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| | |-+  So it's time to consider the reality of the MDR project
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Author Topic: So it's time to consider the reality of the MDR project  (Read 8391 times)
kfeltenberger
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« Reply #80 on: April 24, 2017, 10:27:14 AM »

Delays happen and the only real blame I can lay at DT's feet is that they failed to clearly and effectively communicate why things were delayed and do it in a proactive, timely manner, and then made promises too early in the game that they then were unable to keep/meet.

would you deem it logical to think that DT deliberately lied to amass preorders?

MDR Announcements

Jan 20, 2016
"Desert Tech has announced that it has begun production of the much anticipated Micro Dynamic Rifle (MDR)..."
"Orders are expected to ship to dealers 2nd quarter 2016."

or are you really going to sell us 'delays happen'?  either you truly believe they've got idiots over there running the show or maybe just maybe there's been much more deliberation on their behalf regarding course of action.

oh and KB...the first question was rhetorical.  of course they lied to us.



Rhetorical question or not, I look for intent, HBeretta.  Did DT *intentionally* lie?  No, I don't think it was intentional, just that circumstance rendered what they said void and the perception then became "DT lied!" 

Yes, delays do happen.  I've been in both hardware development and software development and know that any sort of timeline projection is just that, a projection.  Unexpected things happen, there's scope creep that no one notices because there's no "man on the outside" auditing the process, and then there are act's of God that no one can foresee or forecast that all combine to make any sort of timetable difficult.  That said, I don't accept that "they've got idiots" running the show, but I do believe that what we're seeing is a group that is extremely enthusiastic about what they're doing and just aren't good communicators.  It's easy to get caught up in the little details and lose sight of the bigger picture, which could be part of the problem; solve this little problem and then we'll be good to go!  Only that little problem was simply a stumbling block for you to move forward on two other issues and so on.

Bottom line is that I think they've been communicating in good faith even though they probably should have known/realized that what they were saying was overly optimistic and tempered delivery expectations more. 
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Kurt
kfeltenberger
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« Reply #81 on: April 24, 2017, 10:27:47 AM »

Delays happen and the only real blame I can lay at DT's feet is that they failed to clearly and effectively communicate why things were delayed and do it in a proactive, timely manner, and then made promises too early in the game that they then were unable to keep/meet.

would you deem it logical to think that DT deliberately lied to amass preorders?

MDR Announcements

Jan 20, 2016
"Desert Tech has announced that it has begun production of the much anticipated Micro Dynamic Rifle (MDR)..."
"Orders are expected to ship to dealers 2nd quarter 2016."

or are you really going to sell us 'delays happen'?  either you truly believe they've got idiots over there running the show or maybe just maybe there's been much more deliberation on their behalf regarding course of action.

oh and KB...the first question was rhetorical.  of course they lied to us.


Kfelt would support DT if they shoved a rotten stick in our hands and said "here's your MDR'. He would compliment the weight savings.

Here's your sign, Whoops...
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Kurt
INV136
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« Reply #82 on: April 24, 2017, 11:30:33 AM »

Haters gonna hate. Roll Eyes That's what they do. Sometimes you just have to ignore them and let them vent so maybe one day they will get over it. Wink
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HBeretta
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« Reply #83 on: April 24, 2017, 11:59:57 AM »

Haters gonna hate. Roll Eyes That's what they do. Sometimes you just have to ignore them and let them vent so maybe one day they will get over it. Wink

lol...>"haters gonna hate"...INV136 you need to learn some rhetoric dude instead of taking everything at face value.  hell you can't even pick up on when ppl are joking around or not in these threads.  

debating that DT lied...how the f#%k does that make anyone a hater?  or are you buying into the whole "we've started production" over a year ago rolling out a preorder program with the announcement and here we are over a year later.  if you're that gullible then let me borrow $2500...i promise i'll pay you back.  

lol...haters...dude at least make the effort to read through an entire thread instead of cherry picking a phrase and jumping to an idiotic statement.   screw loose

« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 11:53:27 PM by HBeretta » Logged
kfeltenberger
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« Reply #84 on: April 24, 2017, 12:41:49 PM »


lol...haters...dude at least make the effort to read through an entire thread instead of cherry picking a phrase and jumping to an idiotic statement.   screw loose


Given the level of vitriol that's been directed at me, HBeretta, I agree with INV136.  It's ok to disagree, but it's not ok to be disagreeable, and that's what some are turning this into.  I don't mind the back and forth, even some *good natured* ribbing, but some people are taking it beyond that to direct personal attacks and that sort of ruins it for everyone when it devolves like that.
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Kurt
BrianK
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« Reply #85 on: April 24, 2017, 12:57:30 PM »

Sometimes it's difficult to know if someone is joking from the printed word. That's exactly why emoticons were developed, but not everyone uses them. That just leaves others to fill in emotion as they wish. It's not up to the reader to somehow divine what was intended for emotion, it's up to the writer to do so.
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o2mover
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« Reply #86 on: April 24, 2017, 03:00:14 PM »

Habitual complainer,  self proscribed judge and jury,  rabble-rouser,  demagogue,  someone who stands to cast the first stone,  troublemaker, unproductive, agitator,  provocateur,  inexperienced, unforgiving, misguided, etc.......
some words that may be used toward participants in this thread.
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« Reply #87 on: April 24, 2017, 03:32:42 PM »

Just to be clear for the nerds who dont realize this, I have a problem with DT. I am actually very excited about the MDR and want one, but I think DT has bad business practices.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #88 on: April 24, 2017, 04:13:59 PM »

Sometimes it's difficult to know if someone is joking from the printed word. That's exactly why emoticons were developed, but not everyone uses them. That just leaves others to fill in emotion as they wish. It's not up to the reader to somehow divine what was intended for emotion, it's up to the writer to do so.

Brian likewise just as easy to know someone IS through written statements, i'm sure you'd agree.  My comment to INV136 wasn't generalized...was solely directed at INV136 which is pretty obvious.  dude made a disparaging comment towards myself and another quoting us both on loose hypotheticals...you bet i'll voice my opinion.



 

  
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 04:16:36 PM by HBeretta » Logged
HBeretta
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« Reply #89 on: April 24, 2017, 04:36:47 PM »


lol...haters...dude at least make the effort to read through an entire thread instead of cherry picking a phrase and jumping to an idiotic statement.   screw loose


Given the level of vitriol that's been directed at me, HBeretta, I agree with INV136.

i just found his self-righteous 'high road' stance entertaining...suggesting haters should be ignored...until in his case...he snaps and starts calling those haters..."dumbass antifa# trolls" when taking what was written out of context.

i don't disagree with your statement that sh!t has been slung your way.  you've been a good sport about it and i'm cool with the content you put down here whether it sparks debate or not...don't have a problem with you.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 04:41:42 PM by HBeretta » Logged
CAP1400
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« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2017, 04:47:39 PM »

The way I see it, a lot of people have legitimate gripes with DT, given their shoddy practices these past few years. Don't dismiss anyone who complains as just "haters bringing down the mood".

And just in case someone brings up "some people will never be satisfied", those people are in the minority. The majority of detractors are legitimately pissed and will probably calm down when they get their MDR.
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Whoops
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« Reply #91 on: April 24, 2017, 07:00:40 PM »

I'm pretty sure I'll be satisfied, with the MDR, but I thinK that DT and other companies should be looking at this and thinking about how to avoid it in the future. One big point- stop with saying that your new rifle is 'in production', when it clearly isn't. Stop advertising your rifle at 7.1lbs and only change it all over when you get called out on it. Do not advertise a rifle at 7.1 lbs if that is just your hope.
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spector762
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« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2017, 07:15:16 PM »

To be quite honest dt will have to completely f*** up the mdr up to In order to be on the level of a keltech tavor or x95
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EWTHeckman
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« Reply #93 on: April 25, 2017, 12:09:56 AM »

I'm pretty sure I'll be satisfied, with the MDR, but I thinK that DT and other companies should be looking at this and thinking about how to avoid it in the future. One big point- stop with saying that your new rifle is 'in production', when it clearly isn't. Stop advertising your rifle at 7.1lbs and only change it all over when you get called out on it. Do not advertise a rifle at 7.1 lbs if that is just your hope.

The clearest example of DT's lousy communications came from John during Shot Show 2016 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dniw8uOaFU8 (Interestingly, this was while being interviewed by Hank Strange. Why does DT do the worst job of shooting themselves in the foot during his interviews?)

At 0:25, John states that the rifle he's holding is built from production parts.

At 0:42 he says that would be "the production, delivery model."

At 5:26 he mentions that they're not finished with the optics mount design.

At 6:10 he mentions that they still have to do drop tests, so the trigger might change.

At 9:18 he says the "target weight" on the .308 is about 7.2 pounds and that they were still working to "trim it up". (This means it was always heavier than 7.1 pounds.)

In short, saying that it was in production even though they were still making changes and still needed to do testing was bad, very bad. Advertising their dream weight instead of the actual weight of the finalized design was also bad.

Let's not forget the insanely optimistic 2nd quarter date which he did mention (but I didn't note) that was a companywide black eye. And my personal pet complaint: shipping the 5.56 and .308 versions simultaneously, until "oh wait, not!"

They fully deserve the publicity black eyes that they have earned. My problem with the goings on on this board is when complaints are taken far beyond what they actually have done, taking the most negative spin possible on neutral statements or "this is real life" events, blowing up pebbles in the road into 30-ton boulders, and making insanely speculative, and downright nasty remarks like the "rotten stick" slap.

I'm with you in that DT's reputation has taken a well deserved beating in my own view, too. But I'm still looking forward to it finally shipping. Until that happens, I would rather focus on cool stuff, continue doing cool stuff, and learning new stuff than on beating dead horses into glue and making everything in sight a sticky mess.
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Siris
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« Reply #94 on: April 25, 2017, 02:27:41 AM »

I will now respond to this thread with an interpretive dance





and i'm done
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What ever happened to Democrat meaning drunken partying and pistol duels on the white house lawn, beating your would be assassin so senseless your security has to protect them from you, and one of your only two regrets is that you didn't kill your own vice president and running mate.
EWTHeckman
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« Reply #95 on: April 25, 2017, 09:28:45 AM »

IMHO, the most likely reason the MDR would not have made it to market was if it didn't ship before the Wicked Witch of Washington had won the election. It would surprise me if DT was not also worried about that possibility.

Fortunately, we dodged that particular bullet so it's still legal for DT to make and sell them to us average citizens serfs. I do expect them to ship eventually.
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Rick53
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« Reply #96 on: April 25, 2017, 10:26:03 AM »

IMHO, the most likely reason the MDR would not have made it to market was if it didn't ship before the Wicked Witch of Washington had won the election. It would surprise me if DT was not also worried about that possibility.

Fortunately, we dodged that particular bullet so it's still legal for DT to make and sell them to us average citizens serfs. I do expect them to ship eventually.
They must see in the meantime they are loosing all kinds of Market Share to other manufactures like IWI,Keltec,FN etc. Theeir lack of response to threads like this seems to tell part if not the REST of THE STORY>
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becket
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« Reply #97 on: April 25, 2017, 03:05:18 PM »

I work at a fund that has a vcap department as well as trading (long/short equity, swaps, exotic options, other derivs), and while I am not in the vcap side, I have seen a lot of "side projects" that bankrupt private co's. Just because their mature product line is successful doesn't mean that they aren't underwater on funding the new project. It's not as though there are distinct funding sources... there are not a lot of funding sources for a firm like DT. It's not as tough they have access to receivables financing. So basically they have one general fund for accounting and all A/R flows through it.

As stated previously; they could have rolled out beta-guns and they did not. Shows the level of commitment.

Personally, I'd love to have one but I never buy Gen1 of anything.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 08:48:58 PM by becket » Logged
CAP1400
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« Reply #98 on: April 25, 2017, 04:25:26 PM »

I do expect them to ship eventually.

Well that's a given. The real kicker is when and with how many more delays  Wink
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Daring 6
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« Reply #99 on: April 25, 2017, 08:50:35 PM »

I work at a fund that has a vcap department as well as trading (long/short equity, swaps, exotic options, other derivs), and while I am not in the vcap side, I have seen a lot of "side projects" that bankrupt private co's. Just because their mature product line is successful doesn't mean that they aren't underwater on funding the new project. It's not as though their are distinct funding sources... At firms like DT; there aren't a lot of financing options. It's not as tough they have access to receivables financing. So basically they have one general fund for accounting and all A/R flows through it.

As stated previously; they could have rolled out beta-guns and they did not. Shows the level of commitment.

Personally, I'd love to have one but I never buy Gen1 of anything.

Hello " Becket "  Smiley

That was my personal point of view also about purchasing a Gen 1 of anything ( including firearms ) , and when I made that exact statement in another thread up here , boy did they go after me ! They lopped off my head and handed it back to me on a platter !

Perhaps the " chickens are coming home to roust here " . It will be sad if DT does declare bankruptcy , or go under . A lot of good people up here will be out a lot of big bucks , and will have learned a hard lesson , unfortunately .  Cool
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