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Author Topic: Tried and true versus new and innovative. AUG vs. RDB  (Read 1982 times)
Clarke-Sensei
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« on: September 17, 2017, 05:29:25 AM »

So, I'm stuck on the fence between two opposites right now. As the title may imply, I'm looking into either picking up an AUG or an RDB. I'm an absolute sucker for simple innovation, and the Kel-Tec fits that ideal. Yet, I have a hard time convincing myself on settling on one due to the chance of landing a lemon. I know Kel-Tec's been improving, but I want to pick one rifle and really don't want to deal with having to get it fixed up not long after getting one.

Conversely, I do love the feel of an AUG, and I know that I'm getting a solid rifle straight from the get go. Plus, I love the integrated optic set up. I have no issues with heavy triggers, and actually prefer them due to having tremors that make light triggers rather twitchy for me.

I'm not a lefty and I doubt I'd ever shoot from my weak shoulder so ambidextrous operation isn't extremely important to me. Ultimately, this is me asking you guys what you would prefer to pick up, or if you have one or even both of them, some of your personal points that set it above the other option.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 05:52:36 AM by Clarke-Sensei » Logged
paulky_2000
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2017, 07:50:26 AM »

I vote RDB because I've never really liked the AUGs.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2017, 01:45:13 PM »

What is your intended goal or ultimate "mission" for the rifle?  If you're looking for a range toy and perhaps a "bump in the night" gun and nothing more, the RDB will meet the criteria.  On the other paw, if you're looking for something to carry you through a crisis situation like the two recent hurricanes, some other extended natural disaster, or other extended without rule of law situation, then the AUG wins hands down.  It isn't that the RDB *couldn't* do it, it's just that the AUG has a better track record, has been continually improved, parts are readily available from the manufacturer, and it's been carried in Harm's Way since 1977. 

In short, the AUG offers proven reliability and more importantly, peace of mind that the RDB just can't match.

The AUG is extremely robust, you don't have little bits and bobs on the stock or grip that you have to worry about potentially breaking off as you do with the RDB, and overall the rifle feels solid where, to me at least, the RDB feels much less solid.

In the end, don't buy on emotion, buy analytically.  Bullet point the plusses and minuses of each and compare them.  Then, buy the best one that works for you.
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Kurt
Clarke-Sensei
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2017, 01:52:12 PM »

What is your intended goal or ultimate "mission" for the rifle?  If you're looking for a range toy and perhaps a "bump in the night" gun and nothing more, the RDB will meet the criteria.  On the other paw, if you're looking for something to carry you through a crisis situation like the two recent hurricanes, some other extended natural disaster, or other extended without rule of law situation, then the AUG wins hands down.  It isn't that the RDB *couldn't* do it, it's just that the AUG has a better track record, has been continually improved, parts are readily available from the manufacturer, and it's been carried in Harm's Way since 1977.  

In short, the AUG offers proven reliability and more importantly, peace of mind that the RDB just can't match.

The AUG is extremely robust, you don't have little bits and bobs on the stock or grip that you have to worry about potentially breaking off as you do with the RDB, and overall the rifle feels solid where, to me at least, the RDB feels much less solid.

In the end, don't buy on emotion, buy analytically.  Bullet point the plusses and minuses of each and compare them.  Then, buy the best one that works for you.
What I am looking to do with the rifle is pretty much an all around rifle. Range toy, and in the extreme off chance something goes down here (Won't be dealing with a hurricane in this AZ heat). I just don't put enough stock in a SHTF/WROL situation to buy purely on reliability alone. Just thinking on it more pushes me to the AUG though.

I guess the next big issue is figuring out what color AUG to rock .
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 02:01:07 PM by Clarke-Sensei » Logged
BullpupT
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2017, 02:15:35 PM »

Go with the AUG. It has proven itself in the field under adverse conditions since the late 1970's. It's light and accurate with a known track record. There are upgrades that can be made to the trigger and aftermarket support is higher.

The RDB is both light and accurate, but the chamber is hard to access and the quality of the components can be questioned. The barrel is no where near the AUG in terms of quality and longevity. The RBD uses a simple and cheap to produce 4140 steel barrel. The AUGs barrel is cold hammer forged and much longer lasting. Keltec could switch to 4150 steel at a slightly higher cost and increase life and toughness even without cold hammer forging, although a cold hammer forged barrel would still be superior.

Go with the AUG all the way. Take a look at Keltec quality control complaints over the decades. Check out their return for repair rate. Check out the customer complaints as well. The internet is a wonderful thing... the truth is out there. Grin Wink
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Clarke-Sensei
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2017, 02:25:04 PM »

Go with the AUG. It has proven itself in the field under adverse conditions since the late 1970's. It's light and accurate with a known track record. There are upgrades that can be made to the trigger and aftermarket support is higher.

The RDB is both light and accurate, but the chamber is hard to access and the quality of the components can be questioned. The barrel is no where near the AUG in terms of quality and longevity. The RBD uses a simple and cheap to produce 4140 steel barrel. The AUGs barrel is cold hammer forged and much longer lasting. Keltec could switch to 4150 steel at a slightly higher cost and increase life and toughness even without cold hammer forging, although a cold hammer forged barrel would still be superior.

Go with the AUG all the way. Take a look at Keltec quality control complaints over the decades. Check out their return for repair rate. Check out the customer complaints as well. The internet is a wonderful thing... the truth is out there. Grin Wink

Funnily enough, I've taken the Kel-Tec gamble before and came out with a solid KSG that hasn't given me issues in the slightest. It's the reason why I'd be willing to run that gamble again, and I can appreciate Kel-Tec for what they are. Innovative but not the most refined firearms available.
That said, I will likely pick the Steyr. I am a compulsive over-thinker, and this is a situation where I would need to cut out as much thinking as possible.
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Hivedr.
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2017, 03:03:51 PM »

So, I'm stuck on the fence between two opposites right now. As the title may imply, I'm looking into either picking up an AUG or an RDB. I'm an absolute sucker for simple innovation, and the Kel-Tec fits that ideal. Yet, I have a hard time convincing myself on settling on one due to the chance of landing a lemon. I know Kel-Tec's been improving, but I want to pick one rifle and really don't want to deal with having to get it fixed up not long after getting one.

Conversely, I do love the feel of an AUG, and I know that I'm getting a solid rifle straight from the get go. Plus, I love the integrated optic set up. I have no issues with heavy triggers, and actually prefer them due to having tremors that make light triggers rather twitchy for me.

I'm not a lefty and I doubt I'd ever shoot from my weak shoulder so ambidextrous operation isn't
extremely important to me. Ultimately, this is me asking you guys what you would prefer to pick up, or if you have one or even both of them, some of your personal points that set it above the other option.

Big price difference between these two for a reason.

The quality in materials and fit / finish all go to the AUG. The AUG will last well into the 10s of thousands
or rounds without parts replacements, the RDB? For this the AUG wins the "one rifle" situation over the RDB.

On looks the AUG is old but still has clean lines, the RDB has a more modern "industrial" tough look. So for me the RDB wins on looks.

So for looks the RDB, for a fighting rifle the AUG.

My .02

    
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 04:52:00 PM by Hivedr. » Logged
Clarke-Sensei
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2017, 03:12:48 PM »


On looks the AUG is old but still has clean lines, the RDB has a more modern "industrial" tough look. So for me the RDB wins on looks.
     

I gotta say, the only time I thought the RDB had better aesthetics is when it has the Raptor Rail. Other than that, the flow of the AUG's design just beats the rather clunky looking forend.
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ttarp
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2017, 04:20:43 PM »

I'd go with an AUG, but thats because I had to have one ever since Die Hard.

If I could look at it more objectively, I'd be sorely tempted by the Kel-Tec, its hard to argue against the price  Even if the quality of build isn't anywhere near Steyr standards, you aren't looking to arm a small(or large) country, and like you, I appreciate Kel-Tec's "innovative" designs, granted some aren't executed as well as they could be.

I really do like the modularity of the AUG though...

I think the right answer in these situations is both, the question: which first.
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Frostburg
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 12:23:39 AM »

I've owned both.

While I love the RDB and believe it has more real world potential than any other tactical 5.56 rifle on the market today, if you are intending this rifle for "serious" use. I would go with the AUG.  AUGs are solid rifles that can handle "hell and back" wartime conditions. They are some tough rifles.

Outside of such severe conditions, the RDB wins out on every metric. It's MUCH lighter, faster to get on target, better balanced, faster controls/reloads, field strips easier (imo), has just as much access to the chamber as the AUG, better trigger, but long enough pull to not be a major issue with a tremor. Overall, it just handles better than the AUG.  If you don't get a lemon, you should be fine. The RDB is actually a fairly reliable rifle, provided you don't have a lemon, and if that's the case. You should know within 200 rounds.
Keltec has an unlimited lifetime warranty for original owners. So if you buy one, you can shoot then hell out of it to try to make something break, and get it serviced if needed.

I sold my AUG because I hated the way you have to reposition your support hand to drop a magazine. I'm just more comfortable releasing the magazine with my trigger hand, still on the pistol grip.

For you needs (more casual, but also need to rely upon it for your life), I would be comfortable with an RDB, provided you test it with some endurance shooting first to make sure that it's gtg.  

My RDB had some issues with the extractor pin falling out. It was a known issue, and Keltec redesigned the bolt in order to fix it. When I got it back with the new bolt, I put 250 rounds through it rapid-fire without stopping to let it cool. The rifle got very hot, but still ran like a champ.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 12:27:57 AM by Frostburg » Logged
Clarke-Sensei
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2017, 02:46:04 AM »

I highly doubt I'll ever really need it for any serious use, and some more reading keeps pushing me to jump for the RDB. Plus, the price difference would really allow me to get things I'd like for the RDB, while the AUG would be pretty much set up from the get go.

Just wish I didn't have an astigmatism cause I'd love to get a C-More railway for it



« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 03:35:27 AM by Clarke-Sensei » Logged
Frostburg
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« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2017, 11:15:44 AM »

Yeah, there have been numerous people who's RDBs have run perfect. It is a reliable rifle overall. Based on what you're describing I would say go ahead and get the RDB. The AUG has AK level durability and reliability. You can haul it under water in the atlantic ocean and be confident that it will run, but for your uses, it isn't necessary. The RDB simply handles better in every way. If
you lived anywhere near Western MD, I would be happy to let you handle mine just so you could familiarize yourself with it before you get it, but honestly most people who have bought one have loved them.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 12:41:13 PM »

Aug > RDB
Tavor > RDB

Even my target rifles have no leeway, it has to function 100% or I don't keep it.  For the price of an RDB you could build a killer match grade AR in any configuration that will be easier to work on and make function reliably.  I'm not even that fond of direct impingment, but it's so easy to build an AR however you want and utterly reliable that it's foolish to overlook. 
The RDB has great ideas, absolutely, but it executed them poorly which isn't to be surprised because keltec.


Personally I prefer the TavorX95 over the Aug by a pretty large margin.  However the Aug is a great weapon, and in my opinion the RDB is not even near the same league as Aug.   Comparing the Rdb to an Aug is like comparing a Delton to a Colt, or a Ras47 to an Arsenal.
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Clarke-Sensei
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« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2017, 01:55:51 PM »

Yeah, there have been numerous people who's RDBs have run perfect. It is a reliable rifle overall. Based on what you're describing I would say go ahead and get the RDB. The AUG has AK level durability and reliability. You can haul it under water in the atlantic ocean and be confident that it will run, but for your uses, it isn't necessary. The RDB simply handles better in every way. If
you lived anywhere near Western MD, I would be happy to let you handle mine just so you could familiarize yourself with it before you get it, but honestly most people who have bought one have loved them.
Wish I could take you up on that, but I'm in AZ. I've gotten to handle an RDB, and did find it very comfy. Just didn't care for the handguard, which would be solved by getting that Raptor rail.

Aug > RDB
Tavor > RDB

Even my target rifles have no leeway, it has to function 100% or I don't keep it.  For the price of an RDB you could build a killer match grade AR in any configuration that will be easier to work on and make function reliably.  I'm not even that fond of direct impingment, but it's so easy to build an AR however you want and utterly reliable that it's foolish to overlook. 
The RDB has great ideas, absolutely, but it executed them poorly which isn't to be surprised because keltec.


Personally I prefer the TavorX95 over the Aug by a pretty large margin.  However the Aug is a great weapon, and in my opinion the RDB is not even near the same league as Aug.   Comparing the Rdb to an Aug is like comparing a Delton to a Colt, or a Ras47 to an Arsenal.

I've used ARs, but I just don't care for them. Sure, they are cheap and easy to build however I'd want, but they aren't my cup of tea. I've just spent most of my time behind a bullpup, and I'd like to keep to what I'm used to.

The Tavor and X-95 do nothing for me. I think the only thing I like on them over the AUG is the mag release, but that is a training issue that I haven't been able to put some time into on the AUG. The Tavor that I had a chance to use was functional, but the trigger was mushy and heavier than the AUG triggers I've been able to mess with. I'm not willing to spend several hundred dollars to pick up a better trigger pack.
Plus, I would prefer having a adjustable gas system, which is a big point that I stress in semi-auto rifles.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 02:09:17 PM »

Stock Tavor X95 trigger > Aug trigger

Tavor X95 300blk has an adjustable gas block.

I don't knock you for wanting an Aug though.  Great guns.  Definetly grab an Aug over an Rdb.



In regards to Aug vs Tavor, I think they are equally reliable and such.. Just user preference.  RDB is not in the same league as Tavor or Aug.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 02:15:32 PM by RabbitSlayer » Logged

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Clarke-Sensei
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« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2017, 02:14:20 PM »

Stock Tavor X95 trigger > Aug trigger

Tavor X95 300blk has an adjustable gas block.

I don't knock you for wanting an Aug though.  Great guns.  Definetly grab an Aug over an Rdb.



In regards to Aug vs Tavor, I think they are equally reliable and such.. Just user preference.  RDB is not in the same league as Tavor or Aug.
Sometimes I wish I could make a decision on one simple thing like that. The X-95 just isn't to my tastes. It felt cheaper than an RDB, which felt better besides the handguard. I'm also not a trigger snob, I can learn to work with whatever trigger I get, if the firearm itself is worth the effort to me.
I'm not really looking into .300 Blackout, which nullifies that for me.
Ultimately, I'm not an operator, and I have no plans to go into any combat scenario. I'm sure I could come to accept the RDB as reliable if I pick one up, I've had good experience with Kel-Tecs so far.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 02:21:56 PM by Clarke-Sensei » Logged
RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2017, 02:17:47 PM »

Stock Tavor X95 trigger > Aug trigger

Tavor X95 300blk has an adjustable gas block.

I don't knock you for wanting an Aug though.  Great guns.  Definetly grab an Aug over an Rdb.



In regards to Aug vs Tavor, I think they are equally reliable and such.. Just user preference.  RDB is not in the same league as Tavor or Aug.
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Frostburg
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« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2017, 02:45:19 PM »

Based on what you're describing, I would say the RDB is perfect for you. It handles great and seems to be Keltec's best executed product thus far. I would disagree with the statement that the RDB has been executed poorly. They have had some teething issues, and parts updates have been made, but overall, the RDB is proving a successful design.  Like I said, the AUG is a serious real deal rifle that is built like a tank and can standup to pretty much anything on the planet, but that is unrealistic for nearly any civilian or even standard LEOs. AR15s don't even approach the durability of an AUG. But you are paying a premium for durability that you will likely never need, unless you are conducting deep underwater incursions from the ocean into enemy territory, and all for inferior handling and controls when compared to the RDB. Aftermarket rails are soon becoming available for the RDB and I have a Raptor rail for mine. If you like the Tavor magazine release, you will like the RDB magazine release. I even find it better because I have skinny hands.
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Clarke-Sensei
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« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2017, 03:34:57 PM »

This whole discussion makes me wish Steyr and Kel-Tec could work together to make a premium RDB. Granted, it would be more expensive, but Kel-Tec's innovation with Steyr's quality and reputation behind it would be a killer combo. Add in a slightly more adjustable AUG gas regulator, and a model of it that uses the AUG mags, I'd be a happy camper.
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Frostburg
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« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2017, 03:42:06 PM »

Lol, I have argued this very point. I agree completely.
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