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| | |-+  Optimism, pessimism, one heck of a rifle, less pessimism, and... advice??
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Author Topic: Optimism, pessimism, one heck of a rifle, less pessimism, and... advice??  (Read 1955 times)
MostlyQueso
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« on: July 12, 2017, 11:43:28 PM »

I, like many, have been following the progress of the MDR since it was announced in 2014.  As soon as I heard about the rifle I started saving my pennies and picking out names (I was thinking “Thumper”).  I missed the initial preorder as my local DT dealer required full payment before they would place the order, but in May of 2016 I had finally saved enough!  I placed my order for a black 308 through my LGS and took to the internet in search of clues as to when my hard-earned cash might manifest itself in the form of firearm-perfection. 

Since placing my order I, as many others, have read the forum daily in search of any new information.  I have been disappointed about the delays, but not nearly as disappointed as in January when DT announced that shipping dates would finally be released.  I called my LGS in earnest, but instead of receiving an (incorrect) ship date from DT, I learned that my dealer had just closed their doors and filed for bankruptcy.  So I lost my MDR...  I lost my money, and I spent a substantial amount of time feeling sorry for myself. 

This eventually turned into reckless frustration, and started selling guns… lots of guns… most of my guns.  I sold everything I hadn’t fired in the last year which was substantial because starting graduate school has severely cut into my range time.  But no regrets because I used the funds to finance an SRS A1 =D

Well it has been over 6 months since my dealer closed their doors, and I have had little hope of ever getting my MDR or my money refunded.  But just as the DT updates have started to look promising, I too received a glimmer of hope.  I may actually be entitled to a refund through my credit card company. 

So now I humbly request the advice of those with more experience than I.  Should I order again now and join the back of the line of pre-orders for an extra $250?  Or wait a bit to see if the MDR is all we hope it will be? 

P.S. to those of you still waiting, hang in there.  I promise your wait could be worse. 
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sampitt
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2017, 01:27:41 AM »

Congratulations on getting into graduate school.  It sounds like you've had a rough road with your previous MDR preorder.  That dealer is an asshole for claiming your pre-order money as part of their bankruptcy.  I guess hearing me preaching to the choir isn't going to get get your money back.  It's great ro hear your CC company can possibly help you out.

No-one can tell you what to do with your money.  If you do decide you still want to preorder an MDR, I would strongly urge you to contact DT and explain your situation and provide the relevant supporting documentation if necessary.  Another option would be to contact some of the companies that were taking preorders like Euro Optic, Oakland tactical, or Bison tactical, and inquire about possibly taking over someone who wanted out of the preorder's spot.

Good luck.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 03:48:23 AM by sampitt » Logged
HBeretta
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2017, 02:25:54 AM »

So now I humbly request the advice of those with more experience than I.  Should I order again now and join the back of the line of pre-orders for an extra $250?  Or wait a bit to see if the MDR is all we hope it will be?  

why risk it again and DT has provided a fair amount of media to give us a general idea of quality.  i mean i have yet to read of people who've handled the gun at shot show or these recent range events complaining of how cheap the rifle feels, which is a plus.  the rifle has ambi covered like no other so accuracy and reliability is all that's left, incidentally typically priority with many of us.

i think the gun will be legit, but do want to see reviews and community feedback before jumping for it.  we also don't know how quickly DT will be able to fulfill MDR orders either.  how many gun stores have preordered the gun as well.  wouldn't put it past walking into our LGS and notice a couple for sale after shipping has begun.

it's your money and a some opinions here to run with...good luck!

  
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 02:37:27 AM by HBeretta » Logged
Siris
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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2017, 02:27:58 AM »

Someone in another thread had issues with a dealer and contacted DT who said they would honor their original order date. If you have any documentation would be worth a shot (no pun intended) worse they can do is say no.
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What ever happened to Democrat meaning drunken partying and pistol duels on the white house lawn, beating your would be assassin so senseless your security has to protect them from you, and one of your only two regrets is that you didn't kill your own vice president and running mate.
Tvfreakarms
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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2017, 06:56:10 AM »

Now we got the tavor 7

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

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BellatorInvictus
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2017, 11:39:50 AM »

Step 1: Try to get your money back with your credit card company. Explain to them the situation and file a dispute. They're on your side. Why didn't you do this 6 months ago? That's the first thing you should have done. Things like this have a time limit.

Step 2: IF the MDR gets produced and actually lives up to all expectations, starts shipping and consumers start receiving it, THEN consider signing up for the MDR again.

Step 3. Be patient.

Step 4. Repeat Step 3.

Step 5. Disregard Steps 3 and 4, and buy a Tavor 7 in January 2018 if the MDR has not started shipping by then.
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Throughout all history, there has been one class of people who have been ordinarily prohibited from bearing arms: slaves.

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -Stalin
thehun
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2017, 11:53:29 AM »

I would wait until the MDRs are actually built, reviewed and used.

I still don't trust DT will start shipping at the end of this month.
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Sdevante
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2017, 12:19:33 PM »

Agree with the above. At this point, there is certainly no rush in tying up your money when you're going to be at the back of the never moving line anyways.
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Slateman
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2017, 12:20:45 PM »

Ultimately this is up to your credit card company and what kind of bankruptcy the company filed. You need to contact your credit card company and go over the situation with them. You purchased something/put a deposit on something. Said something has not been delivered and the company filed for bankruptcy.

At the very least they can put their legal people on it to research what kind of bankruptcy. If the CC company can get their money back, they'll probably reverse charge it for you and get you a credit. If they can't, then it's a crapshoot. They basically have to be willing to eat the money in the name of customer service.

As for re-ordering, honestly,I would wait. I have a 5.56 model and despite the lower price right now, I'm weighing waiting to see what comes of the .308 model, as well as possibly getting the DMR version instead. There's no rush.
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LockeCTH
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2017, 02:05:47 PM »

Step 1: Try to get your money back with your credit card company. Explain to them the situation and file a dispute. They're on your side. Why didn't you do this 6 months ago? That's the first thing you should have done. Things like this have a time limit.

I can't speak for the OP, but many consumers are unaware of the protections that are available to them through their card provider.

Personally, I'm a bit torn on the subject. I've worked for many small businesses and have seen chargebacks threatened as a way to hold businesses hostage to an overly demanding customer's every whim - or just outright abused for theft.

But then there are stories like this thread that perfectly illustrate how a chargeback can be used to legitimately protect a consumer.

It seems like the scammers always know about this stuff and abuse it as much as possible, while honest, well-intentioned individuals don't find out about it until it's too late.

MostlyQueso, I am just being patient for now. I had to bow out of the group buy due to a lack of funds, and I couldn't afford an MDR right now even if they were on the shelf at my LGS. I'm also particularly interested in a potential DMR version. On top of that, there really isn't another gun out there that has everything I'm looking for - so my decision to wait for now is a simple one.
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spector762
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2017, 05:05:44 PM »

I, like many, have been following the progress of the MDR since it was announced in 2014.  As soon as I heard about the rifle I started saving my pennies and picking out names (I was thinking “Thumper”).  I missed the initial preorder as my local DT dealer required full payment before they would place the order, but in May of 2016 I had finally saved enough!  I placed my order for a black 308 through my LGS and took to the internet in search of clues as to when my hard-earned cash might manifest itself in the form of firearm-perfection. 

Since placing my order I, as many others, have read the forum daily in search of any new information.  I have been disappointed about the delays, but not nearly as disappointed as in January when DT announced that shipping dates would finally be released.  I called my LGS in earnest, but instead of receiving an (incorrect) ship date from DT, I learned that my dealer had just closed their doors and filed for bankruptcy.  So I lost my MDR...  I lost my money, and I spent a substantial amount of time feeling sorry for myself. 

This eventually turned into reckless frustration, and started selling guns… lots of guns… most of my guns.  I sold everything I hadn’t fired in the last year which was substantial because starting graduate school has severely cut into my range time.  But no regrets because I used the funds to finance an SRS A1 =D

Well it has been over 6 months since my dealer closed their doors, and I have had little hope of ever getting my MDR or my money refunded.  But just as the DT updates have started to look promising, I too received a glimmer of hope.  I may actually be entitled to a refund through my credit card company. 

So now I humbly request the advice of those with more experience than I.  Should I order again now and join the back of the line of pre-orders for an extra $250?  Or wait a bit to see if the MDR is all we hope it will be? 

P.S. to those of you still waiting, hang in there.  I promise your wait could be worse. 

hey I was the guy who got screwed over by a local gun shop I emailed dt a pic of the sales receipt and explained what happen and the worked with me no garranty they will do the same but my guess is they will they were very understanding I say it's worth a shot
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2017, 07:52:05 PM »

Now we got the tavor 7

Yeah, so what? 

BTW, I'm sure there are threads in this subforum that you haven't yet posted this revelation that's become common knowledge...
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Kurt
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« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2017, 08:02:04 PM »

I would suggest contacting the vendors already mentioned if you want the MDR and if you feel comfortable buying it essentially sight unseen.  Those of us who are optimistic the MDR will "be all that" and be released within the next few weeks will tell you to go for it and get one now, while the skeptical/negative crowd will tell you to get something else or wait until everyone and their dog reviews it and then maybe get it.

In the end, it's your choice and your resources.  Do you want to tie up your resources for a couple weeks to months to get the MDR or do you think you can put the resources to better use elsewhere?  Only you can decide.
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Kurt
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« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2017, 08:30:57 PM »

I'd say go for it. I'm pessimistic about DT but I'm probably gonna put in an order as soon as I hear of one actually being shipped, regardless of reviews.
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spector762
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« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2017, 09:39:31 PM »

Plus if the first reviews are good and you wait till then you will probably not see it till 2018 I say take the chance if you hate it put it on gun broker an double your money
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Sdevante
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2017, 10:08:42 PM »

Plus if the first reviews are good and you wait till then you will probably not see it till 2018 I say take the chance if you hate it put it on gun broker an double your money

Won't be able to double your money by the time DT gets to the back of the line.
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MostlyQueso
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2017, 12:04:37 PM »

Thanks for all the responses! 

Until recently I was unaware of the option to dispute the claim through my credit card company, but I received a temporary refund on my CC and it should become permanent in another month.  I was surprised that I was allowed to dispute a claim that was over a year old, but I am not complaining. 

Tvfreakarms, I understand that IWI's current offerings do what they do very well and may provide acceptable accuracy within the effective range of 5.56, but I am concerned that the 7.62 Tavor will perform on par with its predecessors.

Spector762, did DT honor the lower preorder price as well as your previous place in line? 

Almost losing $2500 has me leaning toward playing it safe and waiting... But then there's that nagging mental image of me and Thumper gleefully frolicking through the Texas hill country, handguard in hand, slaying hogs. 
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spector762
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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2017, 05:57:43 PM »

Thanks for all the responses! 

Until recently I was unaware of the option to dispute the claim through my credit card company, but I received a temporary refund on my CC and it should become permanent in another month.  I was surprised that I was allowed to dispute a claim that was over a year old, but I am not complaining. 

Tvfreakarms, I understand that IWI's current offerings do what they do very well and may provide acceptable accuracy within the effective range of 5.56, but I am concerned that the 7.62 Tavor will perform on par with its predecessors.

Spector762, did DT honor the lower preorder price as well as your previous place in line? 

Almost losing $2500 has me leaning toward playing it safe and waiting... But then there's that nagging mental image of me and Thumper gleefully frolicking through the Texas hill country, handguard in hand, slaying hogs. 

yes they honored the old price
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Tvfreakarms
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2017, 05:28:50 PM »

Thanks for all the responses! 

Until recently I was unaware of the option to dispute the claim through my credit card company, but I received a temporary refund on my CC and it should become permanent in another month.  I was surprised that I was allowed to dispute a claim that was over a year old, but I am not complaining. 

Tvfreakarms, I understand that IWI's current offerings do what they do very well and may provide acceptable accuracy within the effective range of 5.56, but I am concerned that the 7.62 Tavor will perform on par with its predecessors.

Spector762, did DT honor the lower preorder price as well as your previous place in line? 

Almost losing $2500 has me leaning toward playing it safe and waiting... But then there's that nagging mental image of me and Thumper gleefully frolicking through the Texas hill country, handguard in hand, slaying hogs. 
People always complain about the accuracy about the tavor. It does its job for what it is.  A military rifle for cqb.
It's like if it can shot negative sub moa at 1k meters and people gets pissed about it.
I'm not just saying that about u but I've read a lot and read the same story.  And most of these people won't take it past 50yrds.
People praising MDR and it's not out yet.

But since a lot of people complained about the tavor not being accurate I'm sure the new tavor 7 is moa. Plus its a different system. It's a short short gas piston vs long. So,  internally it's different. With 4 adjustable gas system. With other changes compared to the tavors.
Personally I hope the MDR is as good as its suppose to be.
Since I live in Cali I can't it get it anyways or at least not anytime soon.



Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

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Ascinder
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2017, 08:16:14 PM »

I hope both the new Tavor and the the MDR are sub moa and perform wonderfully. Competition breeds excellence and that seems to get lost in the pissing contest people make this into. I think a lot of people bring up the Tavors poor accuracy because so many other people keep bringing it up as a viable alternative to the MDR. Like it or not, DT was known for having rock solid accuracy with all their prior rifles, so people naturally associate it with the MDR. Vice versa for the Tavor. It has become an assumed feature and I'd say the overwhelming majority of us wouldn't be content with less.
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