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Author Topic: Magnified optic on your Tavor?  (Read 4736 times)
RabbitSlayer
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« on: June 08, 2017, 04:57:23 PM »

I have a few 1-4/1-6 scopes on  ar15s, I like them but I will never consider them as fast as a parallax free Red Dot.

Just wondering how you guys out there feel about your magnified Optics and how the cheek welds are with the eye relief and everything.  Do your guns run fast?
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Rastoff
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2017, 03:37:08 PM »

As much as I hate to admit it, I'm older and my eyes are not as good as they used to be. I started with the Trijicon MRO and like it a lot, but I really need magnification if I'm going to shoot at 100 yards and beyond, and I do.

I also have very high cheek bones. While most are complaining that the rail on the Tavor is too low, it's too high for me. Normal scope and red dot optic mounts are far too high for me. When I mount the rifle using my cheekbone as an anchor point, I'm looking dead at the mount, not through the optic. So, I made it fit me:


I designed and printed a cheek riser. I milled a couple of clamps to hold it by the very end of the picatinny rail:


You'll also notice the offset RMR. That is a new addition that I'm testing. I feel pretty fast with the ACOG, but the RMR may be faster for closer shots. I'm not convinced I'll keep it, but you never know.

The cheek riser is what makes all the difference for me with the ACOG though. Without it, getting the proper eye relief and center wouldn't happen. But now that I have it, it's very fast. With both eyes open and fixed on the target, I can just pop the gun up and I'm almost centered on the target. A tiny adjustment and I'm hitting POA. I have to make the same adjustment with the RMR or MRO.

While I may take the RMR off, I'm keeping the magnified optic. I'm sure it's a shade slower than just a red dot. But, I'm not trying to win at the national level. I'm faster than most of the guys at my local club (they're even older and slower than me) and that's fast enough.
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boscoman
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2017, 05:18:21 PM »

I run an ELCAN with 4X magnification with the flip of a switch on my SAR and a 3X AimPoint magnifier on a flip mount with my Mepro Light Red Dot on my X95. For distance I prefer the ELCAN, but for any shooting under 100 yards / meters the Meprolight is faster & easier to use with both eyes open.
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tavor hollow
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2017, 07:37:58 PM »

I must be doing it wrong. I don't find red dots any faster, but then I'm not on the clock against myself or anyone else.almost everyday when I get home I dry fire and sight targets in a 360 at various distances my fiber optic 1x4 post red triangle is ever present._ I'm looking at a 1-8 rs27 I fear I may miss the fiber optic but its not like I'm married to them. I run mine extra high so my neck isn't wrenched.tomorrow I may put a 4-16 on it to explore 4-6-8 poweras a comparison for placing shots at 300. If the gun wont do it I don't think ill run a 1-8.
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BellatorInvictus
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2017, 02:35:00 AM »

I run an ELCAN with 4X magnification with the flip of a switch on my SAR and a 3X AimPoint magnifier on a flip mount with my Mepro Light Red Dot on my X95. For distance I prefer the ELCAN, but for any shooting under 100 yards / meters the Meprolight is faster & easier to use with both eyes open.

I agree--I used both a red dot (Mepro M5) and a 4x scope (ACOG) on my X95 before I sold it, and for 100yds+, the ACOG was very fast. It was indeed a fantastic setup--I could easily get fast, accurate hits at 100yds standing with the X95/4x32 ACOG (chevron reticle). The IDF has their marksmen use this same setup (with donut reticle). Cheek weld was fine--no riser or anything needed (I'm 6'4", 240lbs).

Under 100 yards, you don't really need magnification if you have good eyes, so for that I found the M5/RDS Pro to be faster. For home defense I use the red dot. FWIW.
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BoulderTroll
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2017, 07:14:22 PM »

Like Rastoff, my eyes are getting worse with age.  I also started with an MRO on my Tavor, and now it wears my newest optic, an ACOG TA11H-G.  In fact, I just played with it at the range this morning.  I have the Gearheadworks short razorback rail, and zeroed my donut dot at 100, using 75 grain Hornady TAP.  I brought it in, and I'm happy to report that at 50 yards, it's dead on if I aim between the bottom of the two horseshoe ends.  I didn't get to try it at 25, but I have a strong suspicion that using the top of the vertical line on the BDC will be pretty darn close to POA/POI. 
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paulky_2000
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2017, 02:48:24 PM »

I'm currently trying out this setup:

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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2017, 05:26:00 PM »

Bump

Post your rigs!
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tavor hollow
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2017, 10:09:45 PM »

I finally took the time to drop my optic 1/2". Placement is suited for my wants. Like about 10 minutes ago I checked to make sure the point of impact was good with the clip on a little after dark all seems well


* IMG1833.jpg (1498.99 KB, 2592x1944 - viewed 92 times.)
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tavor hollow
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2017, 10:43:21 PM »

Full moon is just in the tops of the trees behind me I'm facing west. Is about 2+ power. 50 yard target earlier I put a shot on the 100 just a hit. The 50 you might be able to see the head shot. I know this is no big deal but I'm just trying to post something a little different ....didn't bullpupT got  thermal 2-8 predator....maybe some pictures of that would be fun.thick foilage capabilities?


* IMG1835.jpg (352.46 KB, 2592x1944 - viewed 90 times.)
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757_Magnum
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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2017, 10:51:31 PM »

I'm running an ACOG TA33GH on a Midwest Industries mini ACOG mount.  The height is perfect for me, and I don't struggle with obtaining a good cheek weld.  I'm not as experienced with carbines as I am with pistols, but when running drills from 3 to 15 yards from low and high ready I was able to keep up with more experienced shooters running ARs with red dots in a class a few weeks ago.  My groups seemed a bit tighter compared to the guys on both sides of me, and I think that was due to the magnification.

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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2017, 07:56:22 AM »

Full moon is just in the tops of the trees behind me I'm facing west. Is about 2+ power. 50 yard target earlier I put a shot on the 100 just a hit. The 50 you might be able to see the head shot. I know this is no big deal but I'm just trying to post something a little different ....didn't bullpupT got  thermal 2-8 predator....maybe some pictures of that would be fun.thick foilage capabilities?


Man that is really freekin cool!

I don't know much about night vision, other than that it's really expensive !

Can you give some more details about that setup? 
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2017, 07:58:57 AM »

I'm running an ACOG TA33GH on a Midwest Industries mini ACOG mount.  The height is perfect for me, and I don't struggle with obtaining a good cheek weld.  I'm not as experienced with carbines as I am with pistols, but when running drills from 3 to 15 yards from low and high ready I was able to keep up with more experienced shooters running ARs with red dots in a class a few weeks ago.  My groups seemed a bit tighter compared to the guys on both sides of me, and I think that was due to the magnification.




Nice, it looks like that mount is a bit higher than the standard mounts, which would make it perfect for the Tavor's optic rail from my understanding.  Good lookin rig you got there. 
One of these days I really need to nut up and buy an ACOG.
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YunGunz120
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2017, 09:39:39 AM »

Mars with Vortex 4x


* 19875825_10154540247291816_1057148915_o.jpg (267.52 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 98 times.)
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Iamjocanadian
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2017, 03:31:01 PM »

I'm running the Mepro M5 Pro as well with the Vortex 3x. Can't quite tack them at 200m but I'm banging on an 8x8 steel target with very few misses. I'm very tempted to try a 1-8x Primary arms Acss.


* 20170701_144758.jpg (4156.23 KB, 4032x3024 - viewed 97 times.)
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BoulderTroll
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« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2017, 04:43:38 PM »



Nice, it looks like that mount is a bit higher than the standard mounts, which would make it perfect for the Tavor's optic rail from my understanding.  Good lookin rig you got there. 
One of these days I really need to nut up and buy an ACOG.

You won't regret it!  My TA11 is absolutely phenomenal as a match for my 18" Tavor.  I've had ACOGs before, and never been as in love with them on other platforms.  I just can't rave enough about my TA11.  Sure, it's a bit bigger and heavier than most ACOGs, but the sight picture has to be seen to be believed.  The eye relief is outstanding, and a nice wide field of view.  Unlike the small ACOGs, there is no "looking through the tube" look with the TA11. 

The Tavor is not a lightweight rifle to begin with, so the slightly larger weight and size of the TA11 is not as noticeable as it was on my M4.  I've never been happier with an optic/ carbine combination.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2017, 05:23:50 PM »



Nice, it looks like that mount is a bit higher than the standard mounts, which would make it perfect for the Tavor's optic rail from my understanding.  Good lookin rig you got there. 
One of these days I really need to nut up and buy an ACOG.

You won't regret it!  My TA11 is absolutely phenomenal as a match for my 18" Tavor.  I've had ACOGs before, and never been as in love with them on other platforms.  I just can't rave enough about my TA11.  Sure, it's a bit bigger and heavier than most ACOGs, but the sight picture has to be seen to be believed.  The eye relief is outstanding, and a nice wide field of view.  Unlike the small ACOGs, there is no "looking through the tube" look with the TA11. 

The Tavor is not a lightweight rifle to begin with, so the slightly larger weight and size of the TA11 is not as noticeable as it was on my M4.  I've never been happier with an optic/ carbine combination.

That's good to hear.  I have been looking at the 1-4 Trijicon Accupoint https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product1.php?id=accupoint

But I'm not that exited about the reticles available on them.  I am going to check out some Acogs side by side and see which I like better.   I really like the 1-4 feature, but the reticles are kind of crap, so each optic has their trade offs.  I have always loved Vortex, but I don't think the Vortex options have as good of glass, and trijicon has Vortex beat by years in regards to reticle '' battery '' life, even though they just use tritium and fiber optics.  I love my Vortex and Aimpoint optics, but I think it's time I nut up and drop the coin on some Trijicon gear.


Btw if you're LE or MIL you can get a discount on a bunch of big brand optics  Grin
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 04:59:43 PM by RabbitSlayer » Logged

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BoulderTroll
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« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2017, 05:44:54 PM »


That's good to hear.  I have been looking at the 1-4 Trijicon Accupoint https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product1.php?id=accupoint

But I'm not that exited about the reticles available on them.  I am going to check out some Acogs side by side and see which I like better.   I really like the 1-4 feature, but the reticles are kind of crap, so each optic has their trade offs.  I have always loved Vortex, but I don't think the Vortex options have as good of glass, and trijicon has Vortex beat by years in regards to reticle '' battery '' life, even though they just use tritium and fiber optics.  I love my Vortex and Aimpoint optics, but I think it's time I nut up and drop the coin on some Trijicon gear.


Btw if you sign up at Experticity.com you can get a 30% discount on Trijicon, Vortex, and hundreds of other companies if you have are LE or Mil.   Grin

Often much better than 30%.  Experticity.com's Vortex discount is 40%, and their Steiner discount is even higher.  I bought pretty much all my RCBS reloading supplies through them.

But back to Trijicon...I tried my brother's Accupoint a couple years ago and really disliked the reticle, so I'm in complete agreement with you there.  As a general rule, I'm not a fan of variable low-power scopes.  Primarily because of that "through the toilet paper tube" appearance I was talking about.  

If I could make one suggestion;  trying a bunch of ACOG models before buying is a really great idea IF...you have them mounted on a rifle.  The issue I've found is there is no way to get a good feel of an optic's eye relief or sight picture when holding them up by hand.  I've held many ACOGs in stores that way and it's a very inaccurate way to compare them.  If you can have them mounted, or find people who own the model you want to see, that is a far better way to do it.
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RabbitSlayer
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« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2017, 05:50:32 PM »


That's good to hear.  I have been looking at the 1-4 Trijicon Accupoint https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product1.php?id=accupoint

But I'm not that exited about the reticles available on them.  I am going to check out some Acogs side by side and see which I like better.   I really like the 1-4 feature, but the reticles are kind of crap, so each optic has their trade offs.  I have always loved Vortex, but I don't think the Vortex options have as good of glass, and trijicon has Vortex beat by years in regards to reticle '' battery '' life, even though they just use tritium and fiber optics.  I love my Vortex and Aimpoint optics, but I think it's time I nut up and drop the coin on some Trijicon gear.


Btw if you're LE or MIL you can get a discount on a bunch of big brand optics  Grin

Often much better than 30%.  Experticity.com's Vortex discount is 40%, and their Steiner discount is even higher.  I bought pretty much all my RCBS reloading supplies through them.

But back to Trijicon...I tried my brother's Accupoint a couple years ago and really disliked the reticle, so I'm in complete agreement with you there.  As a general rule, I'm not a fan of variable low-power scopes.  Primarily because of that "through the toilet paper tube" appearance I was talking about.  

If I could make one suggestion;  trying a bunch of ACOG models before buying is a really great idea IF...you have them mounted on a rifle.  The issue I've found is there is no way to get a good feel of an optic's eye relief or sight picture when holding them up by hand.  I've held many ACOGs in stores that way and it's a very inaccurate way to compare them.  If you can have them mounted, or find people who own the model you want to see, that is a far better way to do it.


In regards to the toilet paper feel with variable power scopes, something interesting I've noticed through experience was that a few of the cheap lower end models had great eye relief, and it didn't have to toilet paper tube problem, but then some of the higher end models did... Which really just left me scratching my head.

I wish I could find a gun shop that would let me actually mount a bunch of different ones to rifles, because you really dont get a feel till it's mounted.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 05:00:19 PM by RabbitSlayer » Logged

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SteveD
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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2017, 02:16:14 AM »

I run an aimpoint Pro with 3x Aimpoint magnifier on an American Defense swing mount. Get the best of both worlds, except the weight.
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