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Author Topic: Tavor vs AR15 article  (Read 1904 times)
BoulderTroll
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« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2017, 01:28:59 AM »

I don't necessarily believe that a person needs to be Travis Haley or a member of Delta Force to have expertise on a topic of weapons and tactics. If an individual makes objectively reasonable observations about a topic through personal experience then they deserve valid consideration, regardless of their 'name recognition' or military pedigree.  People in the gun community tend to be overly obsessed with their idols or status at times.


I agree with you that the hero worship in the gun community is pretty comical.  And I'm not just arguing for the sake of argument, but when it comes to opinions on a weapon system, I draw the line at people who have never carried it as a "weapon".  I don't require someone to be Delta or FBI HRT to give them credence, a simple PFC who has been downrange will have plenty of respect from me.  I just have a hard time listening to "tactical" opinions from someone who has never carried a gun in harms way.  Maybe "opinion" is the wrong word...I mean when someone, as in this article, is trying to pass themself off as a kind of expert on the subject.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 02:00:04 AM by BoulderTroll » Logged
Frostburg
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« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2017, 09:36:00 AM »

I don't necessarily believe that a person needs to be Travis Haley or a member of Delta Force to have expertise on a topic of weapons and tactics. If an individual makes objectively reasonable observations about a topic through personal experience then they deserve valid consideration, regardless of their 'name recognition' or military pedigree.  People in the gun community tend to be overly obsessed with their idols or status at times.


I agree with you that the hero worship in the gun community is pretty comical.  And I'm not just arguing for the sake of argument, but when it comes to opinions on a weapon system, I draw the line at people who have never carried it as a "weapon".  I don't require someone to be Delta or FBI HRT to give them credence, a simple PFC who has been downrange will have plenty of respect from me.  I just have a hard time listening to "tactical" opinions from someone who has never carried a gun in harms way.  Maybe "opinion" is the wrong word...I mean when someone, as in this article, is trying to pass themself off as a kind of expert on the subject.

I agree.
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Brianschwarm
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« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2017, 05:50:50 PM »

I think the tavor and the x95 are both really neat concepts, but the weight when you compare an AR15 to the x95 is drastically different (barrel length being the same) even after I took the thick butt pad off for the thin one, and got the short tail and fore end.  That weight is a big deal in the outdoors where the compactness of the tavor doesn't matter.  There's pros and cons to both, but honestly if I were to grab one and run right now, it would be the AR.  I really want a bullpup to come out that is lighter than what we are seeing.
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BoulderTroll
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« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2017, 07:16:13 PM »

I think the tavor and the x95 are both really neat concepts, but the weight when you compare an AR15 to the x95 is drastically different (barrel length being the same) even after I took the thick butt pad off for the thin one, and got the short tail and fore end.  That weight is a big deal in the outdoors where the compactness of the tavor doesn't matter.  There's pros and cons to both, but honestly if I were to grab one and run right now, it would be the AR.  I really want a bullpup to come out that is lighter than what we are seeing.

You have to keep in mind, Brian, that the Tavor and X95 are long piston weapons.  So to compare it to a standard AR is not really a fair comparison.  The weight is closer when you start comparing it to a piston AR, such as the HK416 or SIG 516.  I owned the SIG, and with all the weight out front it felt a TON heavier than my Tavor.  The Tavor weighs a fair amount for slinging, but not for shouldering.  I can hold a Tavor at high ready for far longer than I could even the lightest AR.  As for slinging, it could be worse...we could be carrying around an M249.  
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Hivedr.
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« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2017, 08:05:49 PM »

I think the tavor and the x95 are both really neat concepts, but the weight when you compare an AR15 to the x95 is drastically different (barrel length being the same) even after I took the thick butt pad off for the thin one, and got the short tail and fore end.  That weight is a big deal in the outdoors where the compactness of the tavor doesn't matter.  There's pros and cons to both, but honestly if I were to grab one and run right now, it would be the AR.  I really want a bullpup to come out that is lighter than what we are seeing.

The weight? That is only brought up by folks that do not shoot and move, repeat and repeat again and again. Once you start working with an X95 / Tavor (or bullpups in general) you will quickly see just how fast you were getting over worked with an AR even a light weight one. What advantages that slightly lighter AR offers even "outdoors" is quickly lost once one starts moving through tight / dense terrain needing to use one hand to push through over or under brush, climb over rocks, open/close a gates or any thousand things one needs to use a free hand for all while keeping a rifle shouldered an ready to engage a threat.

Simply put the X95/Tavor are practically as easy to maneuver and shoot one handed as a pistol two handed, but with rifle performance. This is not so with the typical light weight 16" AR or other 16" barreled MSR unless you are a "gym rat" and even then it gets fatiguing fast. 

All that said having a quality, properly set up AR at the front of the safe as your go to rifle is no loss. Even I keep my favorite AR at the front of my safe. Been it that ranking for 35 years and will be there until.......well until. Why not the X95/ Tavor, because after years of training with the AR it is ingrained/burned into my memory. Though just to the side of my AR sits an X95, a spot it knocked my
FAL from.
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Hox013
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« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2017, 12:28:31 AM »

stating the Tavor is more sealed and thus keeps more fouling in the rifle, thus making it less reliable doesn't add up to me. Long stoke piston system vs direct impingement. The fouling is going into the piston head, not into the action with the Tavor. I've shot thousands of rounds through the x95. The bolt never takes more than a wipe down. Reliability, in my experience, isn't hampered by carbon fouling unless it's dumped into the breach/bolt face.

Also from my experience, a dry AR can be picky. I b**** at my department heads all the time for leaving us bone dry AR's in the cruisers, god forbid we need them. I know, again from just my experience, that my Tavor runs smoother without a pre-range lube than my AR (BCM).

I'd take either one to war need be, but I don't see any way to consider the AR more reliable than the Tavor. Unless you get grit wayyyyy inside into the trigger action bars (highlighted in InRange TV's ridiculous mud test).

Again, just a cop with an expensive hobby. So what do I know. I clean my weapons and maintenance them properly to ensure they work if I need them. I've had no real problem with either system.
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