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Author Topic: MDR predictions  (Read 4504 times)
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« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2017, 02:06:42 AM »

Generally, the shorter the barrel the faster the vibration frequency, and the beefier the barrel the same, plus the mass has "holding" characteristic. That's one reason the Garand is so loved by us old farts. But fast vibration frequency contributes to accuracy, as does holding. Conversely, the longer and thinner the barrel the longer the vibration frequency and the less holding, both contributing to less accuracy.
Eh, there's also a reason there are no real competitors in the PRS world using 16" barrels. I think the discussion on "vibrations" and "barrel harmonics" is largely s***. Not saying they don't contribute to accuracy (I'd argue that longer or shorter vibration frequency doesn't matter, but repeatability does), but I think the discussion around them is almost completely uninformed. However, an area it is easy to be informed about is what equipment folks who are printing tiny groups at 500+ meters are using. And very few, are using 16" barrels. I will agree that barrel width matters though, and the choice by DT to go with a heavier barrel makes a lot of sense to me.... but not on a 16" barrel. On a barrel that short, I'd be willing to go fairly light, as long as the barrel is of good quality.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2017, 12:05:58 PM »

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/daniel-zimmerman/the-truth-about-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/amp/
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coldboremiracle
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« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2017, 12:53:37 PM »

And very few, are using 16" barrels.

The reason very few are using 16" barrels is about velocity. In order to take advantage of flat shooting low recoil cartridges you need enough barrel to maximize the velocity.
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BrianK
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« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2017, 01:06:11 PM »

Good article HB'. Thanks.
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« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2017, 01:57:18 PM »

And very few, are using 16" barrels.

The reason very few are using 16" barrels is about velocity. In order to take advantage of flat shooting low recoil cartridges you need enough barrel to maximize the velocity.

I know, my point is that having that velocity available to you is important as an aid to a shooter who's gonna reach out beyond 500 meters. Can it be done with less? of course. But velocity is important, because it makes any errors you've made calling out your distance have less of a negative effect.
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coldboremiracle
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« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2017, 03:56:39 PM »

And very few, are using 16" barrels.

The reason very few are using 16" barrels is about velocity. In order to take advantage of flat shooting low recoil cartridges you need enough barrel to maximize the velocity.

I know, my point is that having that velocity available to you is important as an aid to a shooter who's gonna reach out beyond 500 meters. Can it be done with less? of course. But velocity is important, because it makes any errors you've made calling out your distance have less of a negative effect.
Agreed, I must have misunderstood what you were trying to say.
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The first shot, is worth all the rest.

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I work for Desert Tech, happy to help wherever I can.
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« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2017, 04:53:03 PM »

It's called "flat shooting". Taken to it's extreme on one end, the .17 Remington is like a laser (almost) out to 300 yards (it's not a long distance cartridge, firing only a 25 grain "needle' bullet as the "most common" load) and the bullet gets to the target seemingly before the trigger breaks. Going in the other direction is any subsonic load. They have rainbow trajectories. They both have the same acceleration from gravity (32fps/second) so it's all about velocity, 4000+fps vs 1040fps.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2017, 08:02:29 PM »

Good article HB'. Thanks.

Yup.  I'm always torn on this being the school of thought for myself that a longer barrel equals higher velocity equals flatter shots...  of course, the synergy involved...barrel, twist, load...that goes into this.   but then, barrel harmonics or rigidity...  again, i seem to steer towards this notion of this synergy or almagamation of barrel length, load and twist.

Then something like an SRS covert .308 16" barrel grouping .25 MOA better at 100 yds and touching to a 1000 yds easy leaves me scratching my head.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 08:18:47 PM by HBeretta » Logged
MikeSmith
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« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2017, 08:54:01 PM »

Once accuracy gets to the 1 MOA range, I care less about decreasing group sizes and more about increasing repeatability.  That's why I'm so fascinated by the Teludyne StraightJacket system (also known as the Dracos barrel under the Falkor brand).  I'd much rather have a 10 shot 1 MOA group than a .5 MOA 3 shot group.
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BrianK
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« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2017, 11:19:24 PM »

In decades past benchrest shooters would have long and stout barrels to allow them the velocity and the high frequency harmonics. Obviously for a rifle intended to be carried and not shot from the bench things get traded away to gain other attributes. It's been that way for many years; lose something and gain something else.
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Miketrance
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« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2017, 04:24:09 PM »

Make an MDR prediction huh.  Okay I got one, I will have this rifle before I retire.  I'm 32 and already paid through the group buy.  It will just take that long to release it. 
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HBeretta
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« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2017, 05:03:13 PM »

Make an MDR prediction huh.  Okay I got one, I will have this rifle before I retire.  I'm 32 and already paid through the group buy.  It will just take that long to release it. 

so in other words...you think it'll be good, obviously.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2017, 06:22:18 PM »

my focus seems to be trending towards build quality as of late.  it's like comparing my cz p01 omega to my PPQ M2, this being analogous to what the MDR will be to competing platforms in the bullpup genre in my estimation.  the image below just screams quality with it's aluminum frame and steel slide vs the PPQ M2 with polymer frame and steel slide.  of course, this makes the PPQ lighter and it performs just as well.  but there's something alluring about a high quality product, that incidentally performs as well; not implying the M2 isn't a quality product either.  but, just look at the image below...the sheer craftsmanship and quality that just sucks you in as you begin to reach for your wallet and hand over your credit card with the sentiment of..."here take my wallet and give me back however much you think i should have!"  ok you got me...took the handguns out to the range today and when i shot my cz i kept thinking..."damn this is what the MDR is going be like to the others..."  

 
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Steelviper
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« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2017, 10:04:11 AM »

I am through with predictions. Just waiting for the rifle in hand then I will know and see where it stands.

I mean two years or hell even 6 months ago if someone would have predicted it would be 1: over budget, 2: way way over stated delivery date, and 3: overweight by a pound and a half- they would have been called a heretic or a troll or worse by many/ most members including me. So I do not stand in a good place for predictions.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 10:18:16 AM by Steelviper » Logged
HBeretta
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« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2017, 02:30:53 PM »

I am through with predictions. Just waiting for the rifle in hand then I will know and see where it stands.

I mean two years or hell even 6 months ago if someone would have predicted it would be 1: over budget, 2: way way over stated delivery date, and 3: overweight by a pound and a half- they would have been called a heretic or a troll or worse by many/ most members including me. So I do not stand in a good place for predictions.

yeah i've only been really keeping up since last sept/oct and i'm already impatient...couldn't imagine 2 yrs.
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Miketrance
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« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2017, 08:47:35 PM »

my focus seems to be trending towards build quality as of late.  it's like comparing my cz p01 omega to my PPQ M2, this being analogous to what the MDR will be to competing platforms in the bullpup genre in my estimation.  the image below just screams quality with it's aluminum frame and steel slide vs the PPQ M2 with polymer frame and steel slide.  of course, this makes the PPQ lighter and it performs just as well.  but there's something alluring about a high quality product, that incidentally performs as well; not implying the M2 isn't a quality product either.  but, just look at the image below...the sheer craftsmanship and quality that just sucks you in as you begin to reach for your wallet and hand over your credit card with the sentiment of..."here take my wallet and give me back however much you think i should have!"  ok you got me...took the handguns out to the range today and when i shot my cz i kept thinking..."damn this is what the MDR is going be like to the others..."  

 

Should try a Q5 match. That's my competition gun, it runs real nice and is a noticeable step above the regular PPQ
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HBeretta
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« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2017, 10:38:43 PM »


Should try a Q5 match. That's my competition gun, it runs real nice and is a noticeable step above the regular PPQ

eyeing that shadow 2 currently...
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sampitt
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« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2017, 11:10:59 PM »

MDR ringing steel at 600 yds  Shocked https://www.instagram.com/p/BR3_Dy_jzjw/
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 11:13:31 PM by sampitt » Logged
HBeretta
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« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2017, 11:15:11 PM »

link is no bueno
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sampitt
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« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2017, 11:16:18 PM »

link is no bueno

Sorry about that should be fine now
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