Unless you had some light recoil (suggesting a different problem) then the bolt will have travelled all the way back and pushed another round up and into the chamber.  The stovepiped brass will just prevent the bolt from fully going into battery so tap-rack-bang will just feed another round behind the round already in the chamber.
This is exactly why I started this thread. This is not a "stovepipe" (Type II) malfunction, but something completely different.

With an AR, a Type II or stovepipe means the round didn't fully eject. Because it didn't eject, it didn't load another round either. In this case, a tap-rack-assess is the proper fix. However, in this particular case with the X95, it loaded a round in the chamber, but also caught the spent brass. That's a completely different scenario. I've seen a lot of Type II malfunctions with ARs, but never seen this type of malfunction. This has only ever happened with the X95.

Indeed, in this case, flicking the brass out would be the right way to go. Of course you don't know if there's a round in the chamber or not. You'll find out when the trigger is pressed. Then a quick rack will load if one wasn't in the chamber.
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Leonitus
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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2017, 07:03:04 PM »

Ok,.......the Percival deflector works for me.....left or right shooting.
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Rastoff
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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2017, 08:24:48 PM »

It doesn't deflect down. The stock deflector works fine if I'm very conscious of where I put my cheek. However, if I let it go forward just a little, my chin/mouth gets hit by brass.

This is the beauty of the MDR and RDB. Of course the MDR hasn't been delivered yet and the RDB has had some issues with reliability. I'll stick with the X95. It does work off both shoulders and is super reliable. Unless you attempt to improve the design and end up making it worse. Wink
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2017, 08:52:04 PM »


The sun where I live gives sunburns really fast in summer and winter because of high altitude; after about an hour in the sun you will get roasted.  So I usually wear a face mask and a boonie hat when I go out, and even a long sleeve shirt in the summer or else my arms will get roasted :/
Anyway, the facemask alleviates any brass to chin when shooting lefty.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 12:33:00 AM by RabbitSlayer » Logged

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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2017, 09:00:34 PM »

BTW
Nice shooting OP, and thanks for sharing the video.
I love it seeing people focus on controlled pairs instead of wild double taps.
Always refreshing to see users post videos with good shooting technique, and good trigger/safety discipline.
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cciman
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2017, 12:10:42 PM »

It doesn't deflect down. The stock deflector works fine if I'm very conscious of where I put my cheek. However, if I let it go forward just a little, my chin/mouth gets hit by brass.

This is the beauty of the MDR and RDB. Of course the MDR hasn't been delivered yet and the RDB has had some issues with reliability. I'll stick with the X95. It does work off both shoulders and is super reliable. Unless you attempt to improve the design and end up making it worse. Wink

Percival bd, works great if I'm using the factory length of pull.  When I tried the Manticore, short butt pad, +Percival, the small difference in stock length put my chin into harms way for support side shooting, and left an ugly mark after repeated drills.

Back to IWI factory butt pad, + Percival = beauty face after a whole morning of switching sides around barriers.

Your face, arm length, and shooting style may vary from above experience.

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