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Author Topic: BUIS Question  (Read 564 times)
ricklee4570
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« on: September 13, 2017, 07:51:35 AM »

I just purchased a used Tavor SAR. I am new to this rifle (AR-15 owner for many many years). No idea when mine was made, the previous owner claims he bought it new a year ago (said he paid $1,700 for it). Says he put exactly 100 rounds through it.

Everything I have read says that the Tavor has flip up back up iron sights. Mine does not. There are no sights integrated into the picatinny rail. 

Was there an option to purchase the Tavor without any back up sights? Or did this guy switch out rails? Thanks for any help!
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Tvfreakarms
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 08:01:43 AM »

Do u have a pic of it?
It does come with integrated buis.
The previous owner must of got an aftermarket rail.
Why didn't this person give you all the oem parts?
1700 is about the right price.
The sar tavor game into the market around 2012 or 2013

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

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xdmikey
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« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 08:57:44 AM »

Contact the seller and ask for the purchase riginal rail.

After going with the tav-d trigger pack I was able to hit the steel at 200 yds using the buis.
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ricklee4570
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 09:13:29 AM »

I finally contacted the original owner and he said he did in fact purchase a long rail from "Gear Head Works" and replaced the original.  When I asked him why he said the Gear Head Works rail allowed him to use any optics he wanted. This seems strange to me, as wouldnt the original rail allow for the same?  What advantage does the aftermarket rail have?
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ricklee4570
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 09:48:31 AM »

Okay, seems I have found some answers. He wanted a higher cheek weld (was using a red dot scope). Makes sense now.
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fatty
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 10:42:00 AM »

A higher cheek weld was a must for me.  Because it's so low I couldn't torque my head enough to even get a sight picture on the stock irons.

I have two 1/2" risers on my top rail (away from the disassembly bolts) which have a set of Samson folding BUIS and a trijicon RM01.  Lightweight and perfect for what I want.

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cciman
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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2017, 06:29:54 PM »

The stock irons seemed too low for me too, untill I attended a IWI class-- there I was shown that the stock irons were in fact not too low and I did not need a additional riser for the (AR height) red dot.

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Leonitus
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« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2017, 06:39:24 PM »

Wow


I've been shooting the M16/AR for 32 years. Recently bought a SAR, found the factory BUIS to be the perfect height, I have also found that I can run optics, pulled straight off my ARs and they are PERFECT for the Tavor.  I'm confused as to why the seller needed a higher rail. Why not just get a higher optic mount or correct your chin weld to a cheek weld?
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fatty
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2017, 07:01:39 PM »

I guess i have large cheek bones that dont allow a comfortable cheek weld at stock rail height.  I opt for lower 1/3 mounts on my ARs so i guess its only natural that the tavor would be very low for me.

The 1/2" risers allow me to add buis to the correct height so i can cowitness and maintain the same position should my RMR go down.

The downside is a 4" height over bore, but zero'd at 100yards is still perfectly good to go.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

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fatty
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2017, 07:07:31 PM »

The stock irons seemed too low for me too, untill I attended a IWI class-- there I was shown that the stock irons were in fact not too low and I did not need a additional riser for the (AR height) red dot.
You have me lost here...  what did IWI show you that made the rail height OK after initially finding it too low? 

I literally could not see a proper sight picture without cramming my face into the stock into an awkward position...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

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Leonitus
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2017, 08:37:02 AM »

I did not consider the idea that skeletal structure could have an influence. No idea why I didn't think of that.
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fatty
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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2017, 11:52:06 AM »

You're making me feel like the elephant man now...  i swear i have a normal size face lol
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Leonitus
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« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2017, 12:50:00 PM »

Awe jeez........
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fatty
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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2017, 01:37:08 PM »

 rolf
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Leonitus
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« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2017, 02:37:26 PM »

Apology is a sign of weakness........so, ya won't hear me say that.

 Grin
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cciman
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« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2017, 06:50:52 PM »

The stock irons seemed too low for me too, untill I attended a IWI class-- there I was shown that the stock irons were in fact not too low and I did not need a additional riser for the (AR height) red dot.
You have me lost here...  what did IWI show you that made the rail height OK after initially finding it too low? 

I literally could not see a proper sight picture without cramming my face into the stock into an awkward position...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk



I also have what I thought to be a large head, wide face, and wide papillary distance, but after zeroing the pop up IS from what I thought to be ridiculously low for my face (I even complained to the instructor that this wasn't going to work, and grumbled when he MADE me take off my 1/2" riser off my RDS), and using the aimpoint Pro at AR height all that weekend, now it seems natural.  Conclusion is....I must have been cheek welding improperly prior to the course, and now, it is natural.

So the question everyone should ask: why did the IDF/IWI use the BUIS sight height that they do?  Do the Israelis have narrow faces?

If you like chin welds like AK's with folding sights, and head perfectly up, this is something to get used to.

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fatty
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« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2017, 07:04:26 PM »

So the instructors answer was just to get it done and deal with it...

Still dont understand what youre saying was taught or passed on by that instructor.  Ive shot rifles of all sorts for years and never encountered this.

Im sure GHW and MI make raised rails for good reason lol

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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2017, 05:08:18 AM »

I think the problem/ whatever when the Sight height is how people shoulder it.
If you put the gun all the way Down into your shoulder, cheekweld is too low...
If you put it Higher into your shoulder, so maybe an inch of two of the stock is above your shoulder it's perfect cheekweld.

I bring the gun to my eyes when I shoulder it, I don't move my head when I aim....  I bring the gun to my eyes.. same with pistols, this is how I was trained. 

Tilting head to find sight picture = bad
Bringing sights/gun into alignment to your eyes = good


Now, the thing is everyone has different bodies, some people have giraffe neck, some have pug neck.  And that is where different rail height is nice.

Personally, stock rail is perfect for me.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2017, 05:10:58 AM »

Manticore curved buttpad makes perfect cheekweld more intuitive fwiw
 2 cents

Either way, op your rifle is fine.  Shoot the piss out of it and enjoy.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2017, 05:18:30 AM »

The stock irons seemed too low for me too, untill I attended a IWI class-- there I was shown that the stock irons were in fact not too low and I did not need a additional riser for the (AR height) red dot.
You have me lost here...  what did IWI show you that made the rail height OK after initially finding it too low? 

I literally could not see a proper sight picture without cramming my face into the stock into an awkward position...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk



 
So the question everyone should ask: why did the IDF/IWI use the BUIS sight height that they do? 










They engineered it perfectly to cheekweld correctly to how they train their soldiers to shoot.

I imagine this is because they train their soldiers to raise their weapons to the line of sight of their eyes.
You look at your Target and you bring your gun up to interface with your eyes and the target.

Many people INCORRECTLY adjust their head to line up sights, which is bad form.  Americans probably shoulder the weapon too low and cause this to happen with Tavor would be my thought.  I know that the American butt pad that came with my x95 caused me to do this sometimes, the manticore curved buttpad completely eliminated the issue for me.
Btw, the irons on the Tavor are perfect cowitness with AR optics.  The Israelis did their homework, and engineered this Gun for soldiers to use in combat.  They designed it exactly how it should be.

Regardless if your cheek weld is 2 feet high or 1 inch high, people need to bring the gun into their line of sight and not bring their line of sight into their gun.



If anyone thinks I'm full of s***, ask any state certified firearms instructor.
 
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 05:27:51 AM by RabbitSlayer » Logged
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