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Author Topic: MDR kitting out  (Read 42420 times)
maleante
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« Reply #140 on: March 13, 2018, 08:22:03 PM »

I bought a Primary Arms Platinum 6-30x56mm with a 34mm main tube for a Ruger Precision Rifle. The tracking is perfect... I mean spot on! I shot it out to 600 yards dialing and redialing out to various ranges throughout the day with great results. I dialed it down to the 100 yard zero stop at the end of the day and it shot exactly to its original zero.

 Itís a mil on mil scope meaning it dials and reticle ranges in mils. Some scopes dial in mils yet their range finding is in MOA which makes no sense. Itís a first focal plane scope with HD glass and itís also made in the same exact factory as $3000+ scopes. It uses the same components at half the price. People should take a good look at it for a best value scope. You get a military grade HD scope with an AMAZING DECA reticle for around $1500. You could throw a big name sticker on it and sell it for $2500 or more all day long.

The Bushnell tracks nice but they use lower end glass. There is an article somewhere online where one of the designers admits to using lower end HD glass. There was a reason but I forget what it was. Check out some user reviews online and on YouTube. I did a ton of research and chose the Primary Arms because itís tough, crystal clear, and tracks. YouTube long range teacher and shooter Tiberius Rex did a year long test between the Primary Arms, Nightforce, and Vortex HD Gen 2. The Primary Arms was the only scope that didnít break or get damaged after a year of sub arctic to hot desert testing. I guess Vortex are like disposable lighters, they break all the time but Vortex has the best warranty around and they usually just send out a replacement. They purposely Jack up the cost of their scopes to cover their warranty policy.

Scopes
http://www.primaryarms.com/new-primary-arms-platinum-series-6-30x56-ffp-scope-with-deka-mil-reticle-pa6-30x56ffp-deka-ams

Test
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=915s&v=78WddKKgMZo


"Same exact components at half the cost". That's a false statement.

It may come from the same factory that produces other decent quality optics, but to claim it uses the "exact same components" is wrong.
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thehun
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« Reply #141 on: March 14, 2018, 08:24:58 AM »

How come people do not consider Meopta much?

I have a 1-4X on my BREN and it has the absolute clearest glass I have ever seen and the most robust construction...even though I am changing things up a bit and will be changing it out...the Meopta scopes are great equipment with premium German Schott glass (same as S&B) with Meopta's coatings.
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BullpupT
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« Reply #142 on: March 14, 2018, 08:50:46 AM »

I bought a Primary Arms Platinum 6-30x56mm with a 34mm main tube for a Ruger Precision Rifle. The tracking is perfect... I mean spot on! I shot it out to 600 yards dialing and redialing out to various ranges throughout the day with great results. I dialed it down to the 100 yard zero stop at the end of the day and it shot exactly to its original zero.

 Itís a mil on mil scope meaning it dials and reticle ranges in mils. Some scopes dial in mils yet their range finding is in MOA which makes no sense. Itís a first focal plane scope with HD glass and itís also made in the same exact factory as $3000+ scopes. It uses the same components at half the price. People should take a good look at it for a best value scope. You get a military grade HD scope with an AMAZING DECA reticle for around $1500. You could throw a big name sticker on it and sell it for $2500 or more all day long.

The Bushnell tracks nice but they use lower end glass. There is an article somewhere online where one of the designers admits to using lower end HD glass. There was a reason but I forget what it was. Check out some user reviews online and on YouTube. I did a ton of research and chose the Primary Arms because itís tough, crystal clear, and tracks. YouTube long range teacher and shooter Tiberius Rex did a year long test between the Primary Arms, Nightforce, and Vortex HD Gen 2. The Primary Arms was the only scope that didnít break or get damaged after a year of sub arctic to hot desert testing. I guess Vortex are like disposable lighters, they break all the time but Vortex has the best warranty around and they usually just send out a replacement. They purposely Jack up the cost of their scopes to cover their warranty policy.

Scopes
http://www.primaryarms.com/new-primary-arms-platinum-series-6-30x56-ffp-scope-with-deka-mil-reticle-pa6-30x56ffp-deka-ams

Test
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=915s&v=78WddKKgMZo


"Same exact components at half the cost". That's a false statement.

It may come from the same factory that produces other decent quality optics, but to claim it uses the "exact same components" is wrong.


From what I have heard a considerable cost of Nightforce scopes has to due with their Q.C. not their components. Nightforce has specific quality control measures that increase cost considerably. When you actually take the scopes apart you will see that they are very similar but not exactly the same. The components have the same quality ie the glass and erector assemblies. They just have different features.

I said you could throw a $2500 price tag on it with a name brand sticker on it and sell it all day. I stick by that statement as many other knowledgeable testers and reviewers have also echoed that same statement. Do a bit of research on the Platinum series and you will see that the glass, tubes, and erector assemblies are the same quality. The Vortex HD gen2 is around $2500 and has slightly different features yet the Primary Arms out performs it both in tracking and toughness. Check out Rexí videos he is a well respected extreme long range shooter and instructor how owns and test tier 1- tier 3 scopes. He chose the Primary Arms for is +$10,000 7mm/30mag custom rifle that he shoots will over 1.5 miles with. Sure the German stuff is better but when it comes to tier 2 scopes the Primary is hard to beat. You pay a grand more for Nightforce QC and name and you pay a grand more for Vortex warranties and name. The Primary Platinum is that good!
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 08:56:51 AM by BullpupT » Logged
cjgemm
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« Reply #143 on: March 14, 2018, 11:07:51 AM »

All NF FFP scopes are assembled in the USA.

Vortex gen 2 Razors come from LOW in Japan.  Upon arriving in the USA they are totally rebuilt with different internals @ Vortex.  The AMG is totally USA with the exception of the reticle that is sourced from Germany.

You might have been given some false information. ......
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BullpupT
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« Reply #144 on: March 14, 2018, 11:43:14 AM »

All NF FFP scopes are assembled in the USA.

Vortex gen 2 Razors come from LOW in Japan.  Upon arriving in the USA they are totally rebuilt with different internals @ Vortex.  The AMG is totally USA with the exception of the reticle that is sourced from Germany.

You might have been given some false information. ......

All NF use to be marked ďmade in USAĒ but some of their FFPís are now marked ď made in JapanĒ. Not sure if they are made in Japan now, but I have read and watch a few sources that indicate they might be Japanese now.

Nice little review
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/razor-hd-gen-2-vs-sig-sauer-tango-6.245589/page-2

Battle of the Japanese scopes
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=2119s&v=9GIlwKUHAys

Custom 2000 yard build with Primary Arms Platinum
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bRoLvzy2cTY
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 01:20:34 PM by BullpupT » Logged
maleante
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« Reply #145 on: March 14, 2018, 01:36:16 PM »

How come people do not consider Meopta much?

I have a 1-4X on my BREN and it has the absolute clearest glass I have ever seen and the most robust construction...even though I am changing things up a bit and will be changing it out...the Meopta scopes are great equipment with premium German Schott glass (same as S&B) with Meopta's coatings.

I also have quite a few different Meopta scopes. Their glass is extremely clear and bright. Would not hesitate to recommend Meopta to anyone. Also have Minox and Swarovski, both excellent choices. The only other scopes I have are SWFA SS and a Nikon Monarch 5 with their ED glass.

An Asian scope can be great, but certainly is not on par with good European offerings. My next scope purchase is another Meopta 4-16 ZD, followed by an SWFA 3-9 HD eventually.


Life is too short for s***ty glass that has a great warranty, because you'll need to use that warranty...
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Slateman
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« Reply #146 on: March 14, 2018, 02:08:49 PM »

The more I watch the ES 6.5CM vid,  the more I want two separate uppers with two different optics setups
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Sdevante
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« Reply #147 on: March 14, 2018, 02:16:07 PM »

The more I watch the ES 6.5CM vid,  the more I want two separate uppers with two different optics setups

Haven't been watching the vid but this is a good idea. I have a Vortex 1-6 for .308, and am kicking around the idea of getting a Vortex UH-1 for whenever the 5.56/2.23 kits come out. But having separate uppers would be a better way to do it.

Then again, separate uppers probably would end up meaning just buying a whole separate rifle Lol.
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cjgemm
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« Reply #148 on: March 14, 2018, 02:53:31 PM »

All NF FFP scopes are assembled in the USA.

Vortex gen 2 Razors come from LOW in Japan.  Upon arriving in the USA they are totally rebuilt with different internals @ Vortex.  The AMG is totally USA with the exception of the reticle that is sourced from Germany.

You might have been given some false information. ......

All NF use to be marked ďmade in USAĒ but some of their FFPís are now marked ď made in JapanĒ. Not sure if they are made in Japan now, but I have read and watch a few sources that indicate they might be Japanese now.

Nice little review
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/razor-hd-gen-2-vs-sig-sauer-tango-6.245589/page-2

Battle of the Japanese scopes
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=2119s&v=9GIlwKUHAys

Custom 2000 yard build with Primary Arms Platinum
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bRoLvzy2cTY

Per NF, all ATACR and BEAST optics are assembled in IDAHO.  I do beleive the parts come from LOW in Japan.
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BullpupT
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« Reply #149 on: March 14, 2018, 03:08:04 PM »

All NF FFP scopes are assembled in the USA.

Vortex gen 2 Razors come from LOW in Japan.  Upon arriving in the USA they are totally rebuilt with different internals @ Vortex.  The AMG is totally USA with the exception of the reticle that is sourced from Germany.

You might have been given some false information. ......

All NF use to be marked ďmade in USAĒ but some of their FFPís are now marked ď made in JapanĒ. Not sure if they are made in Japan now, but I have read and watch a few sources that indicate they might be Japanese now.

Nice little review
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/razor-hd-gen-2-vs-sig-sauer-tango-6.245589/page-2

Battle of the Japanese scopes
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=2119s&v=9GIlwKUHAys

Custom 2000 yard build with Primary Arms Platinum
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bRoLvzy2cTY

Per NF, all ATACR and BEAST optics are assembled in IDAHO.  I do beleive the parts come from LOW in Japan.

👍🏻 Thanks for the info
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Sawdustshot
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« Reply #150 on: March 14, 2018, 08:04:00 PM »

So, this time mounted a 5 slot Magpul MLok rail section.  Just in case I have more handguard issues, hopefully the below will show:
1.  There is in fact locking compound on the screws (my prior 3 slot MII still has Loc-Tite on it, but anyways ... ).
I can't believe this didn't occur to me when you first posted pictures of your cracked hand guard. Regular threadlocker, the stuff with methacrylate, is antagonistic to ABS and polycarbonate; the contaminated area becomes brittle and weak. If the handguard polymer contains either, such as a PA-ABS or PA-PC blend, then the loc-tite you applied caused the hand guard to crack. If it is, DT needs to let customer know. It would also mean you just borked another handguard.
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rtp
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« Reply #151 on: March 15, 2018, 12:02:46 AM »

So, this time mounted a 5 slot Magpul MLok rail section.  Just in case I have more handguard issues, hopefully the below will show:
1.  There is in fact locking compound on the screws (my prior 3 slot MII still has Loc-Tite on it, but anyways ... ).
I can't believe this didn't occur to me when you first posted pictures of your cracked hand guard. Regular threadlocker, the stuff with methacrylate, is antagonistic to ABS and polycarbonate; the contaminated area becomes brittle and weak. If the handguard polymer contains either, such as a PA-ABS or PA-PC blend, then the loc-tite you applied caused the hand guard to crack. If it is, DT needs to let customer know. It would also mean you just borked another handguard.

So THAT would be interesting, and something I haven't thought about.  If I got the old handguard back, I'd do some testing on it, but alas, I don't.  I'm curious as to how much Loc-tite to cause any issues, however, as it's not like the handguard got 'dunked' or coated, although going from the bottom of a 30ml squeeze bottle vs syringe will almost always have a bit more than needed.

The rail section I put on was pre-threadsealed from Magpul, and looks to be more of an epoxy/putty type vs normal Loc-Tite, and considering this one itself is a polymer rail, I'm going to assume it shouldn't be a concern...
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Chief Master
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« Reply #152 on: March 15, 2018, 12:49:31 AM »

How come people do not consider Meopta much?

I have a 1-4X on my BREN and it has the absolute clearest glass I have ever seen and the most robust construction...even though I am changing things up a bit and will be changing it out...the Meopta scopes are great equipment with premium German Schott glass (same as S&B) with Meopta's coatings.

I also have quite a few different Meopta scopes. Their glass is extremely clear and bright. Would not hesitate to recommend Meopta to anyone. Also have Minox and Swarovski, both excellent choices. The only other scopes I have are SWFA SS and a Nikon Monarch 5 with their ED glass.

An Asian scope can be great, but certainly is not on par with good European offerings. My next scope purchase is another Meopta 4-16 ZD, followed by an SWFA 3-9 HD eventually.

Life is too short for s***ty glass that has a great warranty, because you'll need to use that warranty...

Man, I was all set on getting a Kahles K16i, and now you two have me seriously looking at Meopta. The eyebox and FOV on the Kahles are real selling points to me, though; do you know how the Meopta compares?
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Sawdustshot
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« Reply #153 on: March 15, 2018, 01:01:48 AM »

So THAT would be interesting, and something I haven't thought about.  If I got the old handguard back, I'd do some testing on it, but alas, I don't.  I'm curious as to how much Loc-tite to cause any issues, however, as it's not like the handguard got 'dunked' or coated, although going from the bottom of a 30ml squeeze bottle vs syringe will almost always have a bit more than needed.

The rail section I put on was pre-threadsealed from Magpul, and looks to be more of an epoxy/putty type vs normal Loc-Tite, and considering this one itself is a polymer rail, I'm going to assume it shouldn't be a concern...

You don't need to get much on there for bad things to happen; it spreads out into the polymer where it makes contact. Here you can see the damage that resulted just from contaminating the walls of the bolt holes (not my pic).

The damage in the picture you posted originally looks like what I'd expect from any squeeze out between the rail and nut. Not all polymers are vulnerable to threadlocker, e.g. plain nylon and PEEK. I think all of Magpul's stuff is some grade of glass reinforced nylon.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 01:38:41 AM by Sawdustshot » Logged
EWTHeckman
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« Reply #154 on: March 15, 2018, 01:04:23 AM »

Ack! Giant Picture Alert!!   Shocked  Shocked

Please, shrink your picture.

Edit: Oh, you're already on it. Please disregard.  Grin
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 01:06:48 AM by EWTHeckman » Logged
kfeltenberger
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« Reply #155 on: March 15, 2018, 02:45:49 AM »

Man, I was all set on getting a Kahles K16i, and now you two have me seriously looking at Meopta. The eyebox and FOV on the Kahles are real selling points to me, though; do you know how the Meopta compares?

The only issues with the Kahles K16i are:  Kahles doesn't offer a K18i.  IMO, of course. When I was at Euro Optics the day I bought mine, I looked at a lot of competing optics in that class (1-6x), and none of them could compare to the Kahles. I was up there again right after Thanksgiving and I still didn't find something that checked the boxes as well as the Kahles.
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Kurt
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« Reply #156 on: March 15, 2018, 10:27:16 PM »

Man, I was all set on getting a Kahles K16i, and now you two have me seriously looking at Meopta. The eyebox and FOV on the Kahles are real selling points to me, though; do you know how the Meopta compares?
The only issues with the Kahles K16i are:  Kahles doesn't offer a K18i.  IMO, of course. When I was at Euro Optics the day I bought mine, I looked at a lot of competing optics in that class (1-6x), and none of them could compare to the Kahles. I was up there again right after Thanksgiving and I still didn't find something that checked the boxes as well as the Kahles.

The Kahles certainly looks like a stellar optic. But the Meopta 1-6 is several hundred dollars less, and I like the illumination dial on the Meopta (set increments with "off" setting in between them) better than on the Kahles (continuous rheostat). If its eyebox and FOV are at all comparable to the K16i, I might try to save a chunk of change and go with the Meopta.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #157 on: March 15, 2018, 10:32:27 PM »

The Kahles certainly looks like a stellar optic. But the Meopta 1-6 is several hundred dollars less, and I like the illumination dial on the Meopta (set increments with "off" setting in between them) better than on the Kahles (continuous rheostat). If its eyebox and FOV are at all comparable to the K16i, I might try to save a chunk of change and go with the Meopta.

Can't say that I'm really a fan of the Meopta's reticle; it's a simple dot and crosshair, which doesn't do a whole lot for me.  I like the extra capabilities that the Kahles reticles offer.  Ideally, they'd offer the Plumb reticle, but I've waited long enough for my MDR to arrive, I'm not going to get my hopes up for something else.
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Kurt
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« Reply #158 on: March 16, 2018, 02:29:20 AM »

Can't say that I'm really a fan of the Meopta's reticle; it's a simple dot and crosshair, which doesn't do a whole lot for me.  I like the extra capabilities that the Kahles reticles offer.  Ideally, they'd offer the Plumb reticle, but I've waited long enough for my MDR to arrive, I'm not going to get my hopes up for something else.

I would have written off the Meopta for the same reason, but now theyíre available with a decent-looking BDC reticle.
https://www.eurooptic.com/Meopta-Meostar-R2-1-6X24-BDC-3.aspx

For me, it really comes down to whether the eyebox/FOV justifies the jump to the Kahles.
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maleante
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« Reply #159 on: March 16, 2018, 10:43:05 AM »

I can't comment on the kahles, but would add that until you look through Meopta glass, I wouldn't write it off yet. The glass is that good.
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