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| | |-+  So it's time to consider the reality of the MDR project
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Author Topic: So it's time to consider the reality of the MDR project  (Read 12255 times)
EWTHeckman
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« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2017, 10:17:44 AM »

Well since last julyish...so 11 months?Huh? That is suddenly years?

The earliest estimated date I recall is Christmas 2015. They've clearly and repeatedly underestimated how long it would take to finish the MDR.
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Raptor
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« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2017, 10:59:56 AM »

The Desert Tech bankruptcy is going to totally f*** up the Airsoft MDR sales.



What DT bankruptcy?  Where is there even one concrete shred of evidence other than someone speculating about it on the internet?  This is how stupid ideas become stupid rumors that people then defend as "fact".


Sorry Kurt, but it is fact. I read it on an Internet BullPup forum.  ;-)

<JK> for all those who not get my humor.

~Raptor
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Raptor
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« Reply #62 on: April 21, 2017, 11:06:23 AM »


You do realize that I've actually held one in my hot little hands, don't you? I even got to dry fire it. (Nice trigger for any gun, let alone a bullpup!) They do exist.


If I get to hold one at the NRA meeting I'm gonna squeeze the trigger then comment to the DT rep "It doesn't kick as bad as the internet posts say it does". ;-)


~Raptor

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Raptor
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« Reply #63 on: April 21, 2017, 11:12:11 AM »

can't recall where i read it but their estimated yearly revenue is 10.5 million.  this might be a reasonable estimate which would mean all they'd need to do is push 1500-2000 precision rifles yearly if that depending on the build.  yeah marketing costs and so does new equipment but i find it unlikely they've hinged their business on a handful of prototypes.  let's not forget they distribute ammo as well.  sorry frostburg it was never reality to begin with and an unlikely scenario for them i believe.

the reality is...we really dont know what's going on at DT.
If you look at the latest 2015 ATF report.  DT reported 709 rifles built in 2015.  They may be in trouble with the finances with all of the engineering and development time the MDR is taking.  How many years have they been saying they will be shipping next month?Huh?

lol...the two links below should put this to bed.  a company who's turned down a 15 million dollar contract in recent years and just added a contract with the czech MoD for 3 million...surely among others...one would guess isn't struggling or at the very least is sustainable.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/01/05/desert-tech-utah-gunmaker-turns-down-15-million-deal-with-pakistan.html

http://www.janes.com/article/68822/czech-armed-forces-order-desert-tech-hti-sniper-rifles


I remember when they turned down the Paki order and had/have MUCH RESPECT for Nick and the DT team because of that.  However that was way back in 2013 (news posted it in 2014 about the time that the MDR first showed it's glimmer at Shot.


~Raptor

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Raptor
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« Reply #64 on: April 21, 2017, 11:43:01 AM »

I know many have ragged on the OP for this post. Personally I think discussions are a good thing. I'd prefer it be in the Group buy area to keep it out of the public arena and in an area that is for those with skin in the game, however that is just my opinion.

What I do find comical as some find this post are the following:
1) IF they were to seek bankruptcy protection folks claiming they'd have their money back.  The purpose for companies to file for protection is so they don't have to pay their debtors (or pennies on the dollar to secured debtors of which we are NOT).

2) Those claiming it can't or won't happen because the MDR is not their only line of products. Let's not forget
- They added on to existing buildings
- Purchased (or leased) several CNC milling machines (way expensive)
- Purchased other equipment
- Paid for training on the new equipment (or added staff)
  -- It's possible that training was included in the overall price but those in the know, know that nothing is free and the costs are built into the price in advance.
- Paid a lot for R&D, and more D, with some more D, and some more post production D[2] (D squared)
- Dedicated many staff members to the endeavor of designing, building, testing (all times 30) for the MDR and not other products
- Probably made financial commitments to investors (bankers/loans) on a payback schedule based on MDR sales. So they may have been using the deposits for those reasons, many people requesting refunds will require the funding from elsewhere (aka Rob Peter to pay Paul).

3) If another company buys the patent, or the company, I'm sure (yes my opinion based on experience) would come without prior burdens of DT commitments on the MDR. This can and has been done many times even years later.
 - Think about AT&T purchasing a smaller Bell many years ago but reneging on the smaller Bell's pension and retirement benefits, YES even for those retired years before the purchase. They justified it to the court that they could not purchase the smaller Bell with those previous financial commitments so it was approved. Granted Utility companies are a different ballgame but that is not the only incidence of something like this happening.

This has not been a cheap endeavor for them and I know the constant delays have to be hurting them even if it does not bury them.

Like I have said previously I am gambling on the MDR, but I would recommend other's to do the same especially if you have had money in the game for many months. If you paid the minimum and it will break you to loose, that was a bad choice IMO. If you paid full price then you definitely should not break you to loose it.
- I'm not saying you will loose it but everything in life is a gamble (like using Apple or Droid phones and thinking you're not seriously exposed).

My $0.02 cents (pre-tax of course; after tax it ain't worth $h!t)


~Raptor



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Glorfindel
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« Reply #65 on: April 21, 2017, 01:54:46 PM »

On the subject of Desert Tech solvency...

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/04/21/idex-2017-caracal-license-producing-sig-p320-distributing-desert-tech-sniper-rifles/       

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Nomad07
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« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2017, 01:23:03 PM »

Well since last julyish...so 11 months?Huh? That is suddenly years?

The earliest estimated date I recall is Christmas 2015. They've clearly and repeatedly underestimated how long it would take to finish the MDR.

And did anyone pay money for a christmad 2015 release?Huh? The constant complaining about how money has been tied up for "years" is what is constantly being repeated, making it sound like DT took peoples money in 2014 and havr been sitting on it. Far as im concerned, their "official realease" was the one they stated AFTER they took money...whivh is june/july 2016.

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Chief Master
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« Reply #67 on: April 22, 2017, 05:28:21 PM »

Far as im concerned, their "official realease" was the one they stated AFTER they took money...whivh is june/july 2016.

I would argue that the "official release" you're talking about would be what the company claimed AS they were taking preorders...which was that MDRs were currently "in production."
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hillbillyjim
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« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2017, 07:41:07 PM »

If they were desperate they could have just released an inferior product then did a recall later just to get the ball moving.  I love that they want to send out a finished product that won't have a bunch of bugs.  I hate that I paid half the money over a year ago with bad communication from all parties involved.  I just bought another scar I might cancel my preorder.  But I am going to wait for news first coming out of NRA show
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Nomad07
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« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2017, 12:37:05 PM »

Far as im concerned, their "official realease" was the one they stated AFTER they took money...whivh is june/july 2016.

I would argue that the "official release" you're talking about would be what the company claimed AS they were taking preorders...which was that MDRs were currently "in production."

Sure, u can see it that way no biggie... but people are having fits and saying sht like, "delayed for years" and "DT has had peoples money for years without a product..." etc. Thats my issue, ya its late, but damn, its not 3 years overdue like some are hyperventillating about
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Grifter
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« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2017, 01:16:15 PM »

http://www.guns.com/2015/07/07/shaping-up-desert-techs-mdr-bullpup-in-2015/

"In the 18 months since the MDR was announced the team has been hard at work testing the design and making improvements based on independent user feedback, and now Desert Tech is setting a target for delivery: six months on the outside, potentially sooner. In order to meet that deadline, Desert Tech hired on SIG Sauer developer Cory Newman."

Clearly states "DELIVERY: Six months, possibly sooner"
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2017, 08:22:13 PM »

http://www.guns.com/2015/07/07/shaping-up-desert-techs-mdr-bullpup-in-2015/

"In the 18 months since the MDR was announced the team has been hard at work testing the design and making improvements based on independent user feedback, and now Desert Tech is setting a target for delivery: six months on the outside, potentially sooner. In order to meet that deadline, Desert Tech hired on SIG Sauer developer Cory Newman."

Clearly states "DELIVERY: Six months, possibly sooner"

Don't go Full NY Times on us and selectively quote and parse...  "...Desert Tech is setting a *target* for delivery..." 
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Kurt
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« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2017, 10:01:09 PM »





Don't go Full NY Times on us and selectively quote and parse...  "...Desert Tech is setting a *target* for delivery..." 


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EWTHeckman
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« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2017, 10:13:04 PM »

Far as im concerned, their "official realease" was the one they stated AFTER they took money...whivh is june/july 2016.

I would argue that the "official release" you're talking about would be what the company claimed AS they were taking preorders...which was that MDRs were currently "in production."

Sure, u can see it that way no biggie... but people are having fits and saying sht like, "delayed for years" and "DT has had peoples money for years without a product..." etc. Thats my issue, ya its late, but damn, its not 3 years overdue like some are hyperventillating about

That there is more reason to complain when DT shifts dates after they've taken peoples' money is a fair point. Dates prior to that were much more wishful simply because they were still in active development, which was supposed to have been finished and starting production when they started taking orders.

I just think it's necessary to point out that their problems with date estimates started before then, even if it was less firm.

FYI, I remember seeing a cartoon of a programmer climbing down a chimney with version 2.0 of his software package for Christmas. It turned out to be released nearly 2 years later. 30 years later they're doing amazing things as they continue to expand that software. This is not a problem that's unique to DT, or even just the firearms industry. Short term problems do not necessarily mean total failure is guaranteed.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #74 on: April 23, 2017, 10:27:37 PM »





Don't go Full NY Times on us and selectively quote and parse...  "...Desert Tech is setting a *target* for delivery..." 




No...you did selectively quote what was said; at least be honest enough to admit it.  Or just find something else to pick at and make a crisis out of.
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Kurt
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« Reply #75 on: April 23, 2017, 10:45:51 PM »

Ha, you're a funny man.

To say that I failed to quote the word "Target" and as such this one word completely excuses 2 years of delays. Go f*** yourself.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #76 on: April 24, 2017, 12:17:26 AM »

Ha, you're a funny man.

To say that I failed to quote the word "Target" and as such this one word completely excuses 2 years of delays. Go f*** yourself.

I never said that.  What I did say was that you selectively edited what was said to make it appear as if they said something completely different.  Delays happen and the only real blame I can lay at DT's feet is that they failed to clearly and effectively communicate why things were delayed and do it in a proactive, timely manner, and then made promises too early in the game that they then were unable to keep/meet.

As others have said, it's been a year since they announced a shipping date, and if they ship before June, then they'll be a year late, not two years and not years, based off the original date once they took pre-orders.

As for your ad hominem attack, did it make you feel good?
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Kurt
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« Reply #77 on: April 24, 2017, 01:49:08 AM »

Delays happen and the only real blame I can lay at DT's feet is that they failed to clearly and effectively communicate why things were delayed and do it in a proactive, timely manner, and then made promises too early in the game that they then were unable to keep/meet.

would you deem it logical to think that DT deliberately lied to amass preorders?

MDR Announcements

Jan 20, 2016
"Desert Tech has announced that it has begun production of the much anticipated Micro Dynamic Rifle (MDR)..."
"Orders are expected to ship to dealers 2nd quarter 2016."

or are you really going to sell us 'delays happen'?  either you truly believe they've got idiots over there running the show or maybe just maybe there's been much more deliberation on their behalf regarding course of action.

oh and KB...the first question was rhetorical.  of course they lied to us.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 01:57:44 AM by HBeretta » Logged
Whoops
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« Reply #78 on: April 24, 2017, 09:08:41 AM »

Delays happen and the only real blame I can lay at DT's feet is that they failed to clearly and effectively communicate why things were delayed and do it in a proactive, timely manner, and then made promises too early in the game that they then were unable to keep/meet.

would you deem it logical to think that DT deliberately lied to amass preorders?

MDR Announcements

Jan 20, 2016
"Desert Tech has announced that it has begun production of the much anticipated Micro Dynamic Rifle (MDR)..."
"Orders are expected to ship to dealers 2nd quarter 2016."

or are you really going to sell us 'delays happen'?  either you truly believe they've got idiots over there running the show or maybe just maybe there's been much more deliberation on their behalf regarding course of action.

oh and KB...the first question was rhetorical.  of course they lied to us.


Kfelt would support DT if they shoved a rotten stick in our hands and said "here's your MDR'. He would compliment the weight savings.
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EWTHeckman
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« Reply #79 on: April 24, 2017, 10:09:10 AM »

Whoops is at it again.  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes

Not cool. Not cool at all.
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