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Author Topic: To the stepped on California bullpup owners  (Read 1381 times)
Snow902R
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« on: August 07, 2017, 01:43:09 AM »

Hey all!

There's a risk I'll be out of country for a while so I've just gone and made the changes to my weapon doing what I believe puts it in the featureless CA compliant category for 2018. It's a TAVOR SAR and until a few days ago was a real joy to take to the range but hey, at least I'm legal now (I think).  Undecided

"Bulletbutton" ~ Gone
Gripwrap ~ Check
Muzzle Brake ~ Came stock for CA version

So... Am I correct? Is this now a fully Featurless rifle???  Undecided

Thanks!!!


* 20170805_CA2017Tavor.jpg (1978.07 KB, 3264x1836 - viewed 179 times.)
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crosseyedshooter
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 02:16:32 AM »

You should check the laws yourself, but avoiding the 2017 definition of assault weapon with so-called featureless configuration may also require the 30" length to be met with a permanently pinned muzzle device.  That seemed to be another point of discussion with the new laws that totally screws over bullpup rifle owners.
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Snow902R
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 03:02:18 AM »

You should check the laws yourself, but avoiding the 2017 definition of assault weapon with so-called featureless configuration may also require the 30" length to be met with a permanently pinned muzzle device.  That seemed to be another point of discussion with the new laws that totally screws over bullpup rifle owners.

Thanks for the reply. Luckily the CA version came in a 30 inch config. One of the problems I have been running into is the lack of certainty from guys I would think are in the know regarding different interpretations of the new rules. I was told at a local shop the the brake doesn't need to be pinned. At a different shop they said i might need to be pinned. Worried that I'm gonna be gone before I'd have a chance to leave it in and pick it back up if pinning the break is necessary. I pray it doesn't. I don't want to pin the brake far a law that will probably change yet again.

Really don't get the reasoning behind the new rules. So far all they've done is cut my mag change time in half and made the rifle more difficult to hold onto. Go Cali!!! Roll Eyes
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 10:42:29 AM »

Dude. 
Leave California.

You guys have some serious **** government over there. 
I would never live somewhere that would give me a felony for having a standard capacity ar15 magazine.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 10:58:18 AM »

You guys have super high cost of living, high taxes, tons of bulls*** laws ( not just gun laws ).
Your state is filled with cholo gangsters, and your politicians protect them with Sanctuary city laws.  I could go on..
But really, It's just sad, you guys seriously do live in a basically Socialist Communist **** run bulls*** government.

Sure you can smoke weed, but you can smoke weed anywhere.  I live in one of the most conservative states in the USA, I work in law enforcement, and 9/10 cops think weed should be legal, and don't give a s*** about it.  The only reason you would get charged with having it here, is if you were being a dumb ass and hot boxing your car, or smoking with kids or some dumb s*** like that. 
But really are you willing to give up all your freedoms just so you can smoke weed and live by the ocean?
I used to smoke weed, now it's been many years since I've smoked it, and honestly my life is much better without it.  Being able to smoke weed doesn't actually do anything positive for a person's life.  It just keeps you in a sedated way of living.  Which I think is part of the reason that so many California gun owners are just rolling over and getting screwed, you guys have become sedated.

You cali guys have it so bad.  But what also really irritates me is almost every Coastline State besides Florida has a communist government.  I used to love Oregon, but now their state has been completely ruined by liberals.  I've considered moving there again but there is no way I am going to live somewhere that uses my tax money to make bulls*** laws that infringe upon people's rights.
A lot of people probably think that conservatives want more laws, but quite the opposite is true if you live in a conservative State you will come to understand that the government really has the least amount possible to do with your personal life.  The real only difference you will see in conservative states is that there are less liberal faggots everywhere.  And really who would want to live in a state where liberal fagets get to tell you how to live.

I'll get off my soapbox now but seriously all of you people that live in bulls*** states with bulls*** gun laws come move out to a free state and enjoy some freedom.  I guarantee as soon as you get a taste of Freedom you will never give those freedoms up again.
There is not a single law enforcement agency in the state that I live in that would enforce unconstitutional gun laws. 

It's not as hard as you guys think, just work overtime for a couple months, save up a couple thousand dollars and move out to a free state.  I guarantee the whole process will be much easier for you than you think it is.  I've moved from state to state a few times, and it's really not difficult. 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 06:48:09 PM by RabbitSlayer » Logged

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silentrunning
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2017, 12:02:12 PM »

What is the use of a standard BULLPUP [No Suppressor] model.....Shame on CA and other state with the same laws.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2017, 12:05:20 PM »

What is the use of a standard BULLPUP [No Suppressor] model.....Shame on CA and other state with the same laws.

It's as long as an m4 with the stock all the way retracted. puke
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Hivedr.
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2017, 02:06:03 PM »

You guys have super high cost of living, high taxes, tons of bulls*** laws ( not just gun laws ).
Your state is filled with cholo gangsters, and your politicians protect them with Sanctuary city laws.  I could go on..
But really, It's just sad, you guys seriously do live in a basically Socialist Communist **** run bulls*** government.

Sure you can smoke weed, but you can smoke weed anywhere.  I live in one of the most conservative states in the USA, I work in law enforcement, and 9/10 cops think weed should be legal, and don't give a s*** about it.  The only reason you would get charged with having it here, is if you were being a dumb ass and hot boxing your car, or smoking with kids or some dumb s*** like that.  
But really are you willing to give up all your freedoms just so you can smoke weed and live by the ocean?

I used to smoke a ton of weed(basically pot head), and now it's been years since I've smoked it, and honestly my life is much better without it.  Being able to smoke weed doesn't actually do anything positive for a person's life.  It just keeps you in a sedated way of living.  Which I think is part of the reason that so many California gun owners are just rolling over and getting screwed, you guys have become sedated.

You cali guys have it so bad.  But what also really irritates me is almost every Coastline State besides
Florida has a communist government.  I used to love Oregon, but now their state has been completely ruined by liberals.  I've considered moving there again but there is no way I am going to live somewhere that uses my tax money to make bulls*** laws that infringe upon people's rights.
A lot of people probably think that conservatives want more laws, but quite the opposite is true if you live in a conservative State you will come to understand that the government really has the least amount possible to do with your personal life.  The real only difference you will see in conservative states is that
there are less liberal faggots everywhere.  And really who would want to live in a state where liberal fagets get to tell you how to live.

I'll get off my soapbox now but seriously all of you people that live in bulls*** states with bulls*** gun laws come move out to a free state and enjoy some freedom.  I guarantee as soon as you get a taste of
Freedom you will never give those freedoms up again.
There is not a single law enforcement agency in the state that I live in that would enforce unconstitutional gun laws.  

It's not as hard as you guys think, just work overtime for a couple months, save up a couple thousand dollars and move out to a free state.  I guarantee the whole process will be much easier for you than you
think it is.  I've moved from state to state a few times, and it's really not difficult.  



Yes Ca. sucks in many many ways that is for sure! The problem is the pay in Ca can not be duplicated easily in free America except in another Liberal state. I am retired (semi) so I can leave anytime, my wife though would take a $50-60k a years pay cut which means going from $100K to $40-50k even with her Masters Degree and 25 years of experience. My retirement income is more than many in my field make working full-time in free America. The "cost of living" thing being less elsewhere is a miss leading myth
when it come to Cali resident with an established professional career trying to relocate and the powers at be in the state capital know this. Really about the only thing cheaper in free America is housing and not by much for a similar size single family home. Housing aside "cost of living" is at best 5% less and in no way can make up for lower overall pay/retirement income. I have spent years researching this and wish it was a true myth. But food, insurance health/car/home, clothing, power, car/truck payments, even income and property taxes are similar or higher.
 
The trick to beating Ca. is to live close to levels that can be reasonably duplicated on pay in free America. That means for example a smaller house, fewer toys and keeping cars longer than 3 years. This leaves a
fair bit more disposable income to buy property in free America for when you can escape. This is what we did and once or son finishes high school and college, my wife can retire and we are leaving, taking our retirement income, taxes and investments with us. Ca. does not care if we leave they know there is an endless supply of free printed money and plenty of other high paid middle class subjects that have fallen into the high pay bondage trap to tax and control.

Now the best thing and what we tell our son and other young people is to NOT build a career here. Don't  fall prisoner to the higher pay and the "things" that can be bought with it. Once you become a prisoner the chains are near impossible to break.

*** Now to the OP
Best to have the muzzle break pinned on as even thought the new law does not say this, the "secret laws" (DOJ regulations) now say for featureless it must be in order to count towards the overall length. If you do not have time before you leave to do this, the "secret law" allows that if you disassemble the rifles action
(remove the barrel and FGC) it is no longer a functional rifle and thus not an AW that needs to be registered. Disassembling the rifle will give you time to have the muzzle brake pinned when you get back. Once done you should be good to go meeting the length requirements.

I for one am going to Reg mine. I am more interested in the shorter length that is allowed with a RAW than dropping mags. I am getting tired of taking the barrel extension off and on when traveling in and out of state. The BB is much simpler to remove and does not require a re-zeroing check caused by changing from the extension to a brake/comp/flash hider.     

  
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 02:17:21 PM by Hivedr. » Logged
paulky_2000
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2017, 02:50:12 PM »

You guys have super high cost of living, high taxes, tons of bulls*** laws ( not just gun laws ).
Your state is filled with cholo gangsters, and your politicians protect them with Sanctuary city laws.  I could go on..
But really, It's just sad, you guys seriously do live in a basically Socialist Communist **** run bulls*** government.

Sure you can smoke weed, but you can smoke weed anywhere.  I live in one of the most conservative states in the USA, I work in law enforcement, and 9/10 cops think weed should be legal, and don't give a s*** about it.  The only reason you would get charged with having it here, is if you were being a dumb ass and hot boxing your car, or smoking with kids or some dumb s*** like that. 
But really are you willing to give up all your freedoms just so you can smoke weed and live by the ocean?
I used to smoke a ton of weed(basically pot head), and now it's been years since I've smoked it, and honestly my life is much better without it.  Being able to smoke weed doesn't actually do anything positive for a person's life.  It just keeps you in a sedated way of living.  Which I think is part of the reason that so many California gun owners are just rolling over and getting screwed, you guys have become sedated.

You cali guys have it so bad.  But what also really irritates me is almost every Coastline State besides Florida has a communist government.  I used to love Oregon, but now their state has been completely ruined by liberals.  I've considered moving there again but there is no way I am going to live somewhere that uses my tax money to make bulls*** laws that infringe upon people's rights.
A lot of people probably think that conservatives want more laws, but quite the opposite is true if you live in a conservative State you will come to understand that the government really has the least amount possible to do with your personal life.  The real only difference you will see in conservative states is that there are less liberal faggots everywhere.  And really who would want to live in a state where liberal fagets get to tell you how to live.

I'll get off my soapbox now but seriously all of you people that live in bulls*** states with bulls*** gun laws come move out to a free state and enjoy some freedom.  I guarantee as soon as you get a taste of Freedom you will never give those freedoms up again.
There is not a single law enforcement agency in the state that I live in that would enforce unconstitutional gun laws. 

It's not as hard as you guys think, just work overtime for a couple months, save up a couple thousand dollars and move out to a free state.  I guarantee the whole process will be much easier for you than you think it is.  I've moved from state to state a few times, and it's really not difficult. 


Yep....THIS.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2017, 03:16:59 PM »

Hive

I can understand the various reasons you stated, but if I may.

You said the cost of living is just as high other places, that is not true at all. 
Ya if you only look at nice neighborhoods in the middle of a city it will be high too.

Out here in my state, you can buy a 4 bedroom house built in the 90's with an acre of land for 100,000$ or less!
Or a 2-3 bedroom with a normal sized yard for 60,000$
Where as in a big city or nice neighborhood those houses would be twice or 3 times as expensive.

If you look on the outskirts of big citys here, there are 3 bedroom house's built in the 70s-80s  that go for 120-150k.
Groceries are cheap if you actually shop at a cheap store and not somewhere ridiculous like Wild Oats.


I understand if you guys feel stuck, but don't let the cost of living thing be seen as a myth because it is simply true.  I live in a pretty big city right now and my cost of living is half of what it would be if I lived in cali. 

There are places in my state where the housing is ridiculously expensive, and those places are basically we're a bunch of rich people from California/ new york buy timeshares.


Basically just look around because like I said you can get huge houses built fairly new with a bunch of land for as much as you would buy a new SUV for.


Do you really need to make 100+k  a year if you can buy a 3 bedroom house for 70k?
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2017, 03:22:59 PM »

Btw, there plenty of places out here where property tax is basically nothing.
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2017, 05:03:41 PM »

I used to live in Illinois (not far from California in terms of debt, leftism, and gun attitudes).

I now live in NW Indiana, 35min from Downtown Chicago.  $120k for a modest 3 bedroom house, $1200/yr taxes.  I have friends living just over the border in the south burbs of Chicago, their houses are $50-$150k more, taxes $4000-7000 more.  And all of us would have the same commute to downtown Chicago if we needed a big city to make income.

Living in Indiana, I call my former state "The People's Republic of Illinois".

Get out sooner rather than later!  Smiley
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Hivedr.
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2017, 06:38:58 PM »

Hive

I can understand the various reasons you stated, but if I may.

You said the cost of living is just as high other places, that is not true at all. 
Ya if you only look at nice neighborhoods in the middle of a city it will be high too.

Out here in my state, you can buy a 4 bedroom house built in the 90's with an acre of land for 100,000$ or less!
Or a 2-3 bedroom with a normal sized yard for 60,000$
Where as in a big city or nice neighborhood those houses would be twice or 3 times as expensive.
If you look on the outskirts of big citys here, there are 3 bedroom house's built in the 70s-80s  that go for 120-150k.
Groceries are cheap if you actually shop at a cheap store and not somewhere ridiculous like Wild Oats.

I understand if you guys feel stuck, but don't let the cost of living thing be seen as a myth because it is
simply true.  I live in a pretty big city right now and my cost of living is half of what it would be if I lived in cali. 

There are places in my state where the housing is ridiculously expensive, and those places are basically we're a bunch of rich people from California/ new york buy timeshares.


Basically just look around because like I said you can get huge houses built fairly new with a bunch of land for as much as you would buy a new SUV for.

Do you really need to make 100+k  a year if you can buy a 3 bedroom house for 70k?

Don't get me wrong we are on the same side, this is just for friendly debate.

You see it from having never lived in Ca, I see it from living hear and having brothers, sisters and close friends in free states making more and in some cases less than us. Comparing bills shows very little difference between living expensive. The difference in house payment between a $250K home say in TX or MT and a $350K home in CA is roughly $200 a month or $2400 a year given today's interest rates on a 30 year mortgage. Even a $100K home would only be about $5-600 less monthly or $7200 less a year. Property taxes? At beat $3k more in CA. That's roughly $5,500-$7200 a year savings in housing and even given some food items and gas costing less, they in no way makes up for the $40K-50K less in pay
outside CA. in ours and other mid/late career professionals cases.

On the surface "cost of living" sounds cheaper $100K home vs $300K home, gas a $1.25 cheaper, property taxes maybe less but often more or equal, state income tax is about the same, sales tax about the same 1or2% difference (7-8.5% in CA), health care cost more or the same, traffic is a pain in or around any large city all over the U.S. When all is said and done it's really around 10% less to maintain the same standard of living one is accustom to here in CA. If one needs a $100k income in CA. to pay for all their wants, they will need a $90K income in most of free American.

It is these $100K+ folks that want out of CA because they are usually 40-65, college educated, career minded, soon to be empty nesters with European last names and have watch the decline of CA over the last two decades. 

For me guns are an issue, but I understand the limits CA can push as long as the SCOTUS is weighted to the right. I also am in the short term boat and only waiting until or son is done with college. College like others in our position could not help pay for without our current level of income.



   


 


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engi
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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2017, 08:16:46 PM »

You'll want to read the regs that were approved but I recall seeing somewhere in there a mention of 30" OAL measured to a permanently attached muzzle device. If im not mistaken, their new definition of permanently attached included pin and weld.

Link below has discussion as well as pdf of the regs.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1358722&highlight=Featureless

Edit: OP, I see crosseyedshooter already brought this up and you responded but i don't think factory device was pin and welded.  Also for easier reference of the regs pdf, see the following.

Page 2, section 5471 part (d)
Page 4 part (x)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 08:25:58 PM by engi » Logged
Snow902R
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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 12:42:53 AM »

All of you guys rock!!

Except for the marijuana argument I can't disagree with any of the anti Cali points. Not a smoker and don't wanna be one but what ever floats the pothead boat as long as it's legal. Hell, maybe it'll piss off some of the a-holes sending their stuff here from over the border. Due to family obligations I'm unable to permanently relocate so I'm forced to jump through the illogical liberal hoops hoping that one day Cali will pull its head out of its own a**.

The tear down tip sounds like it may just save me some headaches. Thanks RabbitSlayer!!! And Thanks to everyone else for the fun read.  Cool
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« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2017, 01:01:32 AM »

Yeah, it's always those that don't have to move that suggest moving. Easy to say, not so easy to do.

Snow902R,
I've been doing some reading and it does look like the muzzle device needs to be permanently attached. Other than that, your set up is good to go.
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« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2017, 02:59:11 PM »

I was stationed in San Diego for 3 years and the only thing I miss is the vast amounts of public access land.  The house I rented was a 3 bed 2 bath with attached 2 car garage sitting on less than 1 acre.  It was valued at 750,000 dollars and was built in the 70s.  The house I'm closing on now east of Dallas is on 5 acres, 3 bed 2 bath with attached 2 car garage, paved driveway, and detached workshop with another roll up door youc ould fit 3 or 4 cars in easily.  200,000. 

Outside of houses and land, nearly everything else is cheaper as well, food, gas, electricity (far cheaper here), ect ect ect.  I don't have to make 150,000 dollars a year to be comfortable.  Between myself and my wife we make a little less than 100 grand a year and don't want for anything and both of us have hobbies that can eat up money.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2017, 04:43:38 PM »

I was stationed in San Diego for 3 years and the only thing I miss is the vast amounts of public access land.  The house I rented was a 3 bed 2 bath with attached 2 car garage sitting on less than 1 acre.  It was valued at 750,000 dollars and was built in the 70s.  The house I'm closing on now east of Dallas is on 5 acres, 3 bed 2 bath with attached 2 car garage, paved driveway, and detached workshop with another roll up door youc ould fit 3 or 4 cars in easily.  200,000. 

Outside of houses and land, nearly everything else is cheaper as well, food, gas, electricity (far cheaper here), ect ect ect.  I don't have to make 150,000 dollars a year to be comfortable.  Between myself and my wife we make a little less than 100 grand a year and don't want for anything and both of us have hobbies that can eat up money.

Yup I agree with this.

FWIW
years ago I lived in one of the legal pot, very liberal states.  Moving out of state was actually less stressful than the high cost of living out there.  One week I just decided I had enough, quit my job, I called around and lined up a temp job in another state.. Packed up a uhaul and towed it with my truck to freedom.
It was hard to find work in that liberal state, but as soon as I filled up the Uhaul and left to find freedom, I found great work right away.
My stress levels dropped a huge amount, and I was generally a much happier person.

It's funny because the pot legal liberal states have this stigma that people who live there are generally happier, and people are more accepting; life is more fun etc etc... Living in that liberal s*** hole was fun for the first few months, but quickly became the most negative depressing point in my whole life.
I thank god I packed up and left when I did.

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paulky_2000
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« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2017, 05:56:21 PM »

Wait.....

Who in hades is paying $250,000 for a house???

I have a 4 bedroom, 2000ft/sq home and 2.5 acres....and I only paid $85,000.

You people need to move to the styx...
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« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2017, 08:00:37 PM »

You can't buy a shack for under $250,000 where I live. The average 3 bedroom home is $400,000 and that's with a tiny yard and no garage. I wish there were properties for $85,000 around my area.
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