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Author Topic: Cleaning Products for a "Go To" Gun in storage?  (Read 1612 times)
RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2017, 08:40:09 PM »

Engines also are much less stressed.
 Guns are just too highly stressed to last that many cycles.
H

So you're trying to say that guns have more stress than vehicle or industrial engines?

lol
With all due respect..

It takes maybe a few pounds of force to cycle a gun bolt... Engines are generating hundreds of pounds of torque.

Lucas Red N Tacky is designed for industrial applications which see thousands of pounds of pressure in the contact points of the machinery.  This grease, and automotive oils are designed to keep their density under huge amounts of pressure, while utilizing additives that prevent rust, and break down contaminates.


We can agree to disagree, I'm not saying that you haven't made a great choice, and many of these choices are overkill.

However, first to claim motor oils are poor at preventing rust is incorrect, Motor oils have to pass industrial standards in regards to rust & oxidation prevention.

Second, a firearms action will never see a fraction as much pressure, friction, and abuse that Vehicle and industrial applications see.


I'm sure your lube works great, but you simply cannot ignore the standards that industrial lubricants are held to.  The financial reasoning behind it is backed by billion and trillion dollar companies that make gun lubricant companies look like ants in the shadows of giants.

Yes, I am.

I'm getting numbers in the 2500psi range for peak pressure in a diesel engine from the guys: http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=215499

9mmP has a peak pressure of 35,000psi, 556 NATO gets up around 55,000psi.

There is more force in a firearm than many people expect.

BSW



That is inside the barrel, where there is no oil or moving parts besides the bullet.  We don't put oil in our barrels to lube the bullets man, come on.

A gun bolt doesn't see any where near that kind of force.  The bolts/actions/moving parts in a gun only require a few pounds of force to operate.

Take a step back and think about it without your ego.

Think about how much force it takes to pull your bolt back on your tavor, then think about how much force it takes to move a 4,000 pound vehicle.
Come on dude, you're being ridiculous.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2017, 08:46:28 PM »

Go put some remoil in your truck and tell me how many miles you make it before it breaks down  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2017, 09:06:23 PM »

Go put some remoil in your truck and tell me how many miles you make it before it breaks down  Roll Eyes

hehe

(note: I'm not trying this in my old Civic, LOL)
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2017, 09:25:22 PM »

Little off topic, but this video was pretty cool.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYkg0oDUXs8
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« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2017, 10:00:22 PM »

I use CLP because that's what I've always used and I still have a lot of it from when I was still in the military.  But I've used motor oil lots of times and in some cases old fashioned high speed wheel bearing grease in some areas. 

I've got a rag in a ziploc bag that has a pretty good soaking of oil and when I'm going to store a gun for a while I'll clean it then wipe everything down with that oily rag before I put it in the safe.  Never taken a rusty gun out of the safe that was treated that way.
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Verfed
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« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2017, 10:55:03 AM »

I never thought of or heard of using motor oil before, but you guys convinced me. Gonna save a lotta money.
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paulky_2000
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« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2017, 11:22:29 AM »

I never thought of or heard of using motor oil before, but you guys convinced me. Gonna save a lotta money.

Agreed.

Plus.....as often as I shoot/clean my guns......

A) There's very little possibility of rust.

B) I could save a TON of money on cleaning/lubricating supplies!

Okay, Rabbitslayer.....

What brand of oil are you currently using....and why?
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2017, 03:17:49 PM »

I'm just using the cheapest 5w30 I could buy lol.
I'd just say, if you want thicker oil get a thicker viscosity.
I used 10w30 for a while, works great.  Only reason I'm using 5w30 is because I had an extra quart after an oil change.  Can't remember what brand it is.
Basically every bottle of oil for sale at stores has to meet high industry standards for rust prevention, lubricity, and all that stuff.  So basically every brand will have additives that break down carbon and prevent rust.

Every motor oil product out there contains 10-25% additives, and 75-90% either crude oil base or synthetic base. 
For firearms use, I don't think it really matters.  Just buy the viscosity that you like or prefer Smiley

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« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2017, 03:27:01 PM »

Basically every bottle of oil for sale at stores has to meet high industry standards for rust prevention, lubricity, and all that stuff.  So basically every brand will have additives that break down carbon and prevent rust.

Every motor oil product out there contains 10-25% additives, and 75-90% either crude oil base or synthetic base. 
For firearms use, I don't think it really matters.  Just buy the viscosity that you like or prefer Smiley



Not every bottle. Plenty of oils out there without proper certification but you'll find most of them on the corner gas station shelf.  Just make sure you pick up an oil that is API certified and avoid the energy conserving oils.  They are almost water thin but you won't find those in anything heavier than a 5W-30 if I remember right.   

I keep my motorcycle oil left overs (usually a few ounces here and there) and have a bottle slowing filling up on my shelf.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2017, 03:30:12 PM »

Synthetics break down carbon better, and keep a consistent viscosity better through a large range of temps while dirty.
So it's technically better.

But personally I usually clean my guns and give them fress oil after every outing or two; and i change the oil in my truck regularly, so for me the added cost of synthetic isn't going to give me anything extra besides a lighter wallet.
But during winter time, or if I'm going to be really abusing my truck, I can see the benefit of synth.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2017, 03:54:32 PM »

I'm sure that there are Car Guys on this forum who know more about specific oil brands than I do.  My knowledge of the subject is somewhat basic.
Btw  good point Downs on keeping an eye out for the certification mark!
I've used 711  brand in my truck that was certified iirc, and it ran great.  I honestly couldn't tell the difference between it and some name brand aside from the fact that I saved about $13 on my oil change.

I suppose if grabbing a quart of motor oil for your guns, there's no reason not to buy the best most expensive quart of oil that you can, because honestly that single quart of oil that you spent maybe 10 bucks on for the expensive brand will last you for many many years. 
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whiskey91lima
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« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2017, 04:35:07 PM »

Personally, I prefer Frog Lube. I've used it extensively on my AR, bolt action, and pistols with positive results. It coats the metal and gets into the pores which keeps it lubricated and protected for longer. One of the convenient things about frog lube is that carbon doesn't stick nearly as much as with other lubes. It lasts long and is easy to clean. Frog Lube also sells a carbon fowling solvent that is excellent at removing carbon fowling. I have not had any issues with Frog Lube whereas other lubes have given me problems.

Breakfree CLP is a great, standard CLP.

I do not recommend motor oil. It is optimized for use in engines (temperatures, pressures, journal bearings, ball bearings, etc), and not for firearms. It can work great in firearms, but other lubes optimized for firearms will before better. Motor oil really can't handle the temperatures produced in firearms and breaks down earlier than CLP. Also, motor oil is optimized to flow through an engine. In an firearm, the oil coats the parts and remains relatively stationary. Excessive oil can and will get dirty quickly, and a light coating breaks down from temperature.
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Articlion
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« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2017, 05:16:01 PM »

I do not recommend motor oil. It is optimized for use in engines (temperatures, pressures, journal bearings, ball bearings, etc), and not for firearms. It can work great in firearms, but other lubes optimized for firearms will before better. Motor oil really can't handle the temperatures produced in firearms and breaks down earlier than CLP,

Motor oil can handle the heat just as well as so called gun oil internal engine combustion temps could be 600 700c at the piston and the oil performs just fine cooling the piston and lubricating the ring pack as far as lubricating your gun its the moving parts you are after which have very little heat or pressure . you will never find an oil that will stand up to chamber pressure you could dump motor oil or fire arm oil down the barrel and after a couple rounds it will have burned off. so i don't think heat or pressure differences are even a factor. i
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2017, 05:33:20 PM »

Personally, I prefer Frog Lube. I've used it extensively on my AR, bolt action, and pistols with positive results.

I usually tell people not to use frog lube because it has been well documented to cause malfunctions in firearms due to it gumming up.  Also, to properly use frog lube, you have to completely clean the gun of any traditional oil, and you cannot mix standard oils with it or it will gum up and cause malfunctions.  As well even a small amount of overlube using frog lube will cause malfunctions.  Also my x girlfriend put frog lube in her S&W Shield, and it caused numerous malfunctions.
Traditional oils don't cause problems like this, no need to reinvent the wheel.

Here are just a few documentations of froglube causing malfunctions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y38ydg9B5x8

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=444873
Quote
When I dropped the slide on the round, I noticed it took a little longer, but did not think anything of it (stupid me, I know). The first round failed to eject. I think this was my first failure with the gun (who'd already put 1000+ rnds downrange w/o a problem). When clearing it is when I really noticed that the slide was very sluggish, and the froglube had taken on a slightly gummy property.



https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533770

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/02/21/froglube-is-probably-made-from-coconut-oil-not-frogs/

Quote
But here comes the big problem----> about 9 month after being bought the FL get bad (get rotten ): changed odor (now rancid) and completely changed behavior, without any contamination in the bottle, stored in normal conditions (no extreme hot-cold).

Now the "rancid FL" will gum up any firearm: pistol-rifle (literally like a glue) and it will suck as a rust protective.
It gave me many jams-malfunctions.
The super-smooth feeling slide-frame, became a super-glued action.
https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=450641

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_69Kq34056Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9z1GDyH3x4






« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 05:36:19 PM by RabbitSlayer » Logged

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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2017, 05:41:58 PM »

FWIW

I've been using motor oil for the past 4-5 years, and have had zero malfunction after tens of thousands of rounds with pistols, AR's, AK's, shotguns, Tavor, etc.  I use it in sub zero temps during winter, and 100+ degree F summer weather.  I am a high volume shooter, and I trust the stuff with my life.  I use it on every type of gun I have, and have never had a single malfunction from it.  It lasts much longer than traditional gun oils, and breaks down carbon much better.
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whiskey91lima
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« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2017, 05:52:35 PM »

Also, to properly use frog lube, you have to completely clean the gun of any traditional oil, and you cannot mix standard oils with it or it will gum up and cause malfunctions.  As well even a small amount of overlube using frog lube will cause malfunctions. 

Traditional oils don't cause problems like this, no need to reinvent the wheel.

From my own extended use, I've never had issues with FL. To clarify, I use the paste, properly clean as instructed, and only coat the surfaces wipe-away clean. I can imagine that if you leave excess lube, it will gum up and cause malfunctions. Now, I have not done extensive durability testing with my guns.
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whiskey91lima
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« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2017, 05:59:40 PM »

FWIW

I've been using motor oil for the past 4-5 years, and have had zero malfunction after tens of thousands of rounds with pistols, AR's, AK's, shotguns, Tavor, etc.  I use it in sub zero temps during winter, and 100+ degree F summer weather.  I am a high volume shooter, and I trust the stuff with my life.  I use it on every type of gun I have, and have never had a single malfunction from it.  It lasts much longer than traditional gun oils, and breaks down carbon much better.

It's worth a lot.

I've done some basic testing with motor oil. My only complaint is that when the gun gets hot, it smells like burning motor oil, whereas, traditional CLPs don't. I should do more test with my own guns.

I have found, that with any oil, if you use too much that it appears and feels wet, it will gum up. The recommendation for running ARs "wet" is for extensive fowling and hot BCG that burns up the oil. It is not recommended practice for normal operation. Now, ARs, and any gun for that matter, should be oiled but not drenched.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 06:54:21 PM by whiskey91lima » Logged
RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2017, 06:25:45 PM »

I've overlubed a few guns with motor oil in the past, never had a problem.  I've shot in some dust storms where I had to wear a bandana over my face to not breathe dust/sand as well as eye protection, and the sand storms caused the action of my AR to get extremely dirty, but the gun just kept on chugging along with no problem. (at one point I pulled a bore snake through because I thought sand got in the barrel, but I didn't clean the action)
I also had a buddy that was an Army vet who used to put so much CLP in his AR and Glock that it would spray out when you fired it lol.  I remember shooting his G19, and CLP would splat onto my shooting glasses  rolf Never caused a malfunction though.  Even though I think CLP is not that great (mediocre cleaner, mediocre lube, mediocre rust prevention), I would rather use it than Frog lube for the simple fact I've never heard of standard CLP causing malfunctions.

To give credit where it is due.
Frog lube does prevent rust very well, more so than other gun products.
  However, with it causing the risk of malfunctions for so many various reasons I always tell people to avoid it.  If Frog lube is improperly applied, it will cause malfunctions, and it also commonly gets into the firing pin channels of pistols over time, causing light primer strikes.  Couple that with the fact if you mix traditional petro oil gun products into a gun that was using Frog lube, the frog lube will gum up, I just don't like it.  With traditional oils you can mix them all you want, you can even mix them with grease and it will cause no problems.
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whiskey91lima
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« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2017, 07:05:37 PM »

I've had gumming issues with CLP and overlubbing (re: any lube) with my Sig P320. Using the FL paste and a "dry" lubing technique, I haven't had issues sense.

To give credit where it is due.
Frog lube does prevent rust very well, more so than other gun products.
I believe, in context with OP, a good oil for a safe queen firearm is more in line with the question. Though, motor should do better for storage and rust prevention.

Unrelated: I've switched from using my P320 to a CZ Shadow 2 for competition. While, not a result from, the switch just so happened to coincide with the discovery of the drop failure issue.

I've overlubed a few guns with motor oil in the past, never had a problem.  I've shot in some dust storms where I had to wear a bandana over my face to not breathe dust/sand as well as eye protection, and the sand storms caused the action of my AR to get extremely dirty, but the gun just kept on chugging along with no problem. (at one point I pulled a bore snake through because I thought sand got in the barrel, but I didn't clean the action)

You've sold me on using motor oil. I'll have to work it back into my guns. The P320 would be a good case study given the issues that I've already had with it.

Anyone who says that AKs are more reliable than ARs have never heard of this kind of story.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2017, 07:14:54 PM »

What issues were you having with the 320?
I've heard it will fire if you drop it  Shocked
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