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| | |-+  Can Western Civilization invent a rifle as reliable as the AK? Not so sure.
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Author Topic: Can Western Civilization invent a rifle as reliable as the AK? Not so sure.  (Read 44070 times)
EWTHeckman
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« Reply #160 on: September 15, 2017, 09:47:09 AM »

Are we done yet?
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7n6
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« Reply #161 on: September 15, 2017, 12:52:44 PM »

Are we done yet?


Not until we force the firearms industry to adopt some basic reliability and durability standards.

7n6

 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 01:40:10 PM by 7n6 » Logged
EWTHeckman
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« Reply #162 on: September 15, 2017, 01:03:32 PM »

I meant, "are we done with this thread yet?" I suspect you understood that, yet chose to take it differently.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #163 on: September 15, 2017, 01:53:38 PM »


I don't think the...

And this is the root cause of the discussion.  You are relying on personal opinion and bias rather than observed tests in controlled environments to specific and repeatable metrics.  Do you think those idiots who throw their rifles off the roof, drive over them with a truck, or do otherwise stupid things with them are going to show you the failures? 

Pull the NATO test criteria, get an M-4 and an AK and send them to HP White and have them do independent testing and then look at the results.  I think you'll be quite surprised.
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Kurt
7n6
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« Reply #164 on: September 15, 2017, 02:27:02 PM »



And this is the root cause of the discussion.  You are relying on personal opinion and bias rather than observed tests in controlled environments to specific and repeatable metrics.  Do you think those idiots who throw their rifles off the roof, drive over them with a truck, or do otherwise stupid things with them are going to show you the failures?  

Pull the NATO test criteria, get an M-4 and an AK and send them to HP White and have them do independent testing and then look at the results.  I think you'll be quite surprised.


Can the M4 fire underwater or partially submerged? No. Then no reason for further testing.


7n6
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 05:51:13 PM by 7n6 » Logged
RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #165 on: September 15, 2017, 06:46:33 PM »

 LOL
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Clarke-Sensei
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« Reply #166 on: September 15, 2017, 06:53:36 PM »

Can someone lock this thread? It's practically a roundabout argument that isn't fruitful for anyone.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #167 on: September 15, 2017, 06:55:37 PM »

Can the M4 fire underwater or partially submerged? No. Then no reason for further testing.

What's the big deal with asking if the rifle can do something that's meaningless?  Are the Navy SEALs having to deal with zombie sharks to get to their targets now?

Seriously, 7n6, the cogent points you make are completely undermined by the farcical and ludicrous requirements you demand.
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Kurt
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« Reply #168 on: September 15, 2017, 07:03:12 PM »

Can someone lock this thread? It's practically a roundabout argument that isn't fruitful for anyone.

It's our own version of Bart vs. the Hamster...

https://youtu.be/SVBR3mo9RKA
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Kurt
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« Reply #169 on: September 15, 2017, 07:21:43 PM »

Are we done yet?

Which is better
9 vs 45 ?
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''The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.''
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xpdchief
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« Reply #170 on: September 15, 2017, 07:32:49 PM »

Are we done yet?

Which is better
9 vs 45 ?

45, because you would have to own (5) 9's to equal (1) 45!
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Respectfully submitted,
Brian
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« Reply #171 on: September 15, 2017, 08:10:40 PM »

Are we done yet?

Which is better
9 vs 45 ?

45, because you would have to own (5) 9's to equal (1) 45!

5.7x28 vs 300Winmag?
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''The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.''
-Thomas Jefferson
7n6
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« Reply #172 on: September 15, 2017, 08:39:52 PM »

Can the M4 fire underwater or partially submerged? No. Then no reason for further testing.

What's the big deal with asking if the rifle can do something that's meaningless?  Are the Navy SEALs having to deal with zombie sharks to get to their targets now?

Seriously, 7n6, the cogent points you make are completely undermined by the farcical and ludicrous requirements you demand.


The future is a gas piston modernized weapon.


7n6
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 07:14:25 AM by 7n6 » Logged
EWTHeckman
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« Reply #173 on: September 15, 2017, 08:41:03 PM »

Are we done yet?

Which is better
9 vs 45 ?

45, because you would have to own (5) 9's to equal (1) 45!

5.7x28 vs 300Winmag?

Well, 5.7 times 28 is only 158.6, so that makes 300 better, that is unless you consider smaller to be better.  Grin Evil
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #174 on: September 15, 2017, 08:59:46 PM »

Are we done yet?

Which is better
9 vs 45 ?

45, because you would have to own (5) 9's to equal (1) 45!

5.7x28 vs 300Winmag?

Well, 5.7 times 28 is only 158.6, so that makes 300 better

This logic in undenyable.  Thank you.
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''The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.''
-Thomas Jefferson
7n6
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« Reply #175 on: September 15, 2017, 09:06:01 PM »



This logic in undenyable.  Thank you.



I agree.


7n6
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 09:53:49 PM by 7n6 » Logged
EWTHeckman
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« Reply #176 on: September 15, 2017, 09:57:55 PM »

5.7x28 vs 300Winmag?

Well, 5.7 times 28 is only 158.6, so that makes 300 better, that is unless you consider smaller to be better.  Grin Evil

Correction: 159.6. Wouldn't want to be accused of doing silly logic wrong!  Grin
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #177 on: September 15, 2017, 10:19:04 PM »

OP...

Glock or 1911?
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''The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.''
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7n6
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« Reply #178 on: September 15, 2017, 10:29:50 PM »

OP...

Glock or 1911?

What's the scenario? I have both- several of both, many several. You forgot Hi Power's, P228's, P220's, Beretta's etc. I like all kinds and revolvers as well, pre-lock of course. Just depends on the situation.

For me personally, if it comes to homeland defense scenario, as in the last weapons that would be in my possession while still alive- I hope I'm holding an M4 carbine with a 1911 sidearm. If it comes to home defense scenario- well, a Glock with a 17rd magazine coupled with a Steyr AUG or perhaps an FN FAL with a Browning Hi Power and a 17 round magazine would suffice. Perhaps a German Mp5 with a German P228, an HK 91 with a German P220, or a Benelli M2 with a Beretta M9, maybe an 870 with a 586 prelock- it all depends on what's going on that day. I like all kinds.


7n6
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 07:13:46 AM by 7n6 » Logged
RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #179 on: September 15, 2017, 10:42:29 PM »

OP...

Glock or 1911?

What's the scenario? I have both- several of both, many several. You forgot Hi Power's, P228's, P220's, Beretta's etc. I like all kinds and revolvers as well, pre-lock of course. Just depends on the situation.  


For me personally, if it comes to homeland defense scenario, as in the last weapons that would be in my possession while still alive- I hope I'm holding an M4 carbine with a 1911 sidearm. If it comes to home defense scenario- well, a Glock with a 17rd magazine coupled with a Steyr AUG or perhaps an FN FAL with a Browning Hi Power and a 17 round magazine would suffice. Perhaps a German Mp5 with a German P228, an HK 91 with a German P220, or a Benelli M2 with a Beretta M9, maybe an 870 with a 586 prelock- it all depends on what's going on that day. I like all kinds.


7n6


 Shocked

Wut?  Not an AK?


I prefer the ergos and nice trigger of the 1911, but I mainly carry glocks.  I do CC a sig p238 which is pretty nice, but it will soon be replaced by a g26 I'm thinking.  I've owned tons of different brands and styles of pistols over the years.  I just stick with glocks now for personal reasons, plus I have to qualify on Glocks yearly so I figure I'll just keep myself nice and trained with the tupperware block.. The quals are kind of intense, so I want all my muscle memory to be the same for that main reason.
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''The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.''
-Thomas Jefferson
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