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Author Topic: Questions (for Desert Tech)  (Read 3734 times)
MikeSmith
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« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2017, 04:41:15 PM »

So a sample size of 1 is all that matters?  There were probably at least 50 snarky and negative comments on that post before DT started deleting them.  I think they were coming from more than one person.  Maybe 1 or 2 were from actual buyers, if I had to guess.

If somebody really did have money in the game, they certainly have a right to ask questions.  They have the right to say whatever they want on the internet.  And they have the right to ask for their money back if they are tired of waiting.  If they say something in a social media space owned by DT that , DT also has the right to delete their comments if they don't consider them acceptable, and stop them from doing it again.

I don't know why you guys think that DT is just supposed to sit back and let people ruin its public image without trying to fight back.  You have the right to free speech.  You don't have the right to be heard.
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Grifter
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« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2017, 04:54:56 PM »

SoI don't know why you guys think that DT is just supposed to sit back and let people ruin its public image without trying to fight back.  You have the right to free speech.  You don't have the right to be heard.

MikeSmith, you really are delusional.

It is called customer relations, it is something successful companies practice and become proficient at. All companies that deal with high volumes of customers have to deal with questions and criticism. Don't alienate your paying customers, answer ALL questions to the best of your abilities, take criticism in stride with a professional manner. Normally small businesses will devote a person to social media at least for part of their time, this keeps the customer base happy and questions answered. Answering questions will often times suppress criticism. You don't just throw up a wall to the public saying either love us or we will silence you.

I am assuming you are a mature adult, that you have had to do some sort of business dealings in your life and that you understand that every person has a right to be treated fairly and justly? Assuming  as you put it "only 1 or 2 people" were paying customers is moronic at best. They should be treating EVERY person as if they were a paying customer or a POTENTIAL paying customer.
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EWTHeckman
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« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2017, 05:06:52 PM »

I don't know why you guys think that DT is just supposed to sit back and let people ruin its public image without trying to fight back.  You have the right to free speech.  You don't have the right to be heard.

Nor do they have the right to take over someone else's soapbox, which is what was being done.
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BrianK
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« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2017, 05:08:14 PM »

Grifter and Mike Smith, you're both right IMO.

But understand that DT is a small company and they're shooters and gun builders. They probably have no one who can handle PR well. It certainly wouldn't surprise me to find that was the case. Heck, just look around at the shooting forums, how many barely functioning in society people have you both run across on them? Heck, it's like herding cats at times! It's surprising that the gun forums function at all, or so I tend to think at times. I understand the concern when someone has $ invested, but try to look at it from their side also. They're doing the best they can with what they have. They're about guns, not stroking people and they're a small shop. If the MDR is all they say it will be that's enough for me. But I'm a late comer to buying one so I don't have the frustration that someone who's been waiting 2 years has pent up.

 I also suggest that if folks don't like it that they cancel their orders and get their money back. That way I won't have so long to wait for mine.  Evil   Grin
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MikeSmith
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« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2017, 05:11:17 PM »

I'll assume you haven't been around here long enough to hear me complain several times about how incompetent DT has been in regards to customer relations over the last few years, but we can find plenty of agreement on that.  That's not what we're talking about here.

If you didn't follow the saga over the weekend, basically DT posted a link to an article about the MDR being an Editor's pick for new guns of 2017, or something like that.  It immediately got deluged with people mocking the idea of the MDR actually getting delivered in 2017.  At first it was kinda funny, but so many people started piling on that it got ridiculous.  That's when Nick obviously got annoyed and told his people to put a stop to it.

It's not disrespecting customers, it's just doing what you have to do sometimes in the wonderful world of the Internet

MikeSmith, you really are delusional.

It is called customer relations, it is something successful companies practice and become proficient at. All companies that deal with high volumes of customers have to deal with questions and criticism. Don't alienate your paying customers, answer ALL questions to the best of your abilities, take criticism in stride with a professional manner. Normally small businesses will devote a person to social media at least for part of their time, this keeps the customer base happy and questions answered. Answering questions will often times suppress criticism. You don't just throw up a wall to the public saying either love us or we will silence you.

I am assuming you are a mature adult, that you have had to do some sort of business dealings in your life and that you understand that every person has a right to be treated fairly and justly? Assuming  as you put it "only 1 or 2 people" were paying customers is moronic at best. They should be treating EVERY person as if they were a paying customer or a POTENTIAL paying customer.
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EWTHeckman
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« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2017, 05:16:55 PM »

It is called customer relations, it is something successful companies practice and become proficient at.

I've complained plenty about DT's poor marketing. But you are out of line here. The customer is not always right. If a customer is being unreasonable and harming both the business and other customers, a business has every right to disinvite them as customers.

If someone invades your store and starts badmouthing your company and making a full-on nuisance of themselves and brings a bunch of their friends along to do the same, you have every right to call the police to get them removed. What was going on at their Facebook page was very much the same thing. They had every right to defend themselves against harassment. Unfortunately, given the specifics, they easily could have caught more reasonable commenters in clearing out what was clearly verbal poison.

This kind of Wormtongue garbage and flaming has already been discussed plenty of times on this forum. Stirring the pot constantly poisons everything. I'm sick of it. Knock it off.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2017, 05:18:11 PM »

So all they are doing is messing up the company's image...

they're messing up the company's image?  oh DT beat them to that...
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Siris
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« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2017, 05:22:13 PM »

LOUD NOISES!!!!

ok I'm done
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What ever happened to Democrat meaning drunken partying and pistol duels on the white house lawn, beating your would be assassin so senseless your security has to protect them from you, and one of your only two regrets is that you didn't kill your own vice president and running mate.
Grifter
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« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2017, 05:35:15 PM »

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HBeretta
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« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2017, 06:30:55 PM »

LOUD NOISES!!!!

ok I'm done

i'm sorry but that sh!t had me laughing...can't top the 1st one.
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Sawdustshot
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« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2017, 11:25:17 PM »

If someone invades your store and starts badmouthing your company and making a full-on nuisance of themselves and brings a bunch of their friends along to do the same, you have every right to call the police to get them removed. What was going on at their Facebook page was very much the same thing.

This is a misconception I often see. DT ultimately doesn't own the DT Facebook page, Facebook does. The closest analogy I can think of is a bulletin board in a public space, where people are allowed to put up fliers. Sure, you "own" your flier, but the owner of the board is the only one who actually has any rights to the board and its content. It's a bit like if people here could censor the threads they start instead of just the moderators.

Either way, I can only see this hurting DT in the end. I know it has made me again reconsider getting an Echo, if they even ever make them.
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MikeSmith
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« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2017, 12:20:12 PM »

This is a misconception I often see. DT ultimately doesn't own the DT Facebook page, Facebook does. The closest analogy I can think of is a bulletin board in a public space, where people are allowed to put up fliers. Sure, you "own" your flier, but the owner of the board is the only one who actually has any rights to the board and its content. It's a bit like if people here could censor the threads they start instead of just the moderators.

Either way, I can only see this hurting DT in the end. I know it has made me again reconsider getting an Echo, if they even ever make them.


Not to quibble, but... I disagree.  Smiley

On Facebook, Facebook itself is the equivalent of the city.  Facebook owns the city, but gives you your own private space within the city.  You have the right to control what happens inside your space, but you don't have control over what happens elsewhere in the city.

Sure, I don't technically own my personal FaceBook space--they can take it away from me at any time, I didn't pay for it, etc.  But as long as they allow me to possess it, they tell me I can control what happens there.
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LockeCTH
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« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2017, 03:06:30 PM »

Not to quibble, but... I disagree.  Smiley

On Facebook, Facebook itself is the equivalent of the city.  Facebook owns the city, but gives you your own private space within the city.  You have the right to control what happens inside your space, but you don't have control over what happens elsewhere in the city.

Sure, I don't technically own my personal FaceBook space--they can take it away from me at any time, I didn't pay for it, etc.  But as long as they allow me to possess it, they tell me I can control what happens there.

To be even more specific, in this instance Facebook has explicitly given DT, as the page administrator, the ability to police the content that is posted by themselves and others on their page. So this discussion is a little moot - merely by policing comments and removing ones they deem too inflammatory, DT is demonstrating that Facebook has given them the authority and the tools to perform those very actions.

The question of whether or not DT should do that, and to what degree, is one worth discussing, but I haven't seen anything out of line from DT yet. Sometimes their posts aren't as helpful or as professional as they could be, but I haven't seen anything I'd say is outright wrong though. But when literally the same person or two post the farting unicorn in reply to EVERY SINGLE POST of DTs, even posts unrelated to the MDR, I'd say they're well within their rights to start moderating those comments.
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LockeCTH
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« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2017, 03:16:42 PM »

The customer is not always right. If a customer is being unreasonable and harming both the business and other customers, a business has every right to disinvite them as customers.

I've always hated that idea. I realize that, for a variety of reasons, it's usually better to err on the side of the customer, but this outlook that "the customer is always right" empowers certain people to get away with some ridiculous crap, and treat employees horribly in the process.

As a customer, if my actions or expectations are out of line, I'd much prefer somebody to (respectfully) let me know than to try and bend over backwards for my every whim.
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2017, 09:32:16 PM »

The customer is not always right. If a customer is being unreasonable and harming both the business and other customers, a business has every right to disinvite them as customers.

I've always hated that idea. I realize that, for a variety of reasons, it's usually better to err on the side of the customer, but this outlook that "the customer is always right" empowers certain people to get away with some ridiculous crap, and treat employees horribly in the process.

As a customer, if my actions or expectations are out of line, I'd much prefer somebody to (respectfully) let me know than to try and bend over backwards for my every whim.

I taught my service reps that "The customer is always right except when they're wrong, then it's your responsibility to explain to them where they're mistaken and what we can (or are willing) do to help them...and do it diplomatically with a smile on your face."  I've thrown several clients out of the office (and called the police on a couple others when they either became threatening or abusive and wouldn't leave) for their bad behavior and then after discussing it with the GM, cancelling their service and issuing them a refund for any time left on their billing cycle.  Granted, I had people threatening violence, arson, the rape of one of my reps, etc., and it was all recorded, but this issue with DT is really no different in concept, only in the details.

It's really easy to fire off a fiery comment from behind a display and have the smug satisfaction that "you got them!", and expect no repercussions for your bad behavior.  DT is proving them wrong.  Just as any other company would when people go overboard trashing them or their products.
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Kurt
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« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2017, 12:05:24 AM »

I don't have any problem with a private business policing up their obvious troll problem, but the issue I do have is when they take it a bit too far and it affects otherwise innocent people. Mike Trance, who posted earlier in this thread, said he didn't even say anything rude in his post on DT's FB page. I haven't seen the post in question, but he didn't come in here ranting and raving or coming off as some lacking in self control and decency. That's the issue I see. Mike is/was? a paying customer. He had an opinion which he thought was reasonable. DT deleted his comment and banned him. In the past, I have asked what I thought were legitimate and honest questions on their FB page which have been either completely ignored(even when readdressed several times) or deleted. It was nothing inflammatory whatsoever. I will defend DT's right to keep the peace, but this is just very very poor business/relations practice. 
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MikeSmith
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« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2017, 09:31:56 AM »

I will readily acknowledge that DT now finds themselves in firefighting mode in large part because they didn't engage in preventative measures previously, otherwise known as maintaining effective and open communications with their fan base!

As we've discussed before, they could have done A LOT better over the last few years.  Now they are dealing with the repercussions and creating more problems for themselves.  It's not an easy situation to deal with, and I'm sure they will be happy to get past it all once they finally start shipping a good product!
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« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2017, 01:17:51 AM »

But understand that DT is a small company and they're shooters and gun builders. They probably have no one who can handle PR well.Evil   Grin

They FOR SURE do not have anyone who can handle PR well.  Nor does it seem DT has ever tried to bring in the adult supervision they obviously need.  But, I continue to look forward to the most anticipated firearm of 2018...and all of the PR mistakes, obfuscations, lies (?) and delays that will continue to come.

Also, plus 1 for the LOUD NOISES comment. 
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