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Author Topic: My RDB is sick  (Read 3351 times)
BrianK
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« on: March 12, 2017, 01:04:29 PM »

I fired rounds 28 and 29 with no problems. Then round #30... click. Eject and rechamber, click. The firing pin isn't hitting the primer. I took it apart and it seems OK. Then I noticed the hammer. I released it and eased it forward and it was even more noticeable. The problem travels forward to the springs. I don't think it's supposed to be cattywumpus like that.

This could be an omen, maybe I'm supposed to get an MDR. I can't have an unreliable rifle; that just won't do, and after only 30 rounds. Not a good beginning. But I'd rather find out now that it won't work for me.

So I'll contact Kel-Tec. But it should have been right right out of the box. I'm not accustomed to guns that break.

Edit: I decided. Get the RDB fixed and sell it. Put an MDR on order.

Edit2: Put an MDR on order today with a .300BLK conversion. The conversion just made sense to me. I stripped the RDB back to out of the box status. Now I wait.



« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 05:56:31 PM by BrianK » Logged
Grifter
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« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2017, 06:35:37 PM »

Just out of curiosity, what are the first numbers of your serial? You can leave out the last digit if you have fear of it being known exactly what it is. I am just wanting to figure out what production number your rifle is.

This has happened to a couple rifles that I can think of so far.
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BrianK
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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2017, 07:05:33 PM »

Z0J2x

:-) lucky me.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2017, 08:41:43 PM »

Brian...that's too bad man.  It's a fun gun to shoot.  This seems to be Kel-Tec's achilles' heel.  At least you have the warranty and good customer service to alleviate some of the headache.  good news is you won't have a problem selling it.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 09:06:17 PM by HBeretta » Logged
BrianK
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2017, 11:37:38 PM »

Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, that's what I figure too (easy to sell). I had to give it a try. I still like my sub2000 and have hundreds of rounds through that in competition.

I was told via email that my MDR is expected to ship in Nov'. I assume that means if they start to ship rifles on the current planned schedule. I'm not even going to wonder when they'll ship my .300 BLK conversion. But maybe that'll be easy once they get the 5.56 worked out.
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Grifter
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2017, 12:20:44 AM »

Just my own thoughts on this one...

I would get the warranty fix done, make sure you have the new updated bolt. Then run it through it's paces. Then decide.

I understand not being able to shake distrust in a rifle, hell just seeing your failure had me looking over at mine. So I ran 100 rounds through it today. It ran awesome. I put 60 rounds of 62gr PMC and 40 rounds of Hornady 40gr VMAX varmint express. It ate them both no hitches.

So I started thinking about when I see failures posted in other folks' AR15s, I never get the shadow of doubt looming over my Bushmaster nor my Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf (Both WAY out of warranty, unlike the RDB), so why am I afraid of the RDB. Realistically the failure rate is ridiculously low. If it weren't this forum and thekotg.org would be blowing up with complaints, yet they aren't. Most days they go without anyone saying anything. The last failure on KTOG was a guy that (unfortunately) can't seem to catch a break with his. It happens.

If I were to have a failure, I am not sure it would push me into the MDR. Especially with how DT is handling their failures to produce, and their constant revisions on the actual specs of the MDR, and the lack of communication ( or even their blatant lack of care for their preorder customers). DesertTech also only offers a 3 year (limited) warranty.

This is part of their warranty for the MDR (This section can be used against you to void the warranty if you simply change the muzzle device, put a scope on the rifle, or even a duracoat job. They can even claim they feel you didn't clean the gun exactly as they think you should have, and you would be up a creek. Sans shipping to them of course, because they say that along with any ammunition they fire testing your rifle is on you, and if they feel they don't need to fix the rifle return shipping is on you as well.)
**This warranty is null and void if the firearm has been misused, damaged (by accident or otherwise), fired with hand loaded, reloaded or improper ammunition, fired with an obstruction in the barrel, damaged through failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance as described in the manual accompanying the firearm, or if unauthorized repair or any alteration, including of a cosmetic nature, has been performed on the firearm. This limited warranty does not apply to normal wear and tear of any parts.** 

 I personally can't trust a company that talks to (prepaid) customers in the way they do on their facebook page, a complete lack of professionalism. They seem to have a "bro-patriot" mentality in everything they do.

I hope that the MDR really is the revolutionary bullpup that DT is billing it to be, although they have already revised those expectation a bit. I really hope they are reliable and accurate rifles. At this point in time though, all we have to go off of are preproduction units being shown off on youtube. (for most of us at least) and promises from the bros at DesertTech who can't seem to get anything together.

I wish you the best of luck though.

-Will
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 02:11:54 AM by Grifter » Logged
Grifter
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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2017, 12:39:52 AM »

And just to be clear,

everything I stated is just my own opinion, I am not trying to step on anyone's toes, or make anyone angry. I know there are ALOT of folks that are eager for the MDR and have put down a lot of money and faith on the MDR and DT as a company.

I seriously wish everyone that has the best of luck.

-Will
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HBeretta
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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2017, 11:55:33 AM »

Just my own thoughts on this one...

I would get the warranty fix done, make sure you have the new updated bolt. Then run it through it's paces. Then decide.


was going to say Brian...speaking to what Gifter mentioned about shooting it a bit after Kel-Tec fixes it.  This way you'll have an idea of what it is your curiosity lead you to in the first place, unless 29-30 rounds was enough to give you an idea.  Not defending Kel-Tec here but i guess the reputation and not being battle proven would make one less inclined to trust their product.  Likewise, I've read about issues lesser or worse with IWI, Sig, FN and so on.  Read of a guy who'd just received his Tavor and had double-feed and extraction issues his first time out and had to send back.  The MCX bolt recall and so on, seems there's always something when a new product rolls out.  Yet, with the big names that are battle proven trust seems to stick more so than others.  Of course, shooter experience with certain platforms and companies plays into this as well.  

Again, congrats with the MDR.  I'm reluctant to commit because they're a smaller company than Kel-Tec.  I know Kel-Tec has many more SKUs to keep up with and rifles fully loaded pushing $10k down to their $2.3-2.5k bullpup line...DT, it would seem, won't have the added pressure of producing more affordable product along with keeping up with a wider range of SKUs with many in high demand.  This and how they've handed the MDR roll out makes me wonder what's really going on behind closed doors.  Will they be able to keep up with demand?  Their warranty is nowhere near what Kel-Tec offers and you could interpret that either way (it's because DT's products are good and Kel-Tec's bad) on paper.  Reality is, I'm more inclinded to commit to a lifetime warranty.  I mean Kel-Tec products remain in high demand which tells me a lot of owners don't encounter major issues or fortunately have solid products.  What I'm getting at is what if the MDR isn't as reliable at the high end of the bullpup cost spectrum?  They've struggled to get the MDR out the door, what would it be like if your MDR was faulty and needed servicing?  Would it be another 3 yrs before you got it back?  

I've decided to wait on release and user reviews before I commit to the MDR.  I do have this confidence it'll be a solid product based on how solid their SRS line is.  And they are showing commitment to the public despite how bad they're stumbling with missed deadlines and conflicting information.      


« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 02:00:54 PM by HBeretta » Logged
BrianK
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« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2017, 03:55:15 PM »

No, I haven't fired it much and not at all for accuracy or to satisfy my curiosity about the RDB.

Yeah, I have time to think about it. 8 months if the MDR delivery stays on schedule. What are the chances? :-) Slim IMO.

If it breaks again while I wait it breaks again and I get it fixed again. Strange though, KT contacted me today to see if I was entitled to a FedEx label from KT. Maybe I'm misreading that, but that tells me that the lifetime warranty will require me to ship it to them (on my dime) at some time in the future. So I figure I have 8 months to decide what to do with it.

Strange things seen on the steel cases... There is an area on the neck that was "peeled back" down to the shoulder. The ammo is good as loaded and this is seen after ejection. It's approx' a section 3/16" wide that has been peeled back. It's not every round, just a few. It must have pretty strong chambering to do that to a steel case, but I'd like to find out what's causing it. Maybe it was part of the problem I'm having now.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2017, 05:24:10 PM »

No, I haven't fired it much and not at all for accuracy or to satisfy my curiosity about the RDB.

Yeah, I have time to think about it. 8 months if the MDR delivery stays on schedule. What are the chances? :-) Slim IMO.

If it breaks again while I wait it breaks again and I get it fixed again. Strange though, KT contacted me today to see if I was entitled to a FedEx label from KT. Maybe I'm misreading that, but that tells me that the lifetime warranty will require me to ship it to them (on my dime) at some time in the future. So I figure I have 8 months to decide what to do with it.

Strange things seen on the steel cases... There is an area on the neck that was "peeled back" down to the shoulder. The ammo is good as loaded and this is seen after ejection. It's approx' a section 3/16" wide that has been peeled back. It's not every round, just a few. It must have pretty strong chambering to do that to a steel case, but I'd like to find out what's causing it. Maybe it was part of the problem I'm having now.

i believe kel-tec advises against steel cased ammo in the manual, but i'd have to double check.  but it's the cheaper ammo cost wise and used it just fine through my RDB.  i did adjust my gas on brass initially and steel ran fine so i didn't do anything to gas settings in switching ammo.  when i did adjust on brass it did mangle the brass casings pretty damn bad until i got it right after few rounds.  the manual shows the sear and hammer linkage and in looking at your photo i'm guessing it detached from the hammer on one side.  they've fixed the bolt...wonder if this issue gets ironed out next.  if kel-tec keeps to this platform and they iron out the kinks...may end up being a reliable viable platform.
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BrianK
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« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 06:32:31 PM »

I thought I got the gas worked out a few days before but I guess I didn't because the bolt wouldn't lock open. I was working on getting reliable extraction/ejection with bolt hold open at the time. But the peeling of the neck(s) happened before extraction and during firing. I wonder how much of what I was experiencing with the bolt was because of the mechanical problem? When it comes back I'll crank the gas down and start over.
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BrianK
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2017, 06:24:48 PM »

According to K-T today, another ~2 1/2 weeks until it's back in my hands; so mid Aprilish.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2017, 09:19:31 PM »

According to K-T today, another ~2 1/2 weeks until it's back in my hands; so mid Aprilish.

look at the upside...being a gun hobbyist there's so much to distract you.  my interest always seems to shift from my rifles to my handguns...back and forth constantly.  i was glued to MDR updates to an unhealthy level, but decided to polish one of my handgun barrels which has lead me to installing upgrades...changing the recoil, main & firing pin spring.  along with that...installing a rubber buffer, steel guide rod and figured i'd give dry lube a try.  you get the picture...
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BrianK
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« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2017, 12:30:00 AM »

Oh, I'm not bummed out. I'm just antsy for spring to give my range back to me. Sure, I'd like to have the RDB in hand, but there's absolutely nothing I can do with it, or handguns, or anything else at this time. What I can do is reload for the upcoming comp' season with my known handgun load and that's what I'll do. I can't even develop a load for PCC division since I don't even have my bench for testing loads from. The range I belong to is fully socked in with snow too. I was there this past Saturday to check.

I was just letting folks know what the turn around time was for the RDB. I don't know if that means anything for other K-T firearms.

I'm doing a lot of waiting right now and the RDB could arrive before Mother Nature gives my range back to me. Two (or three)  items aren't scheduled to arrive before November, but I'll be tickled if they arrive sooner.
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BrianK
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2017, 04:57:46 PM »

Spring has sprung even up here in Maine; well, sort of. And with it my range is visible above the snowbanks. With that, even though K-T didn't let me know that my repaired RDB shipped, I received it today. I already have the scope back on it, but I think I'll shoot it for a time with no other mod's. I'm also holding onto the shipping carton, just in case.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2017, 11:18:19 PM »

Spring has sprung even up here in Maine; well, sort of. And with it my range is visible above the snowbanks. With that, even though K-T didn't let me know that my repaired RDB shipped, I received it today. I already have the scope back on it, but I think I'll shoot it for a time with no other mod's. I'm also holding onto the shipping carton, just in case.

 sweet blasting
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BrianK
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« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2017, 01:26:03 AM »

Thanx. Yup. Now I'm waiting for time and weather. That might not happen until Monday but I'll take anything even close to usable.

I'll get back to the gas setting first. That's what I was doing when it pooped itself.  I don't need much to set that... just go out my door.

BTW, right now I'm in bullet pick up mode. As the snowbanks melt back I find the bullets I shot during the winter. I put them in the melt bucket to reclaim the lead at some point and turn them into ingots. (small individual size bread loaf pans used as molds)

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HBeretta
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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2017, 10:23:16 AM »

Thanx. Yup. Now I'm waiting for time and weather. That might not happen until Monday but I'll take anything even close to usable.

I'll get back to the gas setting first. That's what I was doing when it pooped itself.  I don't need much to set that... just go out my door.

BTW, right now I'm in bullet pick up mode. As the snowbanks melt back I find the bullets I shot during the winter. I put them in the melt bucket to reclaim the lead at some point and turn them into ingots. (small individual size bread loaf pans used as molds)



Can't recall if I passed along my experience regarding tuning the gas.  KT explained to me the universal setting is 3.  This was accurate in setting up the gun the first time out.  I remember reducing gas quite a bit to where the rifle wouldn't eject spent casings...worked back to 3 and it was perfect with very slight indentations on the mouths of the spent casings. 

I'm curious as to what gas setting you were on before the gun went down if you recall by comparison.  Also, were you running steel cased?  Excuse the bad memory Brian as I can't recall if you had your gas tuned in perfectly when the gun went down.
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BrianK
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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2017, 10:56:40 AM »

 Grin Hah, you don't remember!? You should have my terrible memory! There is no need to ever apologize to me for not remembering.

I don't remember where I was with the gas, but I was working on it and was close. Actually I think I was to the point where I was going to call it good. Yes, I was shooting steel cased and suppressed. On an AR the suppressor might mean something but I don't know if it does with the RDB.  I have some 5.56 NATO that I'll use this time. I also need to rewatch the video.

One thing I noticed on some of the spent cases... there was a squareish area maybe 1/8" x 1/8"  on the case neck that got peeled back and chambered that way. I saw the cases after firing and clearly the square had been pressed flat. I'd like to figure out what's causing it. I assume it's happening as the cartridge is either  stripped out of the magazine or enters the chamber area. But I've used these mag's in other guns with no problem. I'll figure it out. I can't imagine what that does to chamber pressure, but it won't lower it.
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Fusedspine33
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« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2017, 03:32:53 PM »

Can you post some pictures of the cases? This would be interesting to look at. Did it shave the case or cut all the way through?
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