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Author Topic: Range advice needed UPDATED FROM MAY 1st Last Post  (Read 2676 times)
Rick53
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« on: April 20, 2017, 10:21:32 AM »

I am looking for advice on how to proceed. I hope this thread doesn't turn into something different.

I live in the country where everyone shoots: 90% of the people shoot at targets hanging on Trees or whatever. According to the township there is no ordinance for plinking that requires any backstop etc: I decided to be safe and used 40 yards of Beech Sand to make a backstop.

I have a small 100 yard gun range at my home. It's filled with 10 steel targets with a sand back stop. Over the winter the sand settled. Which was a surprise since it's been there for 4 years.   So I lowered the targets and proceeded to use the range.  Neighbors who are renters moved into a house that is behind my property but easily 300 yards in both width sideways and depth away from my backstop:

But they decided to complain anyway. They told the State Police I was firing rounds one after another that went flaying thru the woods. When the Police came to my house they not only threatened to arrest me. But told me I need to build the berm up 4 ft above the top of my targets. They said the neighbors would be video taping my actions. That if I so much as fired a gun once they would return and arrest me and charge me with reckless discharge/ endangerment of a Fire arm. Plus take my guns.

When I question what right they had to apply standards for shooting on my own property. Standards the Township says don't exist. They answered I was missing the point and I should feel lucky I wasn't in cuffs already.  I pointed out that at least I had a back stop where everyone else I know has nothing. They repeated that I was missing the point.

I thought cops were supposed to enforce the law: Not make it.

I was planning on having more sand delivered anyway. But I wasn't in a hurry as my targets are all at least a foot below the top of the sand. Plus the angle goes away from the neighbors property. Or should I say renters. I can understand if the police had said I should increase the HT for liability sake. But to tell me NOT TO FIRE ONE TIME or they'd come arrest me. Seems as though they are over-stepping a lot.

Especially considering My neighbor on the acreage next to me was shooting last night. All he has is a Big oak he hangs a target on. No police showed up to arrest him.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 09:39:30 AM by Rick53 » Logged
EWTHeckman
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 10:28:01 AM »

I am not a lawyer and I don't know the details of the law in your area (especially since I don't know what area that is  Wink ). So my best advice is to find a lawyer in your area that specializes is firearms related law. They would be the one to give you the best advice.

I get a strong impression that those new renters have some sort of personal relationship with the police given how biased they sound in your description. That's another reason why you should make sure your response is as legally sound as possible.

BTW, they may be seeing some splatter from your steel targets. If you can, I suggest making sure they're angled downwards.
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2017, 07:05:34 PM »

Sounds like your new neighbors are just anti gun and trying to cause as much trouble as they can. And probably have a buddy cop that has no problem making threats. Maybe next time video tape the cop that comes to threaten you and see if he changes his tune.
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st381
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 09:48:25 PM »

Most counties dictate firearms cannot be discharged within 150 yards of an inhabited structure or
other such language. If you sure your range is legally permitted I would let the cops arrest me and then let the unconstitutional arrest settlement pay for more range toys and ammo. Also if the neighbors are going to record your every move I would also record theirs. Be aware of noise ordinances as well, I can see someone being upset if your shooting at all you're s of the day. Finally, if you know the landlord, give them a call and work things out.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2017, 10:41:11 PM »

I am not a lawyer and I don't know the details of the law in your area (especially since I don't know what area that is  Wink ). So my best advice is to find a lawyer in your area that specializes is firearms related law. They would be the one to give you the best advice.

I get a strong impression that those new renters have some sort of personal relationship with the police given how biased they sound in your description. That's another reason why you should make sure your response is as legally sound as possible.

BTW, they may be seeing some splatter from your steel targets. If you can, I suggest making sure they're angled downwards.

This.  Find a good lawyer who is pro 2A and follow his instructions to the letter.  Also, the suggestion to video tape the cops is a good one and I'd suggest that as well. 

The next thing I would suggest is to be neighborly and talk to the new neighbors and explain what is going on and how things work with your range, perhaps even inviting them to try it out.  A lot of times people react from fear of the unknown and once the unknown is made known, things change for the better.  What I wouldn't do is get confrontational or go to their landlord without first talking to the tenants; no one likes to feel like someone went over their head with a complaint without first talking to them.
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Kurt
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2017, 10:45:46 AM »

go down to the county court house and get a copy of zoning regulations.  There has to be some sort of documentation concerning this, if not, wait until the next council meeting have an ordinance put before the council for a vote to become law.

My concern would be civil more than criminal.

My guess is that the officer was threatening based on civil responsibilities more than criminal code.  Go to the Sheriff dept. and talk to the boss, see what he says and if there is any local, county or state codes that you should be aware of.

You do have to show " do diligence " in building a back stop to show that no rounds leave your property.  If a round left your property and caused damage or injury, you could be held responsible for being negligent.

You get out in the stick, most people do just go out and shoot in their back yards - when I'm at my place in MO - I do all the time, BUT I am aware that there are cattle grazing in the fields around me and if a round hits and kills one, I will be buying a bunch of steaks Evil
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Rick53
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2017, 09:20:40 AM »

I already have 40 yards of Sand coming. If that's not enough I'll get more. I also have the same guy bringing the sand who is going to shave the ground to gradually go down another 2 ft . So once done I should be easily 6 ft above any steel plate. I'm going to make sure of exactly what the ordinances are before I start blasting away again.

This guy already bragged to the neighbor on the next section that he put an end to me shooting PERIOD. I guess he'll be surprised : It's also been suggested I repost no trespassing signs on the Property
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 09:22:13 AM by Rick53 » Logged
semper paratus
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2017, 10:26:41 AM »

an idea -- a pile of dirt / sand will always sink / settle / wash away -- In the old days they would make a house using tires and then filling those up with sand - the instructor could then walk above the scenarios.

You could build a 8 or 10 foot wall of tires - double row - interlocking - tied together - and fill those with sand.  Unless you are shoot a 50 cal  Barrett you are not going to be shooting through it.  A junk yard would probably pay you to take their old tires so they do not have to dispose of them

good luck
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afuntxcowboy
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2017, 10:04:27 PM »

I would also keep a copy of the laws in your area in a sheet protector with your gun case

If a cop shows up, you can show him you are not just taking his word for what the law says.   Have him read out loud which section he is referencing.

Oh, and get a Googletter Earth satellite map showing the distance between range and residence since he could argue distance

Best of luck
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2017, 12:35:29 AM »

I already have 40 yards of Sand coming. If that's not enough I'll get more. I also have the same guy bringing the sand who is going to shave the ground to gradually go down another 2 ft . So once done I should be easily 6 ft above any steel plate. I'm going to make sure of exactly what the ordinances are before I start blasting away again.

This guy already bragged to the neighbor on the next section that he put an end to me shooting PERIOD. I guess he'll be surprised : It's also been suggested I repost no trespassing signs on the Property

That right there is pretty much proof he is just anti gun and out to punish you. If he persists, document everything and then sue/arrest him for harassment.
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unsungboxer
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2017, 01:00:44 AM »

Have you tried talking to your neighbor to see what would make them feel comfortable even if you arent morally or legally obligated to?  Sometimes you catch more flies with honey...

PS, one of the best techniques to flip anti-gun people is by showing them how calm, rational, and respectful gun-owners can be.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 01:04:01 AM by unsungboxer » Logged
popo22
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« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2017, 07:46:42 PM »

Since I do not know where you live, I would contact your states "Attorney General's" office to get the laws pertaining to your state (since you stated it was the "State Police" who came to your house). Each state and sometimes different counties have different ordinances governing shooting across properties and "range requirements". Make sure you are covered legally before you assume you are in the right. IMHO
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Rick53
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« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2017, 09:40:49 AM »

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305789

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307256

To Update this story

As some of you know I've had trouble with 2 neighbors over My Gun Range. So as Promised to keep the peace I hauled in 90 yards more sand.

My first time shooting was yesterday: I very respectfully Fired 10 Shots from My X-95 . Hitting the Largest steal plate I was forced to move closer, quite easily.

I need to mention that I worked outside 3hrs on Saturday and 4 hours on Sunday . Digging and pounding things back into Shape. On Sunday and hour before and all during me being outside. Someone was Firing a Rifle over and over. I lost count after 150 rounds. It sounded like it was coming from the neighbors . I don't believe it was him. More likely the next guy over.

What's revealing is nobody called the Police and complained. However as soon as I shoot 10 times here come the police, past my place over to the Guys complaining. After 10 minutes past My wife notices one of the complainers and an officer are walking over to the Property line trying to get a view of my situation.

Naturally I went out to see what was going on. I'm not going to bore you with all the back and Forth. Let's just say I confronted the neighbor as to why was he complaining now when someone else that came from his direction must have fired 500 rounds over the course of 5 hrs.

I also asked what more can I do. I've made this range as safe as I possibly could.  Kinda Funny since I'd posted No Trespassing Signs even the Officer stayed on the neighbors little patch.

I Invited both them over to look at the set up more closely. The Neighbor refused to come look. Although after the Police left he came out and took all sorts of pictures. Who knows why.

Anyway, First thing the Cop says to me is Wow this is a stellar set up. I wasn't expecting to find this type of barrier.  But then he says the Neighbor wants to know since I have all this land. Why didn't I put the back of the range  behind his house instead of before it.  LOL , before he was complaining bullets were flying thru the woods past his house. Which is exactly what they had called in about yesterday.

The Officer told me he would write in his report that he informed these guys I have every legal right to shoot. That in his view my Range was above reproach and posed no danger to the neighbor or anyone else not on my land.

So that's refreshing to have the Cops say they were essentially impressed . While telling the Neighbor he needs to live with it.

I have a feeling it's not close to over especially after he came and took pictures.


For the party who accused me of making this all up. Maybe this will give you more faith in Human Nature: Not everyone on the Internet leads a lonely life: ON AK FILES

Recouping Nicely Thank You Even though My hair won't probably grow back for a long time.  [/SIZE]


Here's the best pic I have of the range before





You can see neighbors garage in the left corner. Picture wise it straight left from my sand pile . In actuality that's over 150 yards farther back and 100 plus yards over. The scale I took pictures on makes everything look closer. My range is exactly 100 yards. Also Keep in mind all the land in front and in back is My land. His plot is a tiny little 3/4 chunk that someone must have sold to someone else 100 years ago. I tried to buy it when I bought my land but there was no current record of an address and phone. Just a Taxpayer name. Why you'd even want to build there is rediculous.


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« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 09:43:46 AM by Rick53 » Logged
patrick711
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« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2017, 05:26:29 PM »

In your spare time rent a bull dozer an extend the range out to at least 200 yds. Imho time to send the neighbor a registered letter for no trespassing an if he continues to call the police  when you shoot   harassment. You have been more than neighborly, compiling to safety, zoning, an just plan common sense. No more kid glove to this azzhat neighbor.
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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2017, 06:30:42 PM »

Man I wish I had that range at home! Sounds like the cop told the guy it was over and to quit complaining.
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Rick53
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« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2017, 07:54:25 AM »

Man I wish I had that range at home! Sounds like the cop told the guy it was over and to quit complaining.
Thanks : Your Targets get a lot of use with handgun and the Tavor.  So far no pitting . Even at ranges of 65 yards. I have one tiny pit in the largest target. It's a result of loading a green tip in amongst boat tails
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BrianK
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« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2017, 01:58:24 AM »

This is exactly why I don't live terribly close to other people. But where I live everyone shoots, nearly every day. It's just a way of life here. We all own firearms and use them.

My closest neighbor is a shooter and his brother shoots machine guns. I almost always call to tell them when I'm shooting and in which direction. I didn't one time and his wife came over to take me to task and saw that the bullets weren't just going away from their direction but way over 90 from their direction. That quickly took the wind out of her sails. I'm ultra sensitive to bullet impact since a lawyer is attached to every bullet.

It would really suck to shoot around anti-gunners. I definitely feel for you. Suggest they move back to the city where they belong, or that they pull their heads out of their rectums. Yes, invite them over to use the range. All done tactfully of course and not the way I wrote it. Maybe you can change their mindset. City folks just can't see the need for firearms; that's just the way they are. Maybe bait their land to draw coyotes? Suggest that you can eliminate them? Get them to see the light? City people who move to the country are a problem, but they think they are "normal"; they aren't.  It happens everywhere. Where they are from is screwed up due to them, so they move to where things are great, then try to turn that area into the same screwed up place they came from. They don't understand that they are the problem.

I wish you well.
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Rick53
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« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2017, 09:37:23 AM »

This is exactly why I don't live terribly close to other people. But where I live everyone shoots, nearly every day. It's just a way of life here. We all own firearms and use them.

My closest neighbor is a shooter and his brother shoots machine guns. I almost always call to tell them when I'm shooting and in which direction. I didn't one time and his wife came over to take me to task and saw that the bullets weren't just going away from their direction but way over 90 from their direction. That quickly took the wind out of her sails. I'm ultra sensitive to bullet impact since a lawyer is attached to every bullet.

It would really suck to shoot around anti-gunners. I definitely feel for you. Suggest they move back to the city where they belong, or that they pull their heads out of their rectums. Yes, invite them over to use the range. All done tactfully of course and not the way I wrote it. Maybe you can change their mindset. City folks just can't see the need for firearms; that's just the way they are. Maybe bait their land to draw coyotes? Suggest that you can eliminate them? Get them to see the light? City people who move to the country are a problem, but they think they are "normal"; they aren't.  It happens everywhere. Where they are from is screwed up due to them, so they move to where things are great, then try to turn that area into the same screwed up place they came from. They don't understand that they are the problem.

I wish you well.
I've invited him over: He refuses to even step on my property. I have 2 trees that fell over. I cut them up so they were GTG. I offered him the wood and he said no thanks . Yesterday around 3PM I let 60 rounds go down range.  As soon as I was done I heard him screaming at the top of his lungs: Then he turned up some Music and proceeded to beat the hell out of a Steel drum. I might add it was way off time : He's a baby and Mad because the Police sided with me.  This guy is never going to see the light: I'll just live with it for 2 more years: Golf has started So that will occupy my spare time until October:

I have a developer that wanted my land at such a fantastic Price that I worked out a deal where. They are going to expand homes off the Golf course and put a Driving range in. So instead of Bullets he'll have Golf balls bouncing off his roof. They plan to start clearing the land Spring of 2019. So it was agreed I will move between October-December of 2018. I've already closed and got my $$$$$. Soon as My Wife retires (Next Spring) I'll be set to move slightly north .  My house is way to Big for just us anyway.

I already found land that's high and dry. Just 12 acres this time: But it's surrounded by The national Forest and 2 dairy farms:  Paved Roads already in. Actually closer to Town then I am now because it's West close to Lake Michigan.  Right now I am 10 miles east of the Lake. This New Property is about a Mile. There's also some degree of berming that one Farmer uses as a Range.   
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